Vegas shutting down again rumor
Quote: sabreI find it humorous when someone can't fathom performing a task themselves they automatically decide that nobody else on earth could perform that task.
It isn't difficult to track the count on the next table over for a few rounds at the start of their shoe.
As someone who has tried it on a number of occasions, I would say it's definitely possible, but it is certainly difficult. It's not something a novice can do or even the average intermediate player. As an AP doesn't want to attract attention, I have to question how much advantage one would gain. Jumping back and forth between tables within the same pit seems problematic.
Quote: ChumpChangeI used to have 20/10 or 20/15 vision when I was young. Now I just barely passed a vision test at 20/40 wearing 3 year old prescription glasses for a DMV form. My eyes have gotten worse every 6 months. First everything within 6" was blurry, then a few years later it was everything within a foot, then a few years later it was within 18", then a few years later it was 2 feet. I'm wearing 1.75X magnifier reader glasses from the dollar store so I can see my computer screen or read my speedometer when I walk out the door with the wrong glasses on. Since age 45 or so I've needed new prescription glasses every year but could only get them every 2 years. The deterioration is frightening. Apparently this is a very common condition of aging. Those signs high above the aisles in supermarkets to tell you what's in them look a bit fuzzy without prescription glasses now. I can still see my TV from 8 feet away OK without glasses but I sometimes see double when there's print scrolling on the bottom of the screen and glasses fix that. When I'm rolling dice at a 14 or 16 foot table I can't really see how the dice turned out and wait for the dealer's call, while wearing prescription glasses.
You may have gotten corona in your eyes ☀️
Quote: ChumpChangeI have to flush my eyes with water over the sink for a minute twice a day. Hope the water supply isn't infected. I suppose the sewage is infected.
I understand urine is sterile. Use piss.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThere is no need to argue anything that happened years ago. I'm asking everyone to go to casinos of their own choice and determine themselves if they could even see the action on another table. Please see my previous post.
If I were inclined, I could do so...not that I would do it terribly accurately.
I’m aware of one casino at which, for whatever reason, the low limit Blackjack tables sit higher than their table with a higher minimum bet...weird as that sounds.
Anyway, this was pre-Covid and I don’t even know if both tables are regularly open anymore. I haven’t even been to this casino since before the shutdown.
In this instance, were I a skilled Blackjack counter (which you seem to not claim to be and I am certainly not) counting both tables would be a trivial affair. I don’t think you’d want to sit in the middle in this situation, though, you’d want to sit at the leftmost seat and not have anyone in the rightmost seat of the other table. Bird’s eye view.
With all due respect, and I’m usually a pretty skeptical guy, (despite that I rarely call people out unless something is straight mathematically wrong) I don’t see what about this claim is so hard to believe.
Quote: kewljHere's something you may enjoy 21forme. That forum you call "the urinal"....that was Alan's forum. He founded that forum. We have him to thank for it's existence. Lol
I think calling it a urinal forum now is a mild description of what it has become. It is certainly a racist forum.
I'm disappointed in you Kewlj for failing to point out it was not a urinal, a sewer or a racist site when I ran it. You should have pointed out that I gave the site (gave not sold) to Todd Witteles (aka Dan Druff) more than three years ago because I was tired of deleting offensive posts and I didnt want to be held responsible for any offensive or unlawful postings on the site. Witteles and no one else is the sole administrator of that site now and it appears that his desire for "free speech" is more important than stopping racist remarks, as well as the discrimination and perhaps even illegal activities that are promoted there.
For the record, I also revealed how over the years Rob Singer misled me about his video poker plays and claims.
I washed my hands of the whole mess, and frankly I hope federal laws are changed to make the site responsible for what is posted on it.
Quote: Mission146If I were inclined, I could do so...not that I would do it terribly accurately.
I’m aware of one casino at which, for whatever reason, the low limit Blackjack tables sit higher than their table with a higher minimum bet...weird as that sounds.
Anyway, this was pre-Covid and I don’t even know if both tables are regularly open anymore. I haven’t even been to this casino since before the shutdown.
