Railroad Pass Zero Zero Roulette
Poll
 | 4 votes (26.66%) | ||
| | 2 votes (13.33%) | ||
| | 2 votes (13.33%) | ||
| | 8 votes (53.33%) | ||
| | 2 votes (13.33%) | ||
| | 4 votes (26.66%) |
15 members have voted
Question for the poll is: what is your preferred number of zeros on a wheel.
Quote: TheoHuxtableA friend of mine drove past RP and says their marquee is advertising a Saturday night promotion for which they will be spinning a zero HE roulette wheel. Since there's been so much recent interest in the amount of zeroes casinos put on their wheels I figured I'd ask if anyone knew about this promo? I couldn't find it on their website.
Question for the poll is: what is your preferred number of zeros on a wheel.
Roulette doesn't interest me. But I liked this casino, though it's been years.
At the risk of looking like I'm hijacking this thread, I really just wanted to ask if anyone gets mail of any sort from the "new" management. I know they used to give ice in the winter time. Still liked the place, though.
Ain't nuthin' 'bout no zero house edge roulette on their Blog.
Ain't nuthin' 'bout no zero house edge roulette on their Facebook Page.
Ain't nuthin' 'bout no zero house edge roulette on their Twitter Feed.
So I sure ain't a gonna start hitching my way to Vegas.
Good luck with it though. If it exists, I hope you do well.
Now consider Our Fearless Leader who said on YouTube that he plays The Don't Pass because it is the BEST bet even though its a real slim margin between The Wrong Way and the Right Way bettors.
So IF this promo does exist... I have a feeling Fearless Leader will wander away from the craps table and wander over to zero house edge roulette because zero is less than 1.414 or something like that.
Railroad Pass caters to the RV crowd, the Truckers crowd and other travellers but lets face it, its mainly a locals casino. So it would really be locals that would benefit from any such Zero House Edge Roulette but what is essential is some verification of does this actually exist, when does it take place.
If nothing else can someone who is already in Vegas do a "drive by" and snap any such sign on the marquee?
Quote: DJTeddyBearI've always said that a casino can offer a zero house edge game and players would still lose due to Martingalling and table limits.
This question has fascinated me for awhile. I used to believe casinos would beat players on a fair game for the same reasons you just described. However, a fellow gambler changed my mind with this argument: Thinking the casino would come out ahead is the same as saying that if you and I flipped a fair coin a sufficiently large number of times, one of us should be able to come up with a clever betting strategy that makes a long run profit.
Now I'm not sure what to believe...
Quote: TheoHuxtableThis question has fascinated me for awhile. I used to believe casinos would beat players on a fair game for the same reasons you just described.
Now I'm not sure what to believe...
You used to be right and you still are. $:o) The casino would / will win.
Start with the premise that play continues till either the player or the casino go bust and lose their bankroll. That is the test in practice.
In a fair game, the Probability of player beating the casino = (Player Bankroll)/((Player Bankroll)+(Casino Bankroll))
which approximates to (Player Bankroll)/(Casino Bankroll) Which generally approximates to zero.
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/oncedear/blog/2/#post1370
However, if the player sets a less ambitious objective of, say turn $10,000 into $10,100 then his probability of success would be 99% with a 1% chance of going bust.
Quote: OnceDear
In a fair game, the Probability of player beating the casino = (Player Bankroll)/((Player Bankroll)+(Casino Bankroll))
which approximates to (Player Bankroll)/(Casino Bankroll) Which generally approximates to zero.
Therefore, if the player has a larger bankroll than the casino the player should always win.
I don't think it would be impossible to come up with a bigger bankroll than Railroad pass.
Quote: Original PostA friend of mine drove past RP and says their marquee is advertising a Saturday night promotion for which they will be spinning a zero HE roulette wheel.
I have contacted the online media coordinator at Railroad Pass Hotel and Casino and asked for confirmation of this marquee posting as well as more details about the promotion's details.
When, as and if I receive a response, I will post it in this thread.
DeSimone owns the Railroad Pass so its bankroll ain't as think as you might think.
Quote: OnceDearYou used to be right and you still are. $:o) The casino would / will win.
Start with the premise that play continues till either the player or the casino go bust and lose their bankroll. That is the test in practice.
In a fair game, the Probability of player beating the casino = (Player Bankroll)/((Player Bankroll)+(Casino Bankroll))
which approximates to (Player Bankroll)/(Casino Bankroll) Which generally approximates to zero.
