Horse Racing table game for Casinos

I got my provisional patent, but now I am left with the task of marketing my game to try to generate interest.

If any of you have any ideas to either improve my game or market it I would greatly appreciate the advice. I am a new to the gaming industry. I am thinking about going to G2E this year but I don’t have a strategy to get the attention of game developers.

My game is a simple horse race table game. The current configuration is five horses (represented by colored pucks) that move along a straight-line racetrack with five lanes (one for each horse). Each lane is sectioned off into twenty boxes numbered from 1 to 20. The finish line is between 13 and 14.

Each horse is a different color. There is one six-sided die for each horse that is the same color as that horse. All 5 dice are rolled at once and the number rolled on the die advances the horse of the same color along the track. The race finishes when one horse crosses the finish line; at that time the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners are moved to their respective spots in the winner’s circle. Most races will finish in 3 rounds of dice rolling.

The unique aspect of the game is a fixed handicap system that gives bonuses to certain horses on certain rounds. (i.e. The red horse and the blue horse get +1 to their first round die rolls. The red horse and the green horse get +1 to their die rolls on the second round. The blue horse and the yellow horse get +1 to their die rolls on the third round. And so on.) The handicap system makes for varying payouts for different winners. (i.e. Red horse pay 2:1 for winning while the white horse pays 9:1 for winning.) The handicap is displayed clearly on the game felt.

Players set their wagers on squares and can bet on winners. In-the-money, boxed trifectas, or boxed perfectas. The bets are at the casino’s discretion. You could even bet if the race would finish in 3 rounds or not if you wanted to.

One round of play takes about a minute and a half, about the time it takes to resolve one spin of a roulette wheel. The bets are cleared after each race and the betting is opened up for the next round. All losers are cleared before winners are paid.

The game is very easy for new gamblers to understand and play. I am confident I could teach any dealer to deal this game in less than 4 hours. It is very easy to manage.

Any ideas or criticisms please post here. I am open to any thoughts particularly to marketing, because I am clueless in that area.

Thank you all in advance.

As far as getting ideas, I'd go to G2E and see how other table game vendors market their products. You'll get lots of ideas that way, both good and bad.

One of the requirements of a patent is that it be unique and non-obvious.

While your handicap element is different, the basic game is not unique. I recall playing a similar game at carnivals. Heck, as a DJ, I did a backyard Kentucky Derby party where they had a horse/dice game set up.

But it sounds interesting. If it's patentable, I wish you luck.



If you can, go to G2E - even if it's just for the experience.

For the record, I got the inspiration for my Poker For Roulette idea, as I was flying home from Vegas after pitching a different idea, two weeks before last year's G2E. I wish I would have gone back for it. This will be my first G2E.

There was a game a bit like this called Tug of War. It played for a while in Mississippi, I think Tunica. However, it eventually ran out of steam and I hear made the great scrap heap of table games that didn't make it.

A couple of thoughts:

I like the concept.

This is further down the line, but I think you should use actual horse/jockey pieces, like sigma derby has. This will help drive the horse race theme.

How will the dice be rolled?

How will ties be handled?

This Tug-O-War? I hadn't heard that it was in at Tunica.

Quote: MathExtremist

This Tug-O-War? I hadn't heard that it was in at Tunica.

Yup. I just think it was Tunica, I'm not positive. You might now the inventor, his initials are D.S..

Quite well, in fact. But that's a topic for another discussion.

Quote: VonVester

... I am confident I could teach any dealer to deal this game in less than 4 hours. ...

You need to be able to teach a dealer the game in about 20-30 minutes. A casino manager would shudder if you said 4 hours and, furthermore, would then envisage his/her players having a hard time trying to grasp the game.

I have a friend who developed a horse racing game and finally (after a few years) managed to get the game installed into a casino in the UK. I'm not sure if it's still there.

I like the handicapping concept as it allows different odds much like a typical horse race. O'Sheas, on The Strip, have tried 2 dice games over the last year (both have failed) so they may be open to trying a dice game they liked although they may also be concerned about the previous 2 failures.