In this instance, were I a skilled Blackjack counter (which you seem to not claim to be and I am certainly not) counting both tables would be a trivial affair. I don’t think you’d want to sit in the middle in this situation, though, you’d want to sit at the leftmost seat and not have anyone in the rightmost seat of the other table. Bird’s eye view.
With all due respect, and I’m usually a pretty skeptical guy, (despite that I rarely call people out unless something is straight mathematically wrong) I don’t see what about this claim is so hard to believe.
Hi. It was Kewlj who said to sit in the middle.
In your example with one table higher than another, does the end seat of the higher table turn away from the nearby lower table? (I believe all blackjack tables are curved so the dealer has better visibility of the action.)
Quote: AlanMendelsonHi. It was Kewlj who said to sit in the middle.
In your example with one table higher than another, does the end seat of the higher table turn away from the nearby lower table? (I believe all blackjack tables are curved so the dealer has better visibility of the action.)
As I recall, it's a swivel seat, but even if not, you could just reposition the seat...in fact, if you repositioned the seat in a way that would help with this, it would also give the cocktail waitress easier access to you. Sitting in the middle might be appropriate for the situation that KewlJ is describing, but you defied any takers to name one casino in which this could theoretically be done. The reason that I named this casino is because I very rarely play table games, so it's the only casino I can name where I feel pretty comfortable that I could personally do it.
There's also a UTH table at this casino where I could tell you, with precision, what the community cards are on Mississippi Stud. At least at the time, the players would not show their cards until the end...but I feel like if they were dealt to the players face up I could probably see them if nobody (at either table) was obstructing my field of vision. For this table, I'd say I'd probably want to be in the middle or middle-right, but not the far right because I don't think my visual angle would be optimal. These two tables sit the same height. For this table, I would want no players whatsoever on the left side of the other table. I'm 6'3", so I imagine that helps.
To that extent, I assume that any argument that you are making against KewlJ's claim has to do with the visual ability to do this. I would certainly hope that you're not suggesting that he couldn't keep a count of two tables at once given an adequate view of both.
I don't challenge Kewlj's blackjack skills. I'm simply asking everyone here to go to the casino of their choice and see for themselves what cards at adjoining tables are visible, taking into account other players, drinks, chip stacks, and of course the live action of dealers dealing.
Why don't you do that Mission and report back?
Thanks.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIf I recall in Mississippi stud you not only can show your cards to other players but its permitted to have other players give you money to make bets on winning hands.
I don't challenge Kewlj's blackjack skills. I'm simply asking everyone here to go to the casino of their choice and see for themselves what cards at adjoining tables are visible, taking into account other players, drinks, chip stacks, and of course the live action of dealers dealing.
Why don't you do that Mission and report back?
Thanks.
I just did report on it. I’m going off of memory, but I’m afraid I have neither the time nor inclination to drive over an hour to this casino...assuming both BJ tables are even open right now (doubtful considering this is Monday) just to determine this.
I think how strict they are about showing cards varies by casino. Even then, they wouldn’t be laying face up on the table, so I probably couldn’t see them.
Yes, other players (which I mentioned) would be the biggest factor and then the other two in some order. If you’re looking at the middle or opposite side (relative to you) chip stacks would not matter as the cards would be in front of the chips. The cup holders at this casino are little slide in deals, so the cards would be in front of those, as well.
If KewlJ said he could do it every visit, then I would challenge that claim. Obviously, having a person’s body between you and the cards totally screws the pooch. I don’t think KewlJ made such a claim, but if he did, I’m open to being corrected.
If you're a card counter you don't want to be caught looking at the next table while delaying your own game. What a horrible tell for the eye and the pit boss and the dealers.
Anyway this discussion is theoretical if you can't actually sit in a middle seat during a real game and report back.
I've done it at Caesars, Bellagio, TI, Red Rock and Suncoast usually while at free tournaments since I'm not a blackjack player.