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/oncedear/blog/2/#post1370
However, if the player sets a less ambitious objective of, say turn $10,000 into $10,100 then his probability of success would be 99% with a 1% chance of going bust.
Thank you very much for the link, it was an informative read. From the casino's perspective would the equation be: P(success)<= [casino bankroll]/([casino bankroll]+[the combined bankroll of every player in action])?
If this is the case, I argue that an optimally run casino puts all of its bankroll in action at all times so they can maximize the value of the BR (whats the point of having a $100M bankroll if only $1M is ever in action?). I'm not saying a casino puts all its BR in action against a single player, they spread this action across thousands of players to greatly reduce variance. But, regardless of how the action is spread [the combined bankroll of all players in action]=[casino bankroll]. Therefore p(success)<=0.50 which keeps the fair game at zero HE.
Yes, but only if the two possible outcomes were (a) Casino goes bust or (b) ALL players go bust.Quote: TheoHuxtableThank you very much for the link, it was an informative read. From the casino's perspective would the equation be: P(success)<= [casino bankroll]/([casino bankroll]+[the combined bankroll of every player in action])?
The casino would probably be using this zero edge game as a promotion to drag punters in through the door to be get their pockets emptied on other games. They probably set aside a modest marketing budget as the bankroll on this. Why put all their action on a zero edge game when they are offering other games that also need bankrolling.Quote:If this is the case, I argue that an optimally run casino puts all of its bankroll in action at all times so they can maximize the value of the BR (whats the point of having a $100M bankroll if only $1M is ever in action?). I'm not saying a casino puts all its BR in action against a single player, they spread this action across thousands of players to greatly reduce variance. But, regardless of how the action is spread [the combined bankroll of all players in action]=[casino bankroll]. Therefore p(success)<=0.50 which keeps the fair game at zero HE.
Quote: OnceDearYes, but only if the two possible outcomes were (a) Casino goes bust or (b) ALL players go bust.
If it is the case that the party with the bigger bankroll is +EV on a fair game then it is very possible that [combined bankroll of all gamblers in the universe] > [casino X's bankroll]. Say casino X has a $100 BR. Everyday for the next millenia a patron comes in and wagers $1 on a fair coin flip. Casino X is doomed for failure.
It's just very hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that a negative expectation game cannot be beaten over the long run, but a zero expectation game is almost certainly beatable over the long run.
Quote:The casino would probably be using this zero edge game as a promotion to drag punters in through the door to be get their pockets emptied on other games. They probably set aside a modest marketing budget as the bankroll on this. Why put all their action on a zero edge game when they are offering other games that also need bankrolling.
Yes, I agree that nothing I've written is anywhere close to what has or will actually occur in a live casino environment. I'm approaching from the pure math point of view. Trying to find some sort of Fundamental Theorem of Casino...
Quote: OnceDear...The casino would probably be using this zero edge game as a promotion to drag punters in through the door to be get their pockets emptied on other games. They probably set aside a modest marketing budget as the bankroll on this. Why put all their action on a zero edge game when they are offering other games that also need bankrolling.
I think this is the case as well. It cannot sustain the game in the long run due to their overhead. Salaries, insurance, HVAC, security, etc. When a player sits down at this table at a locals casino, the joint is probably playing catchup. Hopefully, the player will put a few bucks in a VP machine, or play some BJ waiting for a seat to open. RRP doesn't have whales, like the casinos on the Strip, whose losses subsidize all the other small winners.
Nonsense.Quote: DJTeddyBearI've always said that a casino can offer a zero house edge game and players would still lose due to Martingalling and table limits.
Assume both the player and casino have finite wealth (betting units) available at a game.. Then with absolute certainty, in the long run either the player will go bust or the casino will go bust. The respective probabilities of each party going bust are directly proportional to their relative bankroll sizes, the house edge and the variance of the game. There are formulas that give approximations to these probabilities, Google is your friend.
Even if the player is playing a penny slot machine with a $1 bankroll and the slot has a 99.9% house edge and the house has a $1B bankroll, the player has a positive probability of busting the house.
Quote: teliotNonsense.
Even if the player is playing a penny slot machine with a $1 bankroll and the slot has a 99.9% house edge and the house has a $1B bankroll, the player has a positive probability of busting the house.
Interesting. I would find it fascinating if you had the time to expound on this. It seems counter intuitive that the casino with that huge of an edge would be the underdog with those bankrolls.
Quote: teliot...the player has a positive probability of busting the house.
He didn't say that the casino would be the underdog or that the player had an advantage. He said that the outcome of the player winning the casino's bankroll has a probability that is greater than zero, though it would probably be very, very close to that.Quote: DRichIt seems counter intuitive that the casino with that huge of an edge would be the underdog with those bankrolls.
