pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
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March 3rd, 2011 at 8:39:35 PM permalink
Can luxurious Mandarin Oriental hotel make it here? written by Liz Bentson of the Las Vegas Sun was published a few days ago.


Quote: Liz Benston

The naysayers wondered how long before CityCenter would cough and gasp for air before maybe it would start making money. The answer is now in. Just about every part of CityCenter is making money on its anniversary except one. Disappointing results at Mandarin Oriental...



I am wondering how it is possible to say that CityCenter is making money since every single segment is showing an operational loss. CityCenter showed an operational loss of $103 million for the last quarter of 2010, and $871 million for the entire year.

For the year, MGM Resort reported a loss of $209 million in EBITDA for their 50% of CityCenter.

Those corporate spin control guys really earn their salary. I wonder what their definition of "making money".
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 4th, 2011 at 5:19:15 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I am wondering how it is possible to say that CityCenter is making money since every single segment is showing an operational loss.


I don't know enough about accounting or spin-doctoring to know, but does the answer lie a few paragraphes down?
Quote: Las Vegas Sun

By one earnings measure reported this month by MGM Resorts International, Mandarin reported a loss of $1.3 million in the fourth quarter, but Aria buoyed by its casino made $30.1 million, Crystals mall made $6.1 million and its casino-free Vdara condo-hotel tower made $949,000. These figures represent earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, a primary performance indicator for investors.

Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
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March 4th, 2011 at 5:40:57 AM permalink
Hmmm....

-1.3 +30.1 + 6.1 +.9 = +35.8 for 4th quarter ???

Compared to -209 for the year. ???

Seems as if there must be some missing elements, or there was a big turnaround for the fourth quarter.


Last December, a few days before Cosmopolitan opened, I had a conversation with a man at Aria asking whether he thought the Cosmopolitan would really open that week. He said he was certain it would -- claimed there was a giant tax difference between opening in December vs. January and that was why Aria had opened in December 2009. Anyone know more about this "tax" issue at the end of the year?
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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March 4th, 2011 at 5:46:21 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

I am wondering how it is possible to say that CityCenter is making money ...


There is no limit to what a public relations hack will say if given enough money to say it.
ItsCalledSoccer
ItsCalledSoccer
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March 4th, 2011 at 5:55:10 AM permalink
There's no doubt MOIL is a helluva hotel developer/owner/operator, but it did seem a little weird that a non-casino hotel would put itself on the strip. I mean, if there's any place in the entire world where being a non-casino hotel is a minus, isn't it the strip? If you want to stay on a strip hotel, aren't you kind of looking for a hotel/casino? Who says to themselves, "Hey, I want to visit Las Vegas and stay on the strip, but I don't want to stay at a casino/hotel."?

I think MOIL just operates that property for a 3rd-party fee, but I don't know for sure. That would be the best situation for them, but it's never a good thing to have a hotel suffering, particularly a pretty visible one.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 4th, 2011 at 6:32:46 AM permalink
Quote: ItsCalledSoccer

...but it did seem a little weird that a non-casino hotel would put itself on the strip.


Doesn't Trump have a hotel without casino on the strip?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
ItsCalledSoccer
ItsCalledSoccer
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March 4th, 2011 at 6:49:26 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Doesn't Trump have a hotel without casino on the strip?



Yeah, and I think THEhotel is also hotel-no-casino. Out of these three, I think THEhotel is doing the best but Mandalay also has a pretty huge convention area, too.

I don't really know the formula for why THE > MOIL > Trump, or even if that's the real performance ranking of the three. But, while I acknowledge The Donald is >>>>>>> than me at the real estate business, I also think the LV Trump isn't a great idea ... but again, WTF do I know as compared to The Donald? I think it's private, so there's no easy way to get financials ... but it would be interesting to see how it's doing. I don't think Trump would ever let it go under, though.

Trump's hotel also seems a little bit off the beaten path, where MOIL and THE are at least attached to a casino complex. Plus, if you wanted to get technical, then you could argue that the Trump isn't on the strip ... but yeah, that is a little bit of a technicality.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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March 4th, 2011 at 8:53:26 AM permalink
Trump Las Vegas is a product of one of the master's of spin. He calls it a five star hotel, even though none of the major hotel rating systems have given it that high of a rating. AAA rates it four diamonds (the same as Treasure Island and the Mirage). They would have a casino there if they could, but they couldn't get a license, partly because of the number of bankruptcies Donald had in Atlantic City.

Construction cost of Trump Hotel was not exceptionally high compared to competitors. It cost $500m for over 1200 condo/hotel rooms, and 50 suites. In contrast Palms Place cost $650m for 600 condo/hotel rooms and 20 suites. While the cost of the Trump Hotel is high compared to the $50K per room for the local Hampton Inn, it was a fraction of the cost of the other nearby resorts.

In Manhattan, frequently the Econo Lodge is $300/night. With ARIA dropping there rates, and inexpensive options like Monte Carlo next door, it's hard to pay those prices. You can get a suite at the Monte Carlo for less.

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