At all of the casinos the curved tables were in a straight line hindering views with just a small number of players, like this:
)
)
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)
Please take a seat in the middle and report back. Or check some of the photos of blackjack pits on Google. You'll see the curves and the angles of views.
Thanks.
Quote: DocHas anyone heard anything -- perhaps even an update -- on the rumor that Vegas might be shutting down again? There used to be a thread where people were discussing that topic on this forum, but I can't seem to find it any more. Maybe that's just because the noise volume has gotten too loud for information to be conveyed.
Vegas isn’t shutting down again. There would have to be catastrophic numbers to cause it to shut down again. Bars and taverns not serving food are closed. Movie theaters are finally starting to open soon. Majority of businesses can open...with restrictions. Masks. Capacity. Social distance.
The economy is in an absolute mess here with many restaurants and businesses closing their doors for good. They can’t continue to operate at 50%....yet the powers in charge can’t seem to grasp that concept as they are giving these business owners ZERO guidance on when that rule will be lifted.
The 2 major upscale malls (Summerlin and Town Square) have been ghost towns midweek.
The casinos are picking up a bit. Baseball, hockey and basketball has livened up the sports book and the restaurants somewhat.
I could always be wrong..but I’d wager a bunch the casinos don’t close again. Call me when international travel resumes and Vegas gets a big influx of foreign travelers. Then....we see how it goes. Still don’t think Vegas will shut down again. Frankly, you’re bordering on financial implosion if it happens again AND the worst of this shutdown has not yet been seen. $600 ran out for many who need it. The evictions will soon commence along with bankruptcies and other financial hardship.
La Reve at Wynn is done for good.
I did this at Foxwoods dozens of times.
It is truly bizarre to question this claim. Utterly bizarre. It's akin to questioning whether someone had a sandwich for lunch.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI think calling it a urinal forum now is a mild description of what it has become. It is certainly a racist forum.
I'm disappointed in you Kewlj for failing to point out it was not a urinal, a sewer or a racist site when I ran it. You should have pointed out that I gave the site (gave not sold) to Todd Witteles (aka Dan Druff) more than three years ago because I was tired of deleting offensive posts and I didnt want to be held responsible for any offensive or unlawful postings on the site. Witteles and no one else is the sole administrator of that site now and it appears that his desire for "free speech" is more important than stopping racist remarks, as well as the discrimination and perhaps even illegal activities that are promoted there.
For the record, I also revealed how over the years Rob Singer misled me about his video poker plays and claims.
I washed my hands of the whole mess, and frankly I hope federal laws are changed to make the site responsible for what is posted on it.
It's not really Mendelson's fault what's happened at VCT. He facilitated Singer's nonsense for a long time, but that was his only real contribution to the current mess. Singer now treats Alan worse than he treats KewlJ and me, which takes some doing from a vulgar vitriol perspective. A lot of the folks there have gone all alt-right with a vengeance. Once people got religion, it all went to hell from a communications angle.
I have people there lying about me in truly pitiful ways, and they know better. Not Mendelson's fault, either ethically or legally.
Quote: sabreI've sat at a middle seat in a blackjack game and kept track of the count at the next table over for several rounds in order to decide whether to switch tables. I did this while tracking the count at the table I was at. I did it inconspicuously. Yes, there are times where the positioning of other players makes this not doable.
I did this at Foxwoods dozens of times.
It is truly bizarre to question this claim. Utterly bizarre. It's akin to questioning whether someone had a sandwich for lunch.
I liken it to watching eight college football games simultaneously with the sound off and knowing down and distance and score and what plays are run against what defenses the entire time. Used to be able to do that in my 20's and 30's. Now, either because I'm mentally slower or there's too much no huddle, I can do five. Six is stretching it.
The point is, it seems impossible to a civilian. But it's routine if this is what you do for a living for 40 years.
Quote: redietzI liken it to watching eight college football games simultaneously with the sound off and knowing down and distance and score and what plays are run against what defenses the entire time. Used to be able to do that in my 20's and 30's. Now, either because I'm mentally slower or there's too much no huddle, I can do five. Six is stretching it.