What kinds of payoffs can you offer for Trifectas and exactas ? Only 120 combinations for the trifecta and only 20 for the exacta.
Payoffs for place and show in a 5 horse field ? 4 Hours to train? Why so long? Can you provide a drawing or explanation of what the felt would look like ?

I tried to paste a drawing of the game felt but couldn’t figure out how to do it. So I will describe it as best I can.

The top half of the felt is the racing field and the bottom half is the betting area. I envision the betting area as player placed bets around squares that represent the table’s edges. Each bet has its own square. Payouts are displayed within each square.

The racetrack has a lane for each color and the colors are repeated in the betting areas. For trifecta bets, only the first letter of each color is displayed. (i.e. Red, Green, and Yellow finishing order is displayed as RGY.) Since there are 120 trifecta bets, I kept it down to only 10 bets by making all trifecta bets boxed. (therefore Green, Yellow, and Red finishing order is also displayed as RGY.)

The patentable part of the game is the race, and more specifically, the simple handicap system. The race resolves who is in the Win, Place, or Show boxes. (Which are located above the racing lanes to the left.) The casino may set up the betting area anyway they want to create bets on the WIN/PLACE/SHOW order.

This is how the handicap is set up:
Roll Number: 1 2 3 4 5 6
RED------------1 1 0 1 1 0
BLUE-----------1 0 1 0 1 0
GREEN---------0 1 0 1 0 1
YELLOW-------0 0 1 0 0 1
WHITE---------0 0 0 0 0 0

The handicap is shown at the top right of the felt above the racing lanes. A marker would move across the ‘Roll’ number before each roll is started. Bonuses for each horse are read below the marker. Notice above that the RED and BLUE horses get a +1 on the first roll of the race. The whole handicap chart repeats every 6 rolls, so if a very improbable race happens that all the horses limp along with 1’s and 2’s then the 7th roll will move the marker back to #1 roll position. Ties are resolved by rolling only the colors that are tied and bonuses from the handicap system still apply. (i.e. The Yellow horses lands on 15 on the third roll of the dice and is moved to the WIN square. The race is over because one horse passed the finish line between 13 and 14. However, both Red and Blue are on 11 and tied for 2nd place. The dealer moves the marker to the #4 ‘Roll’ position on the handicap chart and rolls the red and blue dice. Red rolls 4 and adds +1 handicap for a total of 5. Blue rolls 3 and has no bonus on the 4th roll. Red is moved to the PLACE square and Blue is moved to the SHOW square.)

After WIN, PLACE, and SHOW are established, all bets are taken down or paid, then all horses are moved back to the gate to start a new race and a new round of betting.

I would like dice rolling to be player rolled, however, palming 5 dice is a huge security risk and the dealer would spend more time rounding up the dice than advancing the race, so I have decided to instead roll the dice in a bowl and slap it on the table, much the way they do in Sic-Bo.

Another random number generator could be a 60-card deck with 10 each of Ace thru 6 and then pull the cards one-at-a-time and lay them beside the gate position of each color. The advantage of this would be to create a history of movement that could be used to resolve doubts without calling surveillance.

Here are some examples of the payouts showing the most frequent and the least frequent. RED Win pays 2:1 (most frequent) and WHITE Win pays 9:1 (least frequent). Trifecta RBG pays 4:1 (most frequent) and Trifecta GYW pays 20:1 (least frequent.). RED In-The-Money pays 1:4 (most frequent) and WHITE In-The-Money pays 6:5 (least frequent). All payouts are 92% to 93% return to the player so the house advantage, as it is set up here, is 7% to 8%.

The 4 hour training time I just made up because that is what my casino allows for a simple game like 3-Card Poker, and I believer this game is even simpler. I taught it to my father-in-law in about 30 minutes and he isn’t a dealer.

Sounds interesting...reminds me of the horse racing game in the MGM...which is obviously not a table game...but I still love that game!

