Vegas shutting down again rumor
Quote: AxelWolf
As an advantage player your best bet is to get the money in your hand and out of the casino.
Last week I was playing through some free play and hit a Royal for $8000, not a lot of money, but I was on my way to a day on the lake and when asked if I wanted a check I said yes. That seemed better than having 8 grand locked in the car in the parking lot all day.
The next day I deposited the check in the bank and they immediately placed a hold on it for 10 business days, that is 2 weeks. The reason given and this are the exact words is that "there is a higher possibility the check can be returned". It is a check from a casino!
I should have gone with Axel's advice above as I always do. Get the money in hand. I could have gone right through the drive in on my way to the lake and deposited the cash. Hindsight. lol.
Quote: kewljThe next day I deposited the check in the bank and they immediately placed a hold on it for 10 business days, that is 2 weeks. The reason given and this are the exact words is that "there is a higher possibility the check can be returned". It is a check from a casino!
That sounds extremely sketchy, and quite possibly illegal. I'd definitely start looking for a new bank.
Quote: PapaChubbyThat sounds extremely sketchy, and quite possibly illegal. I'd definitely start looking for a new bank.
I don't really know the bank rankings, but this happens to be one of the biggest if not the biggest bank in the country, so I am assuming it is not illegal. The part that surprised me was a bank located here in Las Vegas, big national bank or not, viewing a check from a casino here in Las Vegas as suspicious or higher risk. I don't know how this works. Maybe it is completely normal. I just found it surprising.
i.e. your telling me that a bank put a hold on a casino check into your account does not mean that casino checks ever bounce. They do not!
And a teller's telling you much of anything - let alone that a casino check is high risk - means little. Ask a teller for her number - not her advice.
Quote: DRichWhat type of a problem does having a CTR filed cause? Unless you are laundering money, I don't see a problem.
Did you ever go to a bank to deposit a large amount of cash from a casino? I did.
The bank doesn't care that it came from a casino. The bank will ask you "what is your business?"
Now consider this: I went to my bank with $55k. I wanted the bank to record the $55k as casino winnings. Why? Because I had losses to offset it.
The bank didn't care, because the CTR only asks for my business. So the $55k was linked to my business, and not to getting lucky in a casino.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDid you ever go to a bank to deposit a large amount of cash from a casino? I did.
The bank doesn't care that it came from a casino. The bank will ask you "what is your business?"
Now consider this: I went to my bank with $55k. I wanted the bank to record the $55k as casino winnings. Why? Because I had losses to offset it.
The bank didn't care, because the CTR only asks for my business. So the $55k was linked to my business, and not to getting lucky in a casino.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
I have deposited more than $50k cash multiple times at my bank. I have always deposited it into my personal account and not one of my business accounts. Yes, the CTR requires the filer to state the occupation of the depositor, but it is not linked to a business. I have filed probably over 1000 CTR's for patrons and I always fill in the occupation of the winner but it is definitely nothing more than that. Basically the Department of Treasury just wants to understand if the person winning has a legitimate job as opposed to drug dealing or other criminal activity. They really just want to ascertain if you are laundering money.
I have never seen it as a problem.
Quote: MDawgThese days, with the speed at which checks are cleared, holds are more a function of your standing with the bank, your average balance and the type of account it is (personal, corporate, etc.) than the source of the deposit. If you are strong with your bank not only will they not hold your deposited check but also allow you to deposit a check with any name on it into your corporate account. I have deposited low to mid five figure casino checks and never had a hold - all the funds became available the very next day. And that's without asking for any special treatment.
It is a personal account, but it is the account I use to hold my bankroll which I keep separate from my personal finances. I start each year resetting my bankroll to 100k. About a third of that is chip inventory and cash on hand. The rest is in this bank and this account, so under normal circumstances it is upper five figures (100k +/- win loss for the year, less cash on hand/chip inventory). But I cashed in most of my chip inventory back in March, just to be sure I didn't get stuck holding chips, so this account is currently above 100k.
I have no idea if my bank considers that "strong" or not. I am not familiar with that terminology or definition related to banking relationships.
Anyway, it is no big deal (unless check doesn't clear lol). I just found the situation and explanation "odd".
Quote: DRichI have deposited more than $50k cash multiple times at my bank. I have always deposited it into my personal account and not one of my business accounts. Yes, the CTR requires the filer to state the occupation of the depositor, but it is not linked to a business. I have filed probably over 1000 CTR's for patrons and I always fill in the occupation of the winner but it is definitely nothing more than that. Basically the Department of Treasury just wants to understand if the person winning has a legitimate job as opposed to drug dealing or other criminal activity. They really just want to ascertain if you are laundering money.