The point is, it seems impossible to a civilian. But it's routine if this is what you do for a living for 40 years.
If a task can only be accomplished by the few pros who work at it on a daily basis, I'd say it was a difficult task. Would you agree that less than one percent of blackjack players in casinos can track two tables? I'd wager 99% of them can't. It's possible, but extremely difficult.
Quote: billryanIf a task can only be accomplished by the few pros who work at it on a daily basis, I'd say it was a difficult task. Would you agree that less than one percent of blackjack players in casinos can track two tables? I'd wager 99% of them can't. It's possible, but extremely difficult.
I would think it would be higher than 1% if each person committed 100 to 200 hours practicing.
Quote: DRichI would think it would be higher than 1% if each person committed 100 to 200 hours practicing.
You mean after they spent several hundred hours learning to count in the first place, then put in another couple dozen learning the indices? Smashing a cinder block with your bare hands is also a skill most people could learn. It's also almost as useful.
I'm sitting at table A betting $25 a hand in a mostly neutral spot. Table B has the count go way positive. Problem is I'm in the middle of a hand. How many times will I be able to finish up and jump to the other table before the dealer starts the next hand, while raising my bet from $25 to $100? It seems like an awful lot of effort for very little gain. I'd think the ability to track two tables while standing twenty feet away having a smoke would be a much better skill to practice.
Do mods no longer say when and why someone is suspended?
Quote: kewljDid 21forme really get suspended for calling someone a "hack"?
Do mods no longer say when and why someone is suspended?
Sometimes they do.
There appears to only be two mods right now, Wizard and Oncedear.
BBB was quite involved here so her disappearance is exacerbated.
Face chimed in sporadically but I haven't seen him since March or April.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165Quote: kewljDid 21forme really get suspended for calling someone a "hack"?
Do mods no longer say when and why someone is suspended?
Quote: OnceDearhttps://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/5288-suspension-list/#post71165
Again, I ask, is calling someone a "hack" an insult?
My understanding is that "hack" is sort of an unfavorable term to describe journalist, who's work you don't feel to be of a certain quality or standard.
So Alan is NOT a journalist! Alan WAS a journalist 20 years ago, I believe a consumer journalist, the guys that give fair and honest opinions of products and services for the TV station.
Now Alan is a pitchman, using his name and credibility in his former job, to endorsing products THAT PAY HIM TO ENDORSE THEIR PRODUCTS. That seems the very definition of a hack.
And regarding this discussion, of tracking a second table, Alan has based his argument, in part on his journalism background. Three years ago when this discussion started, Alan jumped up at 3 am and ran to Mirage and took intentionally blurry pictures of a blackjack table and said "see it can't be done". That was not the act of a journalist. That was clearly the act of a hack.
Quote: kewljAgain, I ask, is calling someone a "hack" an insult?
My understanding is that "hack" is sort of an unfavorable term to describe journalist, who's work you don't feel to be of a certain quality or standard.
So Alan is NOT a journalist! Alan WAS a journalist 20 years ago, I believe a consumer journalist, the guys that give fair and honest opinions of products and services for the TV station.
Now Alan is a pitchman, using his name and credibility in his former job, to endorsing products THAT PAY HIM TO ENDORSE THEIR PRODUCTS. That seems the very definition of a hack.
And regarding this discussion, of tracking a second table, Alan has based his argument, in part on his journalism background. Three years ago when this discussion started, Alan jumped up at 3 am and ran to Mirage and took intentionally blurry pictures of a blackjack table and said "see it can't be done". That was not the act of a journalist. That was clearly the act of a hack.
Best thing is to avoid any names period.
Even truth can be insulting.
I am 5'3 and have been called short many times. It's true I am short, I recognize that, but please don't call me short.
BTW, when it comes to stocks, please don't call me short either :)
The problem with suspending someone for calling someone else a hack is that it's just mildly pejorative and it's a very subjective call. Like, technically, if someone calls me a "tout" as opposed to a "handicapper," that's about on the same level as "hack" versus "journalist." Or calling an attorney a "mouthpiece." All about the same.
