SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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May 18th, 2011 at 6:51:49 AM permalink
"After scrapping promotional offers such as free rooms to entice gamblers, the owner of the Venetian and Palazzo in Las Vegas reported a 47 percent decline in casino revenue in the first quarter and a 6 percent drop in room revenue as occupancy slipped to 83.9 percent.

Still, some experts say it’s too soon to call Las Vegas Sands’ strategy a flop. The resorts have yet to cycle through multiple seasons that attract different types of customers, from tourists to conventiongoers, said Bill Lerner, a principal with investment analyst Union Gaming Group. “I’d want to see the impact over a full year to understand what the impact is to volume at the property,” Lerner said. “It’s early in the initiative.”

At the Las Vegas properties, slot machine wagering fell 36 percent and table games wagering fell by 13 percent in the first quarter compared with the same period a year ago. Players were especially lucky at the tables during the quarter, which depressed results, the company said.

Promotional spending fell 64 percent in the first quarter, including fewer comps and lower business volume. Although occupancy fell, average daily room rates rose 2 percent to $212. Food and beverage revenue rose 12 percent as convention business improved, and retail, royalty fee and other revenue rose 28 percent."--Remainder here
rdw4potus
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May 18th, 2011 at 7:08:09 AM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza


Players were especially lucky at the tables during the quarter, which depressed results, the company said.



I wonder if that's the whole truth. I'm sure results were depressed, but I doubt it's all a result of luck. It seems like the majority of people taking free room offers would be weak recreational gamblers. Without the offers, maybe that leaves a disproportionately high number of strong advantage/professional gamblers behind to depress table game revenues? For example, I play basic strategy, and my dad does whatever the hell he wants. I'll play at the Venetian when I'm in town, but I've never stayed there. My dad used to stay there for free, but now stays and plays elsewhere. The Venetian keeps my play at a .46% advantage, but loses my dad's play at an approximately 3% advantage.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
FleaStiff
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May 18th, 2011 at 7:10:04 AM permalink
For a while there the room bargains were so generous that one man made six trips to Vegas during which he didn't gamble one red cent but simply enjoyed Pools, Clubs, Gyms, Buffets and Bars. Six trips without setting foot in the casino and he still kept getting offers of 3 and 4 nights comped sent to him.

Is it any wonder the casinos sort of decided to cut back a bit?

What is a marketer to do when customers view sin city as something other than a gambling destination with topless pools? How can a marketer devise a strategy? Heads in beds no longer works.
FarFromVegas
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May 18th, 2011 at 7:21:54 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff


What is a marketer to do when customers view sin city as something other than a gambling destination with topless pools? How can a marketer devise a strategy? Heads in beds no longer works.



That I don't get--I can shop anywhere. I can go to restaurants anywhere. I could go to a club anywhere. I've stayed in hotels all across the country, and there have been a few even nicer than the Venetian, which was decidedly very nice, but a Byzantine labyrinthe to to negotiate. But I can only gamble the way I like to in Vegas or AC, and AC is pretty dumpy outside the casinos and probably inside some of them.

Maybe it's because I live in a casinoless state that I appreciate the gaming opportunity in Las Vegas. I suppose others satisfy their gaming closer to home. There should be free rooms for anyone who lives in a state with no casinos! That's the ticket!
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
Ike
Ike
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May 18th, 2011 at 8:22:50 AM permalink
It costs less than $20 to turn a room at most of these places. If you can't get that back through pools, clubs, gyms, buffets and bars, you deserve to go under. The fact remains, these hotels are not at 100% occupancy, and they are right to virtually give away rooms even if some of these people don't gamble until business starts picking up again. Gambling is, and always will be, the main revenue generator in Vegas, but times are changing. Each visitor's gambling spend is decreasing, and as it does the profit margin on each player shrinks. Still though, there is profit to be had, and if you drive away all the low level gamblers or resort hoppers, you will lose in the long run.
Ike
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May 18th, 2011 at 8:43:44 AM permalink
Vegas started marketing towards the 20-30 club crowd who don't have much disposable income. They are interested in drinking booze, dancing, hanging out by the pool and people watching. This crowd goes where the party is, and for them, the party is in Vegas right now. There are mega-clubs everywhere, and pool parties galore.