Quote: jsantee97

Sounds interesting...reminds me of the horse racing game in the MGM...which is obviously not a table game...but I still love that game!

That was lots of fun!

I'm finding it hard to follow or visualize without pictures.

Quote: VonVester

I tried to paste a drawing of the game felt but couldn’t figure out how to do it. So I will describe it as best I can.

You need to upload them somewhere, then ling to the images using the formatting codes. Instructions are in the Click here for formatting codes link when posting.

Quote: VonVester

Any ideas or criticisms please post here. I am open to any thoughts particularly to marketing, because I am clueless in that area.

Thank you all in advance.

Here are my thoughts on mechanical horse races.

First, I am a horse player.

Who are you trying to target with this game? I don't think that any slot players will be interested. Neither do I think any real horse players would be interested.

Most people don't understand exactas, trifectas, etc.

One (The emphasis on the word One) of the AC casinos had some sort of horse racing game years ago. I never saw more than one or two people playing it. Most of the time there was no one playing.

As I said, I am a horse player. When I first saw the game in the casino, I looked at it because of curiosity. I can't even remember how you played it. The only thing that I do remember is I NEVER PLAYED IT.

Did I mention that I play the horses?

If the game was a money maker for the casino, it might still be there. It is long gone.

I'm afraid that you're really playing a long shot here.



May the "HORSE" be with you.

It's interesting and curious, but doesn't appeal to me, due to the lack of a decision to be made. More over, it seems like resolution could take a while, but just really return the same thrill as playing big six. If gamblers could 'buy' the dice to roll, it might be of more interest. Also, did you consider no standard dice to creat handicaps, or even 'free' spaces on the track? Might make it simpler than the grid...

VonVester,
If you're serious, then speak to the game distributors at G2E. Prepare some documentation, and pitch the game.
Table game distributors at G2E will be DEQ, Shufflemaster, and Galaxy Gaming, among others; see what they say.
Good luck, it's a tough long road getting a game out...

Quote: FatGeezus

...One (The emphasis on the word One) of the AC casinos had some sort of horse racing game years ago...

I think you're talking about Sigma Derby. There was a two page thread about it that started in January 2010:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/tables/858-is-sigma-derby-beatable/

Thank you for your input gentlemen. I agree that this game will probably not appeal to serious horse gambles because there isn’t any research involved, however, the casual horse gambler picks horses based on their name or because they are the ‘favorite’ and this game might appeal to those players. However, I am hoping it appeals to all casino gamblers regardless of their game of choice.

When I first started dabbling in the prospect of designing a casino game I wanted a game that would require ‘decision-making’. But when I took a close look at the existing games I discovered that decision-making is just a façade. When playing Blackjack, the game credited for having the most opportunity to make decisions, it is really just a matter of playing the best probabilities. Follow the strategy card and you get your best payouts. So even in BJ the decision-making is really just a decision to follow the strategy or follow your gut; either way it’s just a guess, like guessing where the roulette ball will land.

3-Card poker, a very popular game, has one decision, play it or fold. Here again, most players set the line at Queen/Ten. The only decision is to follow your gut or stick with Queen/Ten, again, just a guess.

Gambles think Craps is such a complex game. It isn’t. You lay down your money and watch the dice, either you win or you don’t. The complicated payouts trick the gambler into thinking it is more sophisticated than roulette, but it isn’t. You watch the ball or you watch the dice, they are both lottery games.

I think anticipation is the key to a gambler’s curiosity, like waiting a week to see if your lottery numbers hit, but can’t wait too long or the casino loses money. I hope that the anticipation of a 3 or 4 dice roll race keeps players excited and playing. The emphasis is ‘HOPE’.

The game is resolved in about as much time as it takes to resolve one round of roulette.

Quote: VonVester

Thank you for your input gentlemen. I agree that this game will probably not appeal to serious horse gambles because there isn’t any research involved, however, the casual horse gambler picks horses based on their name or because they are the ‘favorite’ and this game might appeal to those players. However, I am hoping it appeals to all casino gamblers regardless of their game of choice.