I went to the big mall today and (not counting too well because I'm exhausted walking around with absolutely nowhere to sit and the water fountains for drinking are shut off) maybe a third of stores are closed, having a going out of business sale, or are already cleared out since the mall opened 6 weeks ago. Wanna buy something at the food court, take it outside. Paid for my $1.08 BK frozen Fanta on a credit card, so there goes some of that profit margin.
Quote: 21formea hack/compulsive gambler,
Kewlj you are very selective in your quotes.
Quote: AlanMendelsonKewlj you are very selective in your quotes.
What are you saying, that it was the degenerate gambler part that you cried to management about?
You have told us that you have won 100k several times from a casino and yet still never had a winning year.
You got married at a craps table in a casino.
These are not normal behaviors, but rather that of someone with a problem. And if that is not enough, your own son, came to a forum that you participated on, declaring that you were a degenerate gambler. He said your gambling left you unable to pay your debts to him and others. He said it has effected your relationship with your children and grandchildren. He stated that you are broke most months several days after you get your pension and social security. Are we supposed to just ignore all that? Not talk about it? Pretend it isn't there, when it is completely related to the anti-AP position you always take with me and other AP's.
It doesn't make you a bad person, in my mind. People make choices. Like I said, "it is what it is". But I'll be damned if we are supposed to pretend otherwise when we get into a topic that your "issue" is why you are trying to discredit others.
Quote: kewljWhat are you saying, that it was the degenerate gambler part that you cried to management about?
You have told us that you have won 100k several times from a casino and yet still never had a winning year.
You got married at a craps table in a casino.
These are not normal behaviors, but rather that of someone with a problem. And if that is not enough, your own son, came to a forum that you participated on, declaring that you were a degenerate gambler. He said your gambling left you unable to pay your debts to him and others. He said it has effected your relationship with your children and grandchildren. He stated that you are broke most months several days after you get your pension and social security. Are we supposed to just ignore all that? Not talk about it? Pretend it isn't there, when it is completely related to the anti-AP position you always take with me and other AP's.
You are perpetuating the lies. You owe me an apology for this personal attack.
Quote: AlanMendelsonYou are perpetuating the lies. You owe me an apology for this personal attack.
What did I say that isn't true?
You didn't tell us you won 100k several times and still never had a winning year?
You didn't get married at a craps table? You showed pictures.
Your son didn't come to a forum you were on and announce these things?
Tell me where I lied?
I will stop now and I am sorry if I made you feel bad, but you know this is directly related to the anti-AP position you take against me and every AP. And I don't think someone should be suspended for refusing to look the other way and pretend these things didn't happen.
Quote: kewljWhat did I say that isn't true?
You didn't tell us you won 100k several times and still never had a winning year?
You didn't get married at a craps table? You showed pictures.
Your son didn't come to a forum you were on and announce these things?
Tell me where I lied?
I will stop now and I am sorry if I made you feel bad, but you know this is directly related to the anti-AP position you take against me and every AP. And I don't think someone should be suspended for refusing to look the other way and pretend these things didn't happen.
Compare this to your previous post. Once again you are very selective in what you quote.
Quote: 21forme...he appears to be a hack/compulsive gambler, not an AP.
I'd like some clarification about suspensions:
1. Was 21forme suspended for three days for the above quoted phrase? That phrase alone in his reply, or other words as well?
2. Is there no longer any announcement of a suspension other than changing the color of the suspendee's name? If this were Soviet Russia, would he also have been erased from any published photographs in which he appears next or near any admin?
3. Absent any announcement as to the specific phrase that triggered a suspensioon, other than reading the rules, is there any practical way to determine the reason for a suspension, so that others may go forth and not offend in a similar fashion?