I have never seen it as a problem.
But I dont take cash in my business. Suddenly I have a CTR that shows only my occupation and no mention that the cash came from casino wins which could be offset.
See the problem now?
Quote: AlanMendelsonBut I dont take cash in my business. Suddenly I have a CTR that shows only my occupation and no mention that the cash came from casino wins which could be offset.
See the problem now?
Yeah, I see the problem. Suddenly you are laundering money. lol (that is what the bank is thinking)
Quote: AlanMendelsonBut I dont take cash in my business. Suddenly I have a CTR that shows only my occupation and no mention that the cash came from casino wins which could be offset.
See the problem now?
Nope, sorry I still don't see the problem. Unless the Treasury Department finds it suspicious the IRS probably will never know about it.
Quote: DRichNope, sorry I still don't see the problem. Unless the Treasury Department finds it suspicious the IRS probably will never know about it.
Ever go through a TCMP audit?
When I had my Internet company not only did I go through a TCMP personal audit, but i had two IRS agents at my CPAs office for two days going over everything from me and my partners. They even went through every line item including W2Gs.
We came out clean but I never want to go through that again. Why have $55,000 in a cash deposit showing up for a business that takes only checks and credit cards?
Quote: AlanMendelsonEver go through a TCMP audit?
When I had my Internet company not only did I go through a TCMP personal audit, but i had two IRS agents at my CPAs office for two days going over everything from me and my partners. They even went through every line item including W2Gs.
We came out clean but I never want to go through that again. Why have $55,000 in a cash deposit showing up for a business that takes only checks and credit cards?
The CTR form has one line that asks for: Occupation or type of business? That is it. It doesn't ask for the individuals business name, Tax Id, etc.
Quote: DRichThe CTR form has one line that asks for: Occupation or type of business? That is it. It doesn't ask for the individuals business name, Tax Id, etc.
I'm done discussing this.
Quote: AlanMendelsonReally?
Do you really think that if you got so far as to get a check that they would stop payment on it?
At least say something realistic. Like the casino files bankruptcy before you get out the door and the check is no good. LOL
I may have mentioned this before, but I have run into this kind of closing problem occasionally, even if I checked with casino management and the Gaming Board about proper protocols. For example, I had a boatload of Oakland Raiders futures pending with the Desert Inn when they closed. I checked with DI sports book management, the casino's upper management, and with Gaming Control. I was told A, B, and C -- but it turned out after they closed that most of what I was told was garbage. The post office box they gave me for the Desert Inn was even wrong! I had to go through Gaming Control again and make the calls again. Anyway, Oakland did not win the AFC that year (they made it to the title game), but I had to make sure everything would work with cashing winning tickets because I was going to make substantial hedges.
If a place does close, all bets, as the saying goes, are sometimes off. Had I followed the instructions the sports book, DI management, and Gaming Control had given me, my tickets would have disappeared into some post office box not associated with any of the principals.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI'm really amazed at some of the questions raised here? I thought this forum had experienced gamblers?
Taxable gains and losses are reported quarterly, especially if you're a Schedule C professional. What's your net for the quarter? Your quarterly reports become your net for the tax year.
Do not confuse your quarterly net for the requirement of a daily log.
Your quarterly reports become your net for the tax year.
So If I win $25K each quarter for a year, I have to use that as an estimate of my income and pay taxes based on that amount the next year and when my 2nd fiscal year ends I get to spot the difference? I'm not sure how estimated taxes go, but the IRS needs to be abolished.
Quote: PapaChubbyThat sounds extremely sketchy, and quite possibly illegal. I'd definitely start looking for a new bank.
That doesn’t sound uncommon. At least one casino has/had checks you cannot even cash (but maybe deposit) right away. It’s printed right on the check.
My guess on that is that the casino has a particular account for this purpose and they only deposit money into it once a month, every couple weeks, or what have you. That’s a pure guess, but I don’t understand why else there would be a waiting period.
Either way, I agree with Axel that cash is king, whether or not you’re an AP. They come, they count, they put it in your hand. If you want to deposit it into your bank, you have a W2-G form that legitimizes where the cash came from, so I don’t know why that would be an issue.
One of the networks ran a piece a few years back on a Sheriff's office in Texas that routinely stopped minority drivers passing through his jurisdiction on the way to a casino.