Unfortunately for Vegas, once they get to Vegas they spend all their money in leased clubs and by tipping waitresses/bartenders by the pool. The casino doesn't get this money back. If the economy ever picks up again, so will the gambling business, and then and only then will Vegas start marketing to the true gambler again. For now Vegas isn't much more than an overblown club scene.
MathExtremist
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May 18th, 2011 at 9:07:58 AM permalink
Quote: Ike

It costs less than $20 to turn a room at most of these places. If you can't get that back through pools, clubs, gyms, buffets and bars, you deserve to go under. The fact remains, these hotels are not at 100% occupancy, and they are right to virtually give away rooms even if some of these people don't gamble until business starts picking up again. Gambling is, and always will be, the main revenue generator in Vegas, but times are changing.


The last GM I spoke with said his gaming revenue was less than 30% of his property revenue. I don't know whether the other buckets were individually greater than 30%, but it's long been the case that gaming has been less than 50% of property revenues. I haven't looked into the numbers recently, but I would not be surprised at all if the non-gaming convention crowd on expense accounts was worth more to a property's bottom line than the comped low-rollers. Or even the comped low-to-mid table players. Someone playing $25 craps for six hours, passline bet with odds and nothing else, is worth about $75 to a casino. Minus comps and you're under $50, maybe under $25. (Do you get a free room for 6 hours of green passline action?). Is a conventioneer who's paying casino rate for the room and spending corporate money at the restaurants worth more than $50/day? Seems likely to me.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
konceptum
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May 18th, 2011 at 9:20:56 AM permalink
Before joining this website, I had never heard of "RFB". But, I'm also a VERY low rollers. I use my casino cards whenever I play any table games, or the very few slot machines I decided to throw $5 at. I knew that I would get offers in the mail from this "action", and I had always figured that those offers were the only thing made available.

I wonder if any casino would be willing to just be open and honest, and instead of offering free rooms to players who may not spend a dime at their casino, rather offer a room (maybe at a slightly discounted rate) and let them know that their gambling will be rated, and based upon their gambling time, some credit will be applied to their bill at checkout. Then, it wouldn't really matter if the player was a low-roller, playing $5 a hand blackjack for a couple hours and getting maybe $2.50 credited at checkout, or a high roller playing $500 a hand blackjack for 3 days straight and receiving a much larger credit at checkout.

I mean, such a system would avoid giving free room offers to people who don't end up gambling. It would "fairly" credit back to those people who gambled the most at that particular casino. I know that I sometimes end up taking a free room at one casino, but find I do most of my gambling at another casino.

Obviously, I know a casino would never do this. But man, would it be refreshing.
MathExtremist
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May 18th, 2011 at 10:10:19 AM permalink
Quote: konceptum

Before joining this website, I had never heard of "RFB". But, I'm also a VERY low rollers. I use my casino cards whenever I play any table games, or the very few slot machines I decided to throw $5 at. I knew that I would get offers in the mail from this "action", and I had always figured that those offers were the only thing made available.

I wonder if any casino would be willing to just be open and honest, and instead of offering free rooms to players who may not spend a dime at their casino, rather offer a room (maybe at a slightly discounted rate) and let them know that their gambling will be rated, and based upon their gambling time, some credit will be applied to their bill at checkout. Then, it wouldn't really matter if the player was a low-roller, playing $5 a hand blackjack for a couple hours and getting maybe $2.50 credited at checkout, or a high roller playing $500 a hand blackjack for 3 days straight and receiving a much larger credit at checkout.

I mean, such a system would avoid giving free room offers to people who don't end up gambling. It would "fairly" credit back to those people who gambled the most at that particular casino. I know that I sometimes end up taking a free room at one casino, but find I do most of my gambling at another casino.