4. Are the current rules as easily discerned and understood as the Talmud?
5. Under the rules, is it not possible to suspend a ham sandwich?
6. But seriously (a situation almost impossible to contemplate considering the current state of rules enforcement), can you please tell me if the following phrases are suspension-worthy:
6a. "you are a hack"
6b. "you appear to be a hack"
6c. "I think you are a hack"
6d. "In my opinion, you are a hack"
6e. "My wife, girlfriend, dog or pet rock told me that SHE thinks you are a hack"
6f. "Even though I have no problem with you and have submitted your name to the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, at least one other person I know has said that THEY think you are a hack."
6g. "A member in good standing in this forum, whom I do not name, appears to be a hack."
6h. "I think I myself am a hack." (Obviously a self-inflicted offense where the only offended person is the potential suspendee.
6i. "I agree with 21forme. He's right. I am a hack and he is correct in pointing it out. I am not offended." Can the suspension be lifted?
I live in a condominium complex where there is a woman who goes around every morning with a clipboard looking for people who have cut their lawn too short, or not short enough. I'm going to suggest that she join this forum and, first thing, print down a copy of the rules for her clipboard.
I hope I don't get suspended for this reply.
Quote: racquetI'd like some clarification about suspensions:
1. Was 21forme suspended for three days for the above quoted phrase? That phrase alone in his reply, or other words as well?
2. Is there no longer any announcement of a suspension other than changing the color of the suspendee's name? If this were Soviet Russia, would he also have been erased from any published photographs in which he appears next or near any admin?
3. Absent any announcement as to the specific phrase that triggered a suspensioon, other than reading the rules, is there any practical way to determine the reason for a suspension, so that others may go forth and not offend in a similar fashion?
4. Are the current rules as easily discerned and understood as the Talmud?
5. Under the rules, is it not possible to suspend a ham sandwich?
6. But seriously (a situation almost impossible to contemplate considering the current state of rules enforcement), can you please tell me if the following phrases are suspension-worthy:
6a. "you are a hack"
6b. "you appear to be a hack"
6c. "I think you are a hack"
6d. "In my opinion, you are a hack"
6e. "My wife, girlfriend, dog or pet rock told me that SHE thinks you are a hack"
6f. "Even though I have no problem with you and have submitted your name to the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, at least one other person I know has said that THEY think you are a hack."
6g. "A member in good standing in this forum, whom I do not name, appears to be a hack."
6h. "I think I myself am a hack." (Obviously a self-inflicted offense where the only offended person is the potential suspendee.
6i. "I agree with 21forme. He's right. I am a hack and he is correct in pointing it out. I am not offended." Can the suspension be lifted?
I live in a condominium complex where there is a woman who goes around every morning with a clipboard looking for people who have cut their lawn too short, or not short enough. I'm going to suggest that she join this forum and, first thing, print down a copy of the rules for her clipboard.
I hope I don't get suspended for this reply.
Good questions. I'm not offended being called a hack.
Quote: kewljThese are not normal behaviors, but rather that of someone with a problem.
Are there other wedding venues that indicate someone has a problem of some sort?
For instance, if a couple were to marry at some sporting event, or perhaps at a remote temple up on some mountain far from home, should they be called out as being people with a problem?
Quote: racquetI'd like some clarification about suspensions
Are you of the opinion that the suspended member did not intend to insult Alan with the offending post?
Quote: racquetI'd like some clarification about suspensions:
1. Was 21forme suspended for three days for the above quoted phrase? That phrase alone in his reply, or other words as well?
2. Is there no longer any announcement of a suspension other than changing the color of the suspendee's name? If this were Soviet Russia, would he also have been erased from any published photographs in which he appears next or near any admin?
3. Absent any announcement as to the specific phrase that triggered a suspensioon, other than reading the rules, is there any practical way to determine the reason for a suspension, so that others may go forth and not offend in a similar fashion?
4. Are the current rules as easily discerned and understood as the Talmud?
5. Under the rules, is it not possible to suspend a ham sandwich?
6. But seriously (a situation almost impossible to contemplate considering the current state of rules enforcement), can you please tell me if the following phrases are suspension-worthy:
6a. "you are a hack"
6b. "you appear to be a hack"
6c. "I think you are a hack"
6d. "In my opinion, you are a hack"
6e. "My wife, girlfriend, dog or pet rock told me that SHE thinks you are a hack"
6f. "Even though I have no problem with you and have submitted your name to the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, at least one other person I know has said that THEY think you are a hack."
