SONBP2
SONBP2
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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August 28th, 2012 at 9:47:57 AM permalink
I was at Santa Fe last night (again) and we asked about getting a comp for the steak house. Now we rarely asks for comps, but we do play enough to earn them. So we asked for $200 and they told us they could only comp 20% of our losses for the last 60 days. However, for the last 60 days we were actually up about $500 and therefore we were not entitled to any comps based on our table game play. I replied, you see us here 3 to 5 times per week and you know that we rarely ask for comps. The pit boss and host said it didn't matter, they can only base our comps on our last 60 days of play. She then made some comment about how casinos don't let you win more win you are already winning.

I just turned my back and walked away. Maybe I am wrong, but I just don't believe this is how comps are calculated, it may be factor, but not the deciding factor for regular players like us.

Any opinions?
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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August 28th, 2012 at 9:59:45 AM permalink
I was under the impression that comps are given out for two reasons:

To keep a loser coming back.
To keep a winner on property until he gives it back.

Also, comps are supposed to be awared based upon theoretical loss, not actual loss.

On the other hand, it sounds like that casino is sweating every penny.



On the other other hand, if you're consitantly winning, then I can see their point.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:01:01 AM permalink
Comps are usually based on your theoretical losses, not on actuals.
So if you play $10,000 on a game with 5% HE, you should have lost around $500, and the casino would comp you a % of that amount.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:05:55 AM permalink
That would be funny if 1 out of 10 trips I actually win in Vegas and at the end they tell me I need to pay for my room since I won.
kewlj
kewlj
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:12:00 AM permalink
Yes but there are different level used as well. They have different classifications based on your play. At VP a bad player will earn far more comps than a player playing near perfect strategy and almost an even game. A player that plays a 100%+ game will earn even less. Blackjack works the same way. A bad player, playing hunches will earn far more comps than the basic strategy player playing the same amounts. And if they determine you to be playing with an advantage, such as card counting, one of the first counter-measured is discontinuing comps, bonuses and mail offers. Winning sessions play a role in determining if one is an advantage player. That is why it is important to rat hole some chips, to make one look like a losing player. But rat-holing is a tricky move. If they see you doing so, it can have very negative consequenses in that they will project much bigger wins that you actually had.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.
CrapsForever
CrapsForever
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:33:38 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Winning sessions play a role in determining if one is an advantage player. That is why it is important to rat hole some chips, to make one look like a losing player. But rat-holing is a tricky move. If they see you doing so, it can have very negative consequenses in that they will project much bigger wins that you actually had.



Excellent Point by kewlj,

I am not an Advantage Player. I "rathole" chips to stop me from betting too much on a Craps table. Example; I buy in for $500 and "rathole" all my winnings until I lose about half of my buy-in or until I make a 50% profit; whichever comes first. On a 2 day trip to the Midwest a couple of months ago; I broke EVEN after playing Craps for about 16 hours in 2 days. I tried to get my hotel room comped but was told that they could not comp me because I "won" $2,500. The only valid explanation that I can come up with is they must have seen me putting chips in my pockets and assumed I was winning a lot which was clearly not the case.
Craps is the most "Jekyll and Hyde" casino game ever invented!
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:34:06 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

..Blackjack works the same way. A bad player, playing hunches will earn far more comps than the basic strategy player playing the same amounts. And if they determine you to be playing with an advantage, such as card counting, one of the first counter-measured is discontinuing comps, bonuses and mail offers. Winning sessions play a role in determining if one is an advantage player. That is why it is important to rat hole some chips, to make one look like a losing player. But rat-holing is a tricky move. If they see you doing so, it can have very negative consequenses in that they will project much bigger wins that you actually had.


To be frank, most floormen almost never rate a player's quality of play, just the action level, so you generally get comped on only bet size and session length. Win amounts and loss amounts are absolutely irrelevant in this equation and are not factored in; it is based solely on your session length and action level profile. However, if you are caught doing any AP malfeasance, the comps may are wiped.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
1BB
1BB
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:35:55 AM permalink
Rat-holing is important to me as well. Do not rat-hole black chips. If the floor can't account for them they may well charge them to you whether you have them or not. The higher denomination chips will always jibe no matter how they have to do it.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:36:10 AM permalink
Quote: SONBP2

I just turned my back and walked away.

Warn a host that you will Vote with Your Feet ... and if you are not made happy... then cast your ballot.

ALL Comps are based on what money you ACTUALLY RISKED although this is usually an estimated amount. YOU should take your amount risked, your time at play and your game's house edge and calculate your own "THEO". (Theoretical).

Comps are based on your THEO and only receive relatively modest "adjustments" to reflect special circumstances such as big loss, wife standing there looking worried, mistress standing there looking as if she will leave you, first day of four day booking, etc. etc.

Just as you tip a waitress, the casino is expected to "tip" you ... denying you your "tip" because you won money from them is the wrong attitude. Go elsewhere.

If they are not treating you "right"... go to another casino and see what they do.
kewlj
kewlj
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August 28th, 2012 at 10:43:28 AM permalink
I have been told by pit guys that I communicate with, that rat-holing chips alone does not point to one being an AP as many players remove chips from the table for a variety of reasons, such as helping with their own discipline issues or not wanting to have too many chips available for security reasons (robbery), maybe hiding winnings from their spouse, lol . But, the pit is supposed to account for chips that leave each table, especially larger denomination chips. That is the real purpose of color up and why you see frequent countdowns ect. Of course this in nearly impossible to really do as some players enter the game bring chips with them rather than buy-in and some exit without color up. In these instances, that chips are unaccounted for, one common practice is to assign these 'missing' chips to ta player that they see removing chips.
Just say no to 6:5 Blackjack, Continuous shuffle machines and Blackjack the Forum. All are Negative expected value.

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