Obviously, I know a casino would never do this. But man, would it be refreshing.


That's actually the way most comp systems work these days. You sign up for the player's card, your play is tracked and converted to points, and your points are redeemable for cash or credits. More play == more points == more credit. Usually 0.5% to 1.5% or so, depending on various factors. Offers like free rooms or RFB are only for players with track records, though the level of historical play that earns specific levels of comps varies widely from property to property. A relative was Diamond at Harrah's a few years back, not a whale, just a "normal" Diamond player who played $5 VP. He happened to be in the Vicksburg area once so he stayed at the Harrah's there. They bent over backwards for him -- free everything, slot-side attendants, etc. They even had to go into a safe in the back to get a replacement diamond player card.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Ike
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May 18th, 2011 at 10:34:31 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

The last GM I spoke with said his gaming revenue was less than 30% of his property revenue. I don't know whether the other buckets were individually greater than 30%, but it's long been the case that gaming has been less than 50% of property revenues. I haven't looked into the numbers recently, but I would not be surprised at all if the non-gaming convention crowd on expense accounts was worth more to a property's bottom line than the comped low-rollers. Or even the comped low-to-mid table players. Someone playing $25 craps for six hours, passline bet with odds and nothing else, is worth about $75 to a casino. Minus comps and you're under $50, maybe under $25. (Do you get a free room for 6 hours of green passline action?). Is a conventioneer who's paying casino rate for the room and spending corporate money at the restaurants worth more than $50/day? Seems likely to me.



It depends if they are counting comp revenue when calculating those numbers. Comp revenue isn't really revenue since it's basically an offset to comp expense, but may be shown as such on any given report. If you are looking at cash revenue only, gaming is king.
konceptum
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May 18th, 2011 at 10:37:47 AM permalink
I guess what I'm saying is that any comp $ would be applied automatically, and without having to ask. The trip reports that I've read here and other places, and comments from the Wizard on his play, seems to indicate that after playing for a couple of days, the player would go to a casino host or whoever, and ask if there is any credit that can be applied to their account based upon their level of play. My "idea" is that instead of having to ask, the credit is made automatically at the time the person checks out.

I'm thinking that if you're a major player, even a "normal" Diamond player, you're probably somewhat used to have some comps and at least some level of special consideration. If you're a low-life scum player like myself, we're not used to anything, except for maybe the occasional free room. If I booked a regular room at regular rate, and at the time of check out, was surprised to find a credit to my account for some amount that said it was based on my level of gambling, I'd find it refreshing to see that a casino just automatically deducted the amount for me, without me having to ask.
pacomartin
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May 18th, 2011 at 12:12:59 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Still, some experts say it’s too soon to call Las Vegas Sands’ strategy a flop.



Sands showed a mere $10 million drop in operating income for the quarter in Vegas. Although the gambling revenue was greatly reduced, the costs (particularly the vastly reduced amount of comps) almost made up for it.

However, the corporation does not publish the intimate details of the cost of entertaining whales. The gambling revenues in Singapore are so huge, that in fact that $10 million may have been easily made up by flying whales to Singapore instead of Vegas. The cost to lease widebody aircraft that are capable of flying over the Pacific is in the millions. We do not have any idea how often those flights are scheduled over a 90 day period. It seems logical that you can fly a standard 9 passenger business jet the 2300 miles from Shanghai to Singapore, or even the 4000 miles from Kuwait to Singapore for millions less than flying a full size aircraft from Shanghai to Las Vegas (almost 6000 miles).

Wikipedia lists the following aircraft registered to the Las Vegas Sands Corporation

Aircraft Type Tail Number
Gulfstream IV N588LS
Gulfstream IV N688LS
Gulfstream IV N988LS
Gulfstream V N383LS
Boeing 737-300 N789LS (2300 nautical mile range; maximum 150 passengers but probably configured for about 40-50 passengers)
Boeing 767-300 N804MS
Lockheed L-1011 N388LS
Boeing 747SP VP-BLK
Boeing 747SP VQ-BMS


If their new strategy allows them to eliminate the last four aircraft and replace them with leases for smaller business aircraft, then that $10 million per quarter is basically meaningless. They still have a Gulfstream V which would allow them to carry 12 passengers easily from Shanghai Las Vegas and may be able to go from Singapore to Vegas probably 8 passengers. That would be enough to carry their executives back and forth.