6g. "A member in good standing in this forum, whom I do not name, appears to be a hack."
6h. "I think I myself am a hack." (Obviously a self-inflicted offense where the only offended person is the potential suspendee.
6i. "I agree with 21forme. He's right. I am a hack and he is correct in pointing it out. I am not offended." Can the suspension be lifted?
I live in a condominium complex where there is a woman who goes around every morning with a clipboard looking for people who have cut their lawn too short, or not short enough. I'm going to suggest that she join this forum and, first thing, print down a copy of the rules for her clipboard.
I hope I don't get suspended for this reply.
I did a piece about Hunter Thompson in my blog recently where I referred to myself as a hack. Now that I know it's a "really bad thing" to be a hack, I'll add some adjectives, like generous, mild-mannered hack or thunderous hack or journeyman hack or something.
Quote: redietzNow that I know it's a "really bad thing" to be a hack
Would you agree that it's possible to deliberately insult someone without calling them an offensive name?
Quote: coachbellyWould you agree that it's possible to deliberately insult someone without calling them an offensive name?
Of course.
Quote: coachbellyAre you of the opinion that the suspended member did not intend to insult Alan with the offending post?
Oh, so the intention of the speaker -- that's ALSO part of the equation. Great. We won't just need a dictionary, we'll also need a mind reader.
Are you of the opinion that if the suspended member did not INTEND to insult Alan, he should NOT be suspended?
The lack of intention could be inadvertent, because 21forme was not aware that the word hack was insulting. Or it could be innocent, in that 21forme intended it as a joke or offhand comment.
Perhaps Alan's background or experience is different from 21forme, and so he (Alan) considers the term offensive, unbeknownst to anyone. There's been a reply above where someone says he would NOT be offended to be called a hack,. So Alan needs to take offense for it to be chargable? Who with the power to suspend someone talked to Alan to see if he was, in fact, offended?
All of this is irrelevant unless the intent of the alleged offender, the attitude or reaction of the victim, or any other mitigating circumstances are stated in the rules. Are they?
I've read responses to discussions about the rules that say, essentially, that it's a private forum and that Wizard, or other specific people, can be totally arbitrary about what is allowed, and what is not. If that's true, then here are the rules:
1. What we say goes.
2. For anything else, refer to Rule 1.
If that is not the case, and this forum has more than the two rules stated above, then the rules should be clear, subject to explanation, and not arbitrary and varying depending on some unknown administrator's whim.
I've asked a series of questions in an earlier post. Is anyone in authority going to answer them, or there are, in reality, just the two rules?
Quote: kewljAgain, I ask, is calling someone a "hack" an insult?
Let's see what Dictionary.com says.
Quote: Dictionary.comHack (noun):
1. a person, as an artist or writer, who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work; one who produces banal and mediocre work in the hope of gaining commercial success in the arts: As a painter, he was little more than a hack.
2. a professional who renounces or surrenders individual independence, integrity, belief, etc., in return for money or other reward in the performance of a task normally thought of as involving a strong personal commitment: a political hack.
Quote: kjMy understanding is that "hack" is sort of an unfavorable term to describe journalist, who's work you don't feel to be of a certain quality or standard.
So Alan is NOT a journalist! Alan WAS a journalist 20 years ago, I believe a consumer journalist, the guys that give fair and honest opinions of products and services for the TV station.
Now Alan is a pitchman, using his name and credibility in his former job, to endorsing products THAT PAY HIM TO ENDORSE THEIR PRODUCTS. That seems the very definition of a hack.
And regarding this discussion, of tracking a second table, Alan has based his argument, in part on his journalism background. Three years ago when this discussion started, Alan jumped up at 3 am and ran to Mirage and took intentionally blurry pictures of a blackjack table and said "see it can't be done". That was not the act of a journalist. That was clearly the act of a hack.