Quote: billryanWhere cash could be a problem is in smaller casinos in rural areas. There are many stories floating around the internet of corrupt casinos calling corrupt sheriffs about people who won big in their casinos and the patron ends up harassed and sometimes the winnings are confiscated. I imagine some of those stories may be true.
One of the networks ran a piece a few years back on a Sheriff's office in Texas that routinely stopped minority drivers passing through his jurisdiction on the way to a casino.
Didnt this discussion about the advantages of checks stem from the concern of having cash seized?
What kind of rinky dink casinos are you guys playing in where checks have a "hold date" before cashing?
Aren't checks only issued for large wins which also require ID for W2Gs? Is there a casino in Vegas that will even let you play without a players card or ID?
I do understand that banks might put holds on large checks but that's something banks do with any check and not just casino checks.
Yes it would be sweet if we could all avoid checks but cash is a dangerous thing to carry.
Quote: AlanMendelson
What kind of rinky dink casinos are you guys playing in where checks have a "hold date" before cashing?
My check was from the Plaza. Not a huge strip casino but not exactly "rinky dink" either.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Yes it would be sweet if we could all avoid checks but cash is a dangerous thing to carry.
Most casinos will send money via ACH if you set it up with them.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDidnt this discussion about the advantages of checks stem from the concern of having cash seized?
What kind of rinky dink casinos are you guys playing in where checks have a "hold date" before cashing?
Aren't checks only issued for large wins which also require ID for W2Gs? Is there a casino in Vegas that will even let you play without a players card or ID?
I do understand that banks might put holds on large checks but that's something banks do with any check and not just casino checks.
Yes it would be sweet if we could all avoid checks but cash is a dangerous thing to carry.
Having cash seized is always a concern for AP's but using checks instead was not the solution.
Again AP's have a distrust of casinos and their tendency to try to punish Advantage Players.
The solution AP's have tried is maintaining lots of paperwork that legitmizes their cash (W2G, IRS filings, etc) so if stopped and questions arise about cash on hand the officer can be shown the origins.
AP's are about solutions that are sometimes not as 20/20 as a normal person might conclude
Quote: kewljMy check was from the Plaza. Not a huge strip casino but not exactly "rinky dink" either.
Did your check from the Plaza have a hold date? Not a hold placed by your bank, but a hold from the casino that said the check could not be used right away?
Quote: AlanMendelsonDid your check from the Plaza have a hold date? Not a hold placed by your bank, but a hold from the casino that said the check could not be used right away?
Not that I am aware of.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDidnt this discussion about the advantages of checks stem from the concern of having cash seized?
What kind of rinky dink casinos are you guys playing in where checks have a "hold date" before cashing?
Aren't checks only issued for large wins which also require ID for W2Gs? Is there a casino in Vegas that will even let you play without a players card or ID?
I do understand that banks might put holds on large checks but that's something banks do with any check and not just casino checks.
Yes it would be sweet if we could all avoid checks but cash is a dangerous thing to carry.
I’m not going to say what casino had the hold date, but it wasn’t a ridiculously small casino. Not a large one, either, but was owned by a major casino corporation.
Virtually any casino will let you play without an ID or card, in my experience. It’s only winning when it might become a problem. I’ve never been asked to present ID at any Vegas casino, or anywhere else other than a select few places, other than at the players clubs.
ACH vs Bank Transfer Banking Options - Online Casino Banking
https://www.bestuscasinos.org/blog/ach-vs-bank-transfer-online-gambling-banking-methods/
Quote: AlanMendelsonThe RJ is very careful to post a disclaimer on every story regarding LVS that the paper is owned by Sheldon's family.
I would hope that they would be objective. I am not privy to their editorial decisions.
Not only that but they also publish the Las Vegas Sun inside the Review Journal. If you read both of these you will immediately see the difference in editorial content and articles. The LRJ is definitely more conservative than the LVS articles. They seem to be polar opposites almost, like MSNBC v Fox on TV
Quote: MJGolfNot only that but they also publish the Las Vegas Sun inside the Review Journal. If you read both of these you will immediately see the difference in editorial content and articles. The LRJ is definitely more conservative than the LVS articles. They seem to be polar opposites almost, like MSNBC v Fox on TV
The Las Vegas Sun is not part of the Las Vegas Review Journal... except that they are pinted together.
The Sun is owned by a non related company to the Journal. But there was an anti trust suit brought against the Journal and in the settlement both papers were published together.
They have separate editorial and sales staffs, but circulation is combined.
Complicated? Yes.
The RJ has a conservative slant and the Sun has a liberal slant.
Quote: Mission146Virtually any casino will let you play without an ID or card, in my experience.