But the cost of those four widebody aircraft must be astronomical.



With gaming revenue under $1 million per day in Vegas, and corporate gaming revenue of $18.5 million per day, it wouldn't surprise me if Sands Corporation simply sells their Las Vegas operations to Intercontinental Hotel Group.
FleaStiff
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May 18th, 2011 at 1:02:43 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

I wonder if any casino would be willing to just be open and honest,

Many are. If you contact the Top Tier casinos on the Strip you will find they are the ones that want to be the most vague and noncommittal. Some places such as MResort or Tuscany will be more precise. Most places are quite specific when it comes to their slot comps because they measure the slot players automatically. Most places are less informative when it comes to table games. However, places like MResort will be perfectly willing to indicate what sort of play will be likely to get you a mid-week room comp. They will not indicate what might be required to get you a weekend room comp. They will never commit to it unless you have a history with them though.

Its perfectly reasonable to base your decisions on a casino host's somewhat vague and non-committal statements. Just be sure that when you approach a table you note the time, you introduce yourself and hand the card over and you say something about "rated play". Sure they are busy at times and sure they will see someone's black chip before they see a lower value chip. What casino wouldn't? But if you keep an accurate track of your play and talk to them about during a lull in the floorman's duties, you stand a pretty good chance.

There are also tricks to learn. If your action was not really impressive at all but you've lost then you may or may not get a Buffet Comp at M Resorts but you are a shoe-in to get a Deli Comp there. A low roller who lost his bankroll promptly will get something to keep him happy and bring him back to the M Resort. Tuscany Resorts has known amounts for a room comp and its well known that the computer may or may not be generous toward you but there is not much discretion for a room comp. You can be one cent short of their mark and the darned computer system won't let them put it through for you. So the system is somewhat inflexible but its generous and not overly burdensome to low rollers.

Things change constantly and no casino host will ever be explicit if you've not already had a history of showing them some action, but these vague statements regarding size of bet and time at table are not lies. They just don't want to say anything that might be viewed as binding on them. They want you to show up and get sized up by them first. Its a perfectly reasonable outlook for them.
FleaStiff
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May 18th, 2011 at 1:08:47 PM permalink
Quote: pacomartin


With gaming revenue under $1 million per day in Vegas, and corporate gaming revenue of $18.5 million per day, it wouldn't surprise me if Sands Corporation simply sells their Las Vegas operations to Intercontinental Hotel Group.


If you tack Intercontinental Hotel Group's corporate name changes do you get any linkages with the Evil Empire?
pacomartin
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May 18th, 2011 at 4:25:41 PM permalink
None that I can trace. Holiday Inn used to have some involvement in casino, but it was never a big part of the business. IHG is mostly a franchise operation. While the total number of rooms under IHG is over 600K (the largest in the world), the corporation manages only a fraction of that amount, and only owns a mere 18 hotels.

Revenue for IHG was $1.628 billion for 2010 while revenue Venetian / Palazzo was $1.213 billion. So you would be talking about nearly doubling the size of the company. But the gambling business is so lucrative for the corporation, that they may just want to get out of the room, convention, food and nightclub business. I was really shocked when gaming revenue for Vegas dropped below that of their Bethlehem PA operation.

The possibility of growth just seems so remote for the Vegas property. With the new resort in Macau, and discussions in place in Europe and other parts of Asia, it seems almost stupid to struggle with the property that just barely turns a profit.