When I first started dabbling in the prospect of designing a casino game I wanted a game that would require ‘decision-making’. But when I took a close look at the existing games I discovered that decision-making is just a façade. When playing Blackjack, the game credited for having the most opportunity to make decisions, it is really just a matter of playing the best probabilities. Follow the strategy card and you get your best payouts. So even in BJ the decision-making is really just a decision to follow the strategy or follow your gut; either way it’s just a guess, like guessing where the roulette ball will land.

3-Card poker, a very popular game, has one decision, play it or fold. Here again, most players set the line at Queen/Ten. The only decision is to follow your gut or stick with Queen/Ten, again, just a guess.

Gambles think Craps is such a complex game. It isn’t. You lay down your money and watch the dice, either you win or you don’t. The complicated payouts trick the gambler into thinking it is more sophisticated than roulette, but it isn’t. You watch the ball or you watch the dice, they are both lottery games.

I think anticipation is the key to a gambler’s curiosity, like waiting a week to see if your lottery numbers hit, but can’t wait too long or the casino loses money. I hope that the anticipation of a 3 or 4 dice roll race keeps players excited and playing. The emphasis is ‘HOPE’.

The game is resolved in about as much time as it takes to resolve one round of roulette.

I think this game will not attract hardly anyone. 99% of casino patrons have no idea what a trifecta or exacta is, let alone a box.
Place and show bets will appeal to even less people. And the longshot horse is only 9 to 1. What would attract a player to stop at this game, let alone play it. Moving disc on an imaginary race track and pretend they are horses ??? STRONGLY suggest you let this go and work on another idea .

Is this like that game I see at D&B's where you aim the balls down the numbered chutes and the player's rider figure advances that many spaces, or is this game a horse of a completely different color? (LOL), These casinos could probably make a killing of this game, if we "jockeyed" with it a little bit, but those places that didn't like the asking price would just have to "pony up". I might have used little figurines instead of pucks, but at this point we'd just be changing horses in midstream to alter it. (LOL)

Hope you enjoyed this.

And now, I'm watchiing Las Vegas rerun on TNT, and this particular scen is featuring the song "Pony" by Gin-u-Wine (no joke!)

Nah; this one doesn't have a skill factor even hinted at. In this game, you put fifty cents in and pick two of the horses and they run around and you either win or lose. (As I understand it; I've never actually played it but used to see it everywhere.) Supposed to be almost gone now, or else is totally gone.

There's still one of those at the MGM Grand, Vegas.

Thanks! It's funny; when they were everywhere I thought they were the most ridiculous thing I'd ever seen, now I want to try it out just because I might not have another chance. Imperial Palace used to have several of them, if I'm not mistaken, and I think every major casino in downtown probably had it at one point or another. There's another older automated game that looks like a Roulette wheel, but without the table, that always struck me as being kind of similar.

Quote: buzzpaff

I think this game will not attract hardly anyone. 99% of casino patrons have no idea what a trifecta or exacta is, let alone a box.
Place and show bets will appeal to even less people. And the longshot horse is only 9 to 1. What would attract a player to stop at this game, let alone play it. Moving disc on an imaginary race track and pretend they are horses ??? STRONGLY suggest you let this go and work on another idea .

Triple Towers® Greyhound Racing offers WIN, Place and show and has bigger pays outs (odds wise) But lower min bets then a table game.

I've seen (most recently in Den Haag) a series of terminals connected to a screen whereby you can bet on a logical horse race. Also fwiw the UK bookies have the same, but you use real betting slips as the "races" are treated like real ones except using horses/dogs etc. and a RNG with different odds for each runner. You also sometimes see horses going round an oval track in amusement arcades on the pier.
The only game I've seen with a "keep going" mechanism is Trente et Quarante where cards are dealt out until 31 is reached, and I've also heard of two-up where two coins are tossed until a result or odding out.