I admit I play in only a few casinos. Red Rock, Caesars, Bellagio, Suncoast.
My experience has been they will not let you play at craps unless you show a card or ID. I've seen them turn away players.
Of course no one is checking IDs at slots. But several years ago Caesars held a hand pay till a winner either mailed in or brought in their ID. It was only a $1250 hand pay. The player said they lived in Vegas but forgot to bring it. No players card. No money.
Quote: AlanMendelsonBut several years ago Caesars held a hand pay till a winner either mailed in or brought in their ID. It was only a $1250 hand pay. The player said they lived in Vegas but forgot to bring it. No players card. No money.
It could have been a case where a CTR was required. We never let patrons collect if a CTR was required unless they presented ID.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI admit I play in only a few casinos. Red Rock, Caesars, Bellagio, Suncoast.
My experience has been they will not let you play at craps unless you show a card or ID. I've seen them turn away players.
My experience is quite different. I don't play craps, but two of these casinos are in my regular blackjack rotation and I only play unrated. Sometimes they ask, but I always give one of my patented reasons and that is the end of it.
Quote: DRichIt could have been a case where a CTR was required. We never let patrons collect if a CTR was required unless they presented ID.
A CTR for $1250.... one thousand 250 dollars?
Quote: kewljBy the way Alan, YOU don't have to show id. Trust me the casinos you frequent know EXACTLY who you are. Lol.
Of course I dont have to show ID. I dont even have to show my players card... they have me right in the system. LOL
Quote: AlanMendelsonI admit I play in only a few casinos. Red Rock, Caesars, Bellagio, Suncoast.
My experience has been they will not let you play at craps unless you show a card or ID. I've seen them turn away players.
Of course no one is checking IDs at slots. But several years ago Caesars held a hand pay till a winner either mailed in or brought in their ID. It was only a $1250 hand pay. The player said they lived in Vegas but forgot to bring it. No players card. No money.
Exactly, that’s why I was saying it only becomes a problem if you win. You should definitely have your ID with you if you’re playing something on which a handpay is possible, generally speaking.
I also agree that different casinos will have different policies. For my part, I’ve never seen a single player at any table game be asked for an ID after they’ve said they have no PC in my entire life. Cocktail Waitresses, on the other hand, I have seen ask younger looking tables players for an ID.
Quote: Mission146I’m not going to say what casino had the hold date, but it wasn’t a ridiculously small casino. Not a large one, either, but was owned by a major casino corporation.
Virtually any casino will let you play without an ID or card, in my experience. It’s only winning when it might become a problem. I’ve never been asked to present ID at any Vegas casino, or anywhere else other than a select few places, other than at the players clubs.
FWIW... you need an ID to get into Seneca Niagara Casino now. They want to see a Driver's License from a state that is not on the quarantine list.
Quote: AlanMendelsonA CTR for $1250.... one thousand 250 dollars?
Yes, if they have reason to believe that the payment brings daily winnings over the reporting requirement.
Quote: AlanMendelsonA CTR for $1250.... one thousand 250 dollars?
Yes, a CTR is the accumulation of all of the cashouts for the day. If he had cashed out a total of $9000 through all his other TITO's for the day the $1250 would put him over $10k and require a CTR.
Quote: SOOPOOFWIW... you need an ID to get into Seneca Niagara Casino now. They want to see a Driver's License from a state that is not on the quarantine list.
My expired New York license makes me wonder how valid it is even with the Governor's indefinite extension that could go another year. If I drive out of state, is that a problem? Will a casino say it's no good? Will the corner store tell me to bring a valid passport to buy beer?
Quote: ChumpChangeMy expired New York license makes me wonder how valid it is even with the Governor's indefinite extension that could go another year. If I drive out of state, is that a problem? Will a casino say it's no good? Will the corner store tell me to bring a valid passport to buy beer?
Do not get a CTR. They require a current non-expired for of ID. I don't know if the casino would actually enforce it, but they could.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/12-major-las-vegas-hotel-casinos-remain-dark-indefinitely-2093904/
And this article from CNN talks about the crisis on families.
https://www.fox5vegas.com/coronavirus/las-vegas-entertainers-fear-dire-straits-as-weeks-of-unemployment-turn-to-months/article_8d7a9104-b633-5412-a7ea-2691f8af0ba8.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share&fbclid=IwAR1-6qLkABi_iDErHZipVPqW9j9rm7uKeaCNBozpSlA5PIapsTEgJl0-On0
Quote: AlanMendelsonFor too many people Vegas never reopened including 12 major casinos.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/12-major-las-vegas-hotel-casinos-remain-dark-indefinitely-2093904/
I didn't realize Boyd had yet to reopen Main Street Station or Eastside Cannery. I will talk about Eastside cannery in a second, but if Boyd hasn't opened some of their own properties, the rumors of them buying the Fiesta's (Henderson and Rancho) don't make a lot of sense.
