LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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November 16th, 2016 at 10:46:25 AM permalink
If, like me, you did not attend the Cutting Edge Table Games conference held recently in Lost Wages, NV, then you may find this write-up interesting. Especially if you play table games. And, even more so, if you feel casinos have been running you and all the other players through the wringer in recent times.

Casino Table Game Squeeze

In short, the review suggests the reason casinos are screaming is not because they cannot attract the fabled millennials, but because they became so damn greedy as they try to squeeze players more and more to benefit stockholders. To that, I say, Amen! I've seen it. You've probably seen it. Many who have posted in WoV comment about it.

But, hullo? Is anyone in corporate casino listening? It ain't about the stockholders, it's about the customers. Casinos are not in the "squeeze" business. They are in the "people" business, as every successful manager in almost any business knows. Unfortunately, this lesson seems to be falling on deaf ears.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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November 16th, 2016 at 1:32:00 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

If, like me, you did not attend the Cutting Edge Table Games conference held recently in Lost Wages, NV, then you may find this write-up interesting. Especially if you play table games. And, even more so, if you feel casinos have been running you and all the other players through the wringer in recent times.

Casino Table Game Squeeze

In short, the review suggests the reason casinos are screaming is not because they cannot attract the fabled millennials, but because they became so damn greedy as they try to squeeze players more and more to benefit stockholders. To that, I say, Amen! I've seen it. You've probably seen it. Many who have posted in WoV comment about it.

But, hullo? Is anyone in corporate casino listening? It ain't about the stockholders, it's about the customers. Casinos are not in the "squeeze" business. They are in the "people" business, as every successful manager in almost any business knows. Unfortunately, this lesson seems to be falling on deaf ears.



I find that notion to be the axact opposite of reality in 95% of markets. Las Vegas could be the major abstainer. From my experience and the many Table Games Directors I've communicated with, thhe trend for the last 5 years has been toward reduced house edges on carnival games and longer length of play. I personally had to remove a game I really liked due to it holding too much.

House edges on main bets on Carnival games have inched lower and lower since 3.51% of Let it Ride, 5.22% on Caribbean Stud and 3.37% of Three Card Poker.

Pai Gow Poker at 1.50%, Heads Up Holdem at 2.36%, High Card Flush at 2.64%, and Ultimate Texas Holdem at 2.19% are just a few examples.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
jopke
jopke
Joined: Aug 14, 2012
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November 16th, 2016 at 2:39:28 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Ultimate Texas Holdem at 2.19%



What do you think the realized house edge is, considering very few people play UTH properly? I'd expect it to be more than the 3.37% of 3CP
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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November 16th, 2016 at 2:54:59 PM permalink
Quote: jopke

What do you think the realized house edge is, considering very few people play UTH properly? I'd expect it to be more than the 3.37% of 3CP



Much higher. Probably 7-8% of the ante bet if I had to guess. Not betting 4X preflop enough is the major mistake most players make.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 16th, 2016 at 2:59:15 PM permalink
Raising 3x instead of 4x on raise opportunities alone adds 7.7%
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Boz
Boz
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November 16th, 2016 at 3:17:32 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13


I personally had to remove a game I really liked due to it holding too much.
ZCore13





Any chance you can expand on this? Not getting enough play because it was holding too much? Players noticed they didn't last long? Or perhaps it was too hard to understand the strategy?

I believe, perhaps incorrectly, that most players don't give a damn about house edge. Only that they like the game and feel they have a chance to win or make their money last. And no, I don't have the formula to make that happen.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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November 16th, 2016 at 3:43:16 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Any chance you can expand on this? Not getting enough play because it was holding too much? Players noticed they didn't last long? Or perhaps it was too hard to understand the strategy?

I believe, perhaps incorrectly, that most players don't give a damn about house edge. Only that they like the game and feel they have a chance to win or make their money last. And no, I don't have the formula to make that happen.



It was Triple Attack Blackjack. Optimal or even close to optimal play was just too difficult for the average player. We held about 50%. I would have expected mid to high 20's.

The house edge is not what players care about, but it certainly relates to the feel of the game. Nobody likes to lose over and over again or feel like they have no real chance to win.

The formula for where I worked was time on game, but of course had to be balanced with us making our money. The average age of a carded player was 71. You can't kill that demographic or you'll lose them. They want to come in every day and bullshit and drink coffer and eat cheap food. You can't send them away down $500 in 90 minutes.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
jopke
jopke
Joined: Aug 14, 2012
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November 16th, 2016 at 3:55:40 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Raising 3x instead of 4x on raise opportunities alone adds 7.7%



This is why I'd expect Heads Up Hold'em to become player friendly. It makes it harder for them to make egregious mistakes. That said, it might not hold as well as UTH and therefore be seen as less favorable for the casino. I'm sure that tradeoff was on your mind at the time, I'd be curious to know how it is playing out in the real world.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 16th, 2016 at 5:37:38 PM permalink
Quote: jopke

This is why I'd expect Heads Up Hold'em to become player friendly. It makes it harder for them to make egregious mistakes. That said, it might not hold as well as UTH and therefore be seen as less favorable for the casino. I'm sure that tradeoff was on your mind at the time, I'd be curious to know how it is playing out in the real world.



This is absolutely true, and was our experience (Galaxy) on the initial release: it under-held, as people played it a bit better than UTH.
Also, a side bet on HUH called Pocket Bonus, which pays on a pair or an Ace-Face, generally signaled to players a full-raise hand.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

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