If Ceasars Corp buys it might make sense. At this greatly reduced gaming revenue, I doubt that regulators would object since the combined properties would still be far below half the total for the strip. Ceasars has almost half of Atlantic City, and the NJ law says no company can have more than half.
FleaStiff
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May 18th, 2011 at 4:47:59 PM permalink
I thought Holiday Inn became Harrah's and then there was a spin off of some sort as the hotel and gaming businesses separated since the elderly founder of Holiday Inns was not in favor of gambling but the then current management of Holiday Inn wanted to emphasize casinos particularly in the Bahamas and in New Jersey's Marina area with a California real estate developer who held an option on the as yet undeveloped Marina property. Holiday Inn and Holiday Inn Express are brand names of IHG now.

So perhaps a tracing of the entities will show that IHG is related to the Evil Empire. I looked at google search results and felt it was like a corporate game of Button, Button Whose Got the Button.

I saw the name Bass but its not the Bass brothers in Texas, I don't think.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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May 18th, 2011 at 5:15:31 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I thought Holiday Inn became Harrah's and then there was a spin off of some sort as the hotel and gaming businesses separated since the elderly founder of Holiday Inns was not in favor of gambling but the then current management of Holiday Inn wanted to emphasize casinos particularly in the Bahamas and in New Jersey's Marina area with a California real estate developer who held an option on the as yet undeveloped Marina property. Holiday Inn and Holiday Inn Express are brand names of IHG now.

So perhaps a tracing of the entities will show that IHG is related to the Evil Empire. I looked at google search results and felt it was like a corporate game of Button, Button Whose Got the Button.

I saw the name Bass but its not the Bass brothers in Texas, I don't think.



Bass is one of the oldest companies in Britain. It's older than the United States


You are correct

William F. Harrah died in 1978.

February 1980 –
Holiday Inns, Inc. acquires Harrah's, Inc. who at the time only operated two hotel casinos. The one in downtown Reno and the one in Lake Tahoe. Liquidation of the assets in their Auto collection, including almost 7,000 antique automobiles, reportedly returned the full purchase price of both hotels and casinos to Holiday Inn. Holiday Inn at the time had 1,600 hotels and interests in two casinos, a casino under construction in the marina district in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and a 40 percent ownership interest in River Boat Casino, Inc., a casino adjacent to the Holiday Inn hotel on the Las Vegas Strip.

August 1988 – Harrah's Laughlin opens.

January 1990 – Bass PLC acquires the Holiday Inn hotel business and The Promus Companies is created to retain the remaining assets and brands.

1991 – Company headquarters is moved from Reno, Nevada to Memphis,Tennessee.

April 1992 – The company acquires its first Las Vegas property as Holiday Las Vegas is converted to a Harrah's casino.

June 1995 – The company is renamed to Harrah's Entertainment, Inc. following the split off of the Promus hotel brands (Embassy Suites, Hampton Inn, and Homewood Suites)

May 1998 – Gary Loveman joins the organization as Chief Operating Officer.

January 1, 1999 - The corporation purchases the Rio as their second casino in Las Vegas.

etc.

So yes, they have come full circle. Maybe they will purchase the monorail and trim off three stations and make it a private line for Ceasars guests to the convention center

Sahara Station
Las Vegas Hilton Station
Las Vegas Convention Center Station
Harrah's / Imperial Palace Station
Flamingo / Caesars Palace Station
Bally's & Paris Las Vegas Station
MGM Grand Station
buzzpaff
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May 18th, 2011 at 5:39:27 PM permalink
Harrah's folded their tent in both Colorado locations on March 31 1997.