Quote: DocHe didn't say that the casino would be the underdog or that the player had an advantage. He said that the outcome of the player winning the casino's bankroll has a probability that is greater than zero, though it would probably be very, very close to that.
You may be right. I interpreted "positive probability" as more likely than not. I have never heard of a negative probability so I looked it up.
"The probability of the outcome of an experiment is never negative, but quasiprobability distributions can be defined that allow a negative probability, or quasiprobability for some events. These distributions may apply to unobservable events or conditional probabilities." wikipedia
Now I guess I have to look up quasiprobability.
One table only. Guy said the promotion is scheduled to run all day but casino reserves right to end it early.
They may do it again if successful.
You will very probably personally experience the difficulty of surmounting the Bankroll disadvantage. You may gain an appreciation of the merit of setting reasonable goals for wins, perhaps as low as 3x for the punter's own stake.
You will also experience the Variance concept starkly demonstrated.
You will also very probably personally experience the negative effects of player emotions such as impatience, anger, and greed.
The RailRoad Pass Casino has nothing to fear by offering its Roulette novelty. Variance is far larger if the win probability is less than 50%.
Quote: billryanTomorrow, Saturday Feb. 11, they will have no zero roulette. Game has two zeroes but if it lands on either, any bet is a push.
One table only. Guy said the promotion is scheduled to run all day but casino reserves right to end it early.
They may do it again if successful.
Thank you.
So much for the casino's on-line presence, no reply from their facebook page, their blog, their twitter feed or anything.
BillRyan says one, if that's true, then I could see why you wouldn't want a ton of people showing up.
To the contrary the casino would love to have people show up and be forced to wander to different games for a while so as to have the crowds diminish at the special roulette table. As long as its somewhat manageable, its still money in the bank for the casino even if the zero-zeroes table is a bit of a loss leader for them.Quote: Mission146. . . then I could see why you wouldn't want a ton of people showing up.
Quote: FleaStiffTo the contrary the casino would love to have people show up and be forced to wander to different games for a while so as to have the crowds diminish at the special roulette table. As long as its somewhat manageable, its still money in the bank for the casino even if the zero-zeroes table is a bit of a loss leader for them.
I both agree and disagree with that. I think you want them to show up, to a point, and have to play the other games. I think if you drastically overmarket it and get throngs (relative to the size) of people in there, then it becomes very clear what you've done and why you've done it.
You want people to feel like maybe they can get a shot to play, but not people griping because there is such a huge amount of people there they feel like they will never get on, while not technically a bait and switch, it could still feel like one.
Its like the M Resort's holiday pies and holiday meals pickup program... its a quick in and out affair IF you want it to be, but otherwise you can stay and take a chance at the casino if you want to.
Some casinos have these 'just swipe your card' promos but Everybody and his Brother In Law is already on line ahead of you and all seem to be swipeing cards for all their friends as well.
Someone once commented that the average age at the Rail Road Pass Casino was 136. Its a bit of an exaggeration. Let's face it though. Railroad pass has that huge parking lot and Travel Center and is making a big play for Truck Drivers, RV drivers and just road traffic in general. So they probably do want the business and their Saturday Specials are enough to satisfy anyone who might be miffed if the crowds at the roulette table are excessive. Truck drivers get special rates, pets are welcome, there is usually a way to lure crowds there, so I think they are just trying this out "for size" and will see how it goes.
First guy I asked knew nothing about it.
I just was passing by after dropping something off in Boulder, and remembered this thread.
This, they promoted.
Hey, free is free.Quote: billryanThis, they promoted.
Quote: billryanBTW- On Monday, earn ten slot points or get a suited BJ on a table and you get a free pie. I think I read they were Marie Callenders. Choice of Apple or Cherry.
This, they promoted.
How does this place stay in business?
Quote: djatcHow does this place stay in business?
I wonder the same thing about the free Blue Bunny Ice Cream bar with every $25 Jackpot at the El Cortez. Granted it's only on Wednesdays. But if you plan your week right, and have a nice supply of Dry Ice, you could break the place.
Of course, management does reserve all rights.
Quote: BozI wonder the same thing about the free Blue Bunny Ice Cream bar with every $25 Jackpot at the El Cortez. Granted it's only on Wednesdays. But if you plan your week right, and have a nice supply of Dry Ice, you could break the place.
Of course, management does reserve all rights.
Hit a jackpot for $25 and get free ice cream, you say?