A precedent has long been set that personal insults, even if backed up with facts to show them as true statements, are still insults. Otherwise, we mods would have to have trials on the truthfulness of insults all the time. The definition of hack is definitely unfavorable and goes beyond just a pitchman, but one who has abandoned his ethics to sell anything.
Another post called Alan a "compulsive gambler," which also merits a suspension for personal insult, despite some supporting evidence.
Verdict -- three days.
Quote: racquetAre you of the opinion that if the suspended member did not INTEND to insult Alan, he should NOT be suspended?
No need for a mind reader, it was obvious that the suspended member intended to insult Alan.
It hasn't been established that use of the word hack was the only reason for the suspension, although that seems to be your focus.
Are you of the opinion that the suspended member did not intend to insult Alan with the offending post?
"a person... who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work"
So, without singling out Alan, about whom I have no opinion, if I say "I think that [insert name here] is a person who exploits, for money, his or her creative ability or training in the production of dull, unimaginative, and trite work", would I be subject to suspension?
Wizard, if I were to state that I think that your work is "dull, unimaginative, and trite", would you suspend me? You clearly meet the other criteria for hackdom. You do get paid for your work (I would hope!). You have creative ability and training. You produce things - videos, articles, websites...).
In order to be a hack, does ALL of your work need to be dull, unimaginative and trite, or just one example? I'm still reviewing your recent post on the game of checkers. My review, if published here, might warrant a three day suspension. Before I post it, could you file an opinion in advance if I say I doubt it's going to get the Pulitzer prize?
If you want to talk about counting 2 tables, start a thread about it.
Quote: coachbellyNo need for a mind reader, it was obvious that the suspended member intended to insult Alan.
It hasn't been established that use of the word hack was the only reason for the suspension, although that seems to be your focus.
Are you of the opinion that the suspended member did not intend to insult Alan with the offending post?
I don't think it's obvious, and my prior response to Mike makes a point that Mike's official definition of the word "hack" can in fact describe almost anyone that publishes almost anything, given that anyone else is entitled to an opinion about what it says. Some folks in France think Jerry Lewis is a comedy god. I think he's a hack.
Mike has replied with the reason for the suspension. He mentions only "hack". Mike - any other offenses in the post?
The currently established definition of "hack", in fact, it's first or primary definition, refers to an opinion about someone's work. I do not have or need an opinion about motive. The word, as defined, does not refer to the individual, but rather his work.
Jerry Lewis raised millions of dollars to help defeat muscular dystrophy. He was a kind, gentle, caring, giving person who generously dedicated a significant portion of his personal and professional life to helping others.
Still and all, a hack.
Quote: WizardLet's see what Dictionary.com says.
A precedent has long been set that personal insults, even if backed up with facts, are still insults. Otherwise, we mods would have to have trials on the truthfulness of insults all the time. The definition of hack is definitely unfavorable and goes beyond just a pitchman, but one who has abandoned his ethics to sell anything.
Verdict -- three days.
LOL. I referred to myself as a hack. Get out the red pen. How long am I out?
Quote: SOOPOOKewlj..... why on earth would you make 30 or so posts about your ability to count two tables in the "Is Vegas opening" thread? You know I like you. Why waste your time on convincing the unconvinceable? Ignore him when you return. Get the value from the forum that is there without wasting your time arguing with someone who claims to have rolled 18 yo's in a row!
If you want to talk about counting 2 tables, start a thread about it.
Now here's a rule I would greatly appreciate.
All replies to any post on this site MUST conform to the title of the thread. Any violation of this rule will result in an IMMEDIATE suspension of SIX days.
By my anecdotal review, about 80% of all threads that I follow diverge from their original posted title within a dozen replies. I am almost always certain that if I see a thread that has grown to more than five pages, that it's sure to be off-topic.
There Oughta Be A Law.
Quote: redietzI referred to myself as a hack.
Did you intend it to be self-deprecating?