MEMPHIS, December 21, 1993 -- Harrah's, the casino entertainment division of The Promus Companies (NYSE: PRI) today announced that it has purchased a limited partnership interest of 17 percent in Eagle Gaming, L.P. (formerly Central City Gaming Investors), which owns The Glory Hole Casino located in Central City, Colo., and another casino which is under construction in Black Hawk, Colo. Terms were not disclosed. Since Harrah's announcement in May regarding an agreement for its purchase of an interest in The Glory Hole Casino, the ownership group has acquired the under construction Black Hawk casino.
The Glory Hole Casino will be renamed Harrah's Central City on December 28, 1993. The Black Hawk casino, which will be named Harrah's Black Hawk is scheduled to open later this month.
The purchase marks Harrah's entry into the Colorado limited-stakes gaming market. Harrah's will manage both casinos for a fee. Harrah's will centralize certain management and procedural functions between the two casinos to promote greater efficiency and profitability. In addition, branding both casinos under the Harrah's name will create cross-marketing opportunities with the company's other casinos and establish a stronger overall customer base in Colorado.
Opened in February 1992, The Glory Hole Casino is one of the largest gaming facilities in Colorado. Currently, the property has approximately 40,000 square feet of total space, with casino space containing 500 slot/video machines and 13 table games. Harrah's Black Hawk casino will have approximately 46,000 square feet of total space, with 530 slot/video machines and 16 table games.
"The dual ownership of casinos in Central City and Black Hawk by Eagle Gaming has strengthened Harrah's position in Colorado well beyond what was originally anticipated with the previously announced Glory Hole transaction," said Colin Reed, senior vice president of development for Promus. "We believe there are key strategic marketing and operational synergies between the locations that will benefit Harrah's as a brand and the Eagle Gaming partnership, as well as the properties individually.
"This agreement also supports the company's overall growth strategy of making Harrah's the first true national brand in casino entertainment and puts the Harrah's name in a major Nevada feeder market with a population of over 1.8 million," Reed added.
"We believe Harrah's is the best-managed casino entertainment company in the country and with its expertise guiding our properties in Central City and Black Hawk, we foresee an excellent future for both facilities," said Gene W. Schneider, chairman of Wild West Development Corporation, the General Partner of Eagle Gaming, L.P.
Harrah's is the only casino company operating in all five major Nevada and New Jersey casino markets -- Atlantic City, N.J., Lake Tahoe, Laughlin, Las Vegas and Reno, Nev. Harrah's first riverboat casino opened in May 1993 in Joliet, Ill. Dockside casinos in Vicksburg and Tunica, Miss., opened in November 1993. Additional casino entertainment projects under development include the world's largest casino in New Orleans, casinos in Shreveport, La., North Kansas City and St. Louis/Riverport, Mo., and on the Ak-Chin Indian reservation outside Phoenix, Ariz. Also, on December 16, Harrah's was selected to develop and operate Auckland, New Zealand's first and only casino complex.
Harrah's parent company, Promus, also owns and operates three leading hotel brands: Embassy Suites, Hampton Inn and Homewood Suites hotels.
-0- 12/21/93
FleaStiff
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May 18th, 2011 at 5:53:31 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

I guess what I'm saying is that any comp $ would be applied automatically, and without having to ask.

Yeah, I'd prefer that too. Its not the way it works. Most time they only take care of squeaky wheels. Wheels that don't squeak may get a little dab of oil, but wheels that squeak get bathed in oil. That's the way it is.

When you check out or if you visit a host just prior to checking out is up to you. I simply happened to go up to a host prior to checking out at the Venetian and asked some minor question simply because he was the nearest employee. He must have assumed that this was my way of broaching the subject of Comps since I had prefaced my question with an offhand comment that I was about to check out and needed some sort of directions (perhaps it was to the shuttle or something). Thats when I found out I was RFB there. I sure ain't now.
cclub79
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May 18th, 2011 at 5:54:21 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

I guess what I'm saying is that any comp $ would be applied automatically, and without having to ask. The trip reports that I've read here and other places, and comments from the Wizard on his play, seems to indicate that after playing for a couple of days, the player would go to a casino host or whoever, and ask if there is any credit that can be applied to their account based upon their level of play. My "idea" is that instead of having to ask, the credit is made automatically at the time the person checks out.

I'm thinking that if you're a major player, even a "normal" Diamond player, you're probably somewhat used to have some comps and at least some level of special consideration. If you're a low-life scum player like myself, we're not used to anything, except for maybe the occasional free room. If I booked a regular room at regular rate, and at the time of check out, was surprised to find a credit to my account for some amount that said it was based on my level of gambling, I'd find it refreshing to see that a casino just automatically deducted the amount for me, without me having to ask.