Eastside Cannery. What the freak did Boyd do to this property. Used to be a cute little local joint. Cheap but decent buffet. Nice sportsbook and sportsbook deli (one of my favorite places). Good table games, although they were cheating at blackjack so I stopped playing. Good strong mailers for relatively small amounts of coin-in machine play. Just a nice little place.
And then....Boyd bought it. A block from Sam's town, that never did make sense. Boyd immediately closed the buffet, and then the sportsbook deli and then the sportsbook, replacing it with a very small sports betting counter. (used to be the players club counter). Then they cut table games down to one small pit, that almost never had any table games open. They got rid of 50% of machines on the casino floor, leaving it feeling sparse, too open.
They just reduced it to like nothing. I am not surprised it hasn't re-opened. Why did they buy the place to shut everything down?
Quote: SOOPOOFWIW... you need an ID to get into Seneca Niagara Casino now. They want to see a Driver's License from a state that is not on the quarantine list.
I believe it. There are even a few casinos that seem to regularly check ID’s at the entrances before COVID, though none were in AC or Vegas that I have seen.
In most of these casinos, it seems to be pretty sporadic. My guess is that they catch a fine for someone underage being in there, ramp it up for a bit, then it falls back off over time.
I definitely can’t think of a single casino in which I’ve been carded every time I’ve walked in there, unless you count the PA, “Resort,” type casinos where you have to purchase a $10 day pass, (they give you a $10 gift card that can basically be used for anything except gambling) but that’s because they have to give you the pass.
Certainly COVID will have changed this in many places. But, I would say some 90%+ of casinos I’ve visited around the country, you could probably go in and play as long as you don’t look ridiculously young.
Quote: ChumpChangeMy expired New York license makes me wonder how valid it is even with the Governor's indefinite extension that could go another year. If I drive out of state, is that a problem? Will a casino say it's no good? Will the corner store tell me to bring a valid passport to buy beer?
If it was me, for driving out of state, I’d find some documentation of this from an official NY Government webpage, print it out, and put it in my glovebox. I can’t promise that would help if you got pulled over, but it might.
Technically, states have to respect each other’s laws. And, according to NY, your license is good.
How do people (thinking younger people) who have never had a license before go about getting one? I know nothing about NY, but I do know some DMV’s (or equivalent) in other states were completely closed for a time.
Quote: kewljI didn't realize Boyd had yet to reopen Main Street Station or Eastside Cannery. I will talk about Eastside cannery in a second, but if Boyd hasn't opened some of their own properties, the rumors of them buying the Fiesta's (Henderson and Rancho) don't make a lot of sense.
Eastside Cannery. What the freak did Boyd do to this property. Used to be a cute little local joint. Cheap but decent buffet. Nice sportsbook and sportsbook deli (one of my favorite places). Good table games, although they were cheating at blackjack so I stopped playing. Good strong mailers for relatively small amounts of coin-in machine play. Just a nice little place.
And then....Boyd bought it. A block from Sam's town, that never did make sense. Boyd immediately closed the buffet, and then the sportsbook deli and then the sportsbook, replacing it with a very small sports betting counter. (used to be the players club counter). Then they cut table games down to one small pit, that almost never had any table games open. They got rid of 50% of machines on the casino floor, leaving it feeling sparse, too open.
They just reduced it to like nothing. I am not surprised it hasn't re-opened. Why did they buy the place to shut everything down?
Cheating at Blackjack? Do tell!
They did have a pretty good buffet. They also had the Webpass, or whatever it was called, so you could play the little games and quizzes right on their site and earn free comps. I think I walked into both there and North Cannery with some buffets and free play. They might still have that, not sure. It wouldn’t really have been worth the time accumulating the points, except I worked the hotel at this point anyway, so would just do it on downtime.
I can’t imagine how open it is now with half of the machines gone! I believe I had complimented it on having plenty of walking space between rows even prior to that.
I obviously don’t know the answer to the last question, but if forced to guess, maybe to drive the business to Sam’s Town. I don’t think much else is there except the small place across the street where you could double down on Blackjack anytime you wanted. Also, doesn’t that make the better part of that area of Boulder Highway only Boyd and Stations?