The thing is the "Free Room" is what gets many people to come down and play. Just saying, "Come and play, and if you do well enough to survive long enough to earn enough points, you'll get a cheaper room!" They do much better putting out the $20 for the room, and hopefully someone will bring their $400 gaming budget and blow through it over the weekend. It works all the time in AC, because except maybe in the summer on beach, most people aren't going to make the drive to the city and just take advantage of non-gaming attractions. I could see where this could be a problem in Vegas, but if they give you a room and you don't gamble, then next time they bump you lower on the list to give available rooms to.
konceptum
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May 18th, 2011 at 8:06:40 PM permalink
Quote: cclub79

The thing is the "Free Room" is what gets many people to come down and play.


Yes, we know this is how it works. But remember, the original post is about the decision by some casinos to discontinue this kind of offer. My suggestion is sort of a happy middle ground. You don't get a "free room", but we will comp whatever your gambling activity happens to be during your stay.
gofaster87
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May 18th, 2011 at 8:12:13 PM permalink
.....
cclub79
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May 18th, 2011 at 8:18:10 PM permalink
Quote: konceptum

Yes, we know this is how it works. But remember, the original post is about the decision by some casinos to discontinue this kind of offer. My suggestion is sort of a happy middle ground. You don't get a "free room", but we will comp whatever your gambling activity happens to be during your stay.



I don't see how it's really a middle ground. If I don't get a free room to come down, I'm probably not coming. But even if I do come without a free room, most every place I've ever played already does exactly what you are suggesting (Harrah's/Borgata/Trump/Mohegan/Foxwoods): You gain points for playing, and with the press of a button when you check out, they can take any or all of those points to reduce your bill. It's not done automatically, but you know exactly how much you have and they always seem to ask. Unless you are saying you should get a lot more credit for your play. I don't think anyone's going to argue about that!
konceptum
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May 18th, 2011 at 9:12:10 PM permalink
Quote: cclub79

I don't see how it's really a middle ground. If I don't get a free room to come down, I'm probably not coming.


I guess I see it as a middle ground since the options currently seem to be:

1) Give offer for free room to entice players to come down.

2) Do not give offer for free rooms.

Quote: cclub79

But even if I do come without a free room, most every place I've ever played already does exactly what you are suggesting (Harrah's/Borgata/Trump/Mohegan/Foxwoods): You gain points for playing, and with the press of a button when you check out, they can take any or all of those points to reduce your bill. It's not done automatically, but you know exactly how much you have and they always seem to ask. Unless you are saying you should get a lot more credit for your play. I don't think anyone's going to argue about that!


I've never seen a place that automatically reduces your bill by the amount of your theoretical play. I know you can ask for comps or RFB or to see if your level of play rates a discount on the room or whatever. But I haven't seen a place that does it automatically without having to ask for it. if Harrah's does that, kudos to them.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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Joined: Jan 14, 2010
May 18th, 2011 at 10:14:05 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

"After scrapping promotional offers such as free rooms to entice gamblers, the owner of the Venetian and Palazzo in Las Vegas reported a 47 percent decline in casino revenue"



Quick Review of Vegas Quarter
That 47% equaled going down $72.2 million.
Rooms went down $7.2 million
Food and beverage up $6.6 million
Retail up $14.4 million
Promotional Allowances saved $33.4 million
------------------------------------------
Net Revenue down $25.4 million
Reduction in costs saved $15.4 million (no details provided but not catering to demanding gamblers)
Operating income down $10.0 million

Sands Corporation operations in Vegas had $83.1 million in gambling revenue for 7000 rooms.
Sands Corporation operations in Penn. had $87.1 million in gambling revenue with zero rooms.

The bottom line is that casinos are going to head more and more to gambling where the people live. I think there will be less and less room giving away.
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