Paigowdan
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April 13th, 2011 at 6:08:55 PM permalink
Did this game ever get any installs....just wondering.
Some twists on Roulette, aside from using letters, it has different, more mid-range row, column, and multi-color group bet options.
I'd always see it at Raving table Games and G2E. See:

http://alphabeticroulette.com/

If this game were dropped into a casino, some players might play it: Pick your letters instead of numbers, or colors, more colors to choose.
Operators seem resistant, though.
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DJTeddyBear
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April 13th, 2011 at 7:57:37 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

...Operators seem resistant, though.

I'd be resistant too if I were an operator.

I get what the inventor had in mind, and applaud his attempt.

Using 6 colors instead of 2, as well as his other combination changes is very intriguing.

And using letters instead of numbers is a no-brainer, when you consider how many people bet dates on Roulette, Keno and Lottery.


If I was an operator though, I wouldn't even consider it unless it was changed to be numeric.

The simple reason is: The history display.

While Vegas may be sin city, you still wouldn't want the history to spell out curse words, or even bad phrases. Imagine being the operator at, say, Harrah's, and the history display shows:
H-A-R-R-A-H-S-S-U-C-K-S
You know people will sneak pictures of it.

How do you feel about Alphabet Roulette now?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
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April 13th, 2011 at 8:03:37 PM permalink
On a side note, although I have no interest in Alphabet Roulette, the patent for my Poker For Roulette will cover implementing it on an Alphabet Roulette table. It's just a matter of reworking the math and payouts.

Ditto for other non-standard Roulette wheels.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
P90
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April 13th, 2011 at 8:43:09 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

While Vegas may be sin city, you still wouldn't want the history to spell out curse words, or even bad phrases. Imagine being the operator at, say, Harrah's, and the history display shows:
H-A-R-R-A-H-S-S-U-C-K-S
You know people will sneak pictures of it.
How do you feel about Alphabet Roulette now?


Actually, this could be just the thing to let the game grab attention. Given a slightly lower house edge than double-zero, it's further an attractive proposition.

Let players place long shot bets on four-letter words instead of just a repetition jackpot (yes, I know you can just parlay, it's not the same) and I'd even spend some time and money there despite my reluctance to play -EV games.

What's more, word bets wouldn't pay out all at the same time, unlike the repetition bet, making the game less volatile for the operator.

Allow for word bets that stay on as long as you play, although I'm not sure if that would be legal, but if it is, that's a further hook to the game.
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Wizard
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April 13th, 2011 at 8:53:19 PM permalink
I don't think it went anywhere. I have a t-shirt for that game, by the way. Roulette is a very bad choice of game to base a variant on. Recently I met with a couple who was trying another roulette variant and I spent most of the time trying to talk them out of it.
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EvenBob
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April 13th, 2011 at 10:12:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Roulette is a very bad choice of game to base a variant on.



Its silly, a waste of time. Roulette has been perfect for over 200 years, why mess with it.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Paigowdan
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April 13th, 2011 at 10:58:09 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Its silly, a waste of time. Roulette has been perfect for over 200 years, why mess with it.



DISAGREE - Roulette is ripe for one thing, - and that is a REALLY GOOD multi-spin side bet - not a redefine of the base game.
This is the opinion of a number of casino execs. This was told to me by a big one.

The ONLY thing holding this advancement back is the technology expense, and the dealer/casino pit/surveillance expense involved.
This was told to me by a number of big casino execs.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
EvenBob
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April 13th, 2011 at 11:03:07 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

DISAGREE - Roulette is ripe for one thing, - and that is a REALLY GOOD multi-spin side bet -



Yeah, there's not enough places on the layout to bet. Gimee a break. Watch people play, they ignore 80% of the places to bet now. A lot of tables have the snake bet and thats ignored most of the time also.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Paigowdan
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April 13th, 2011 at 11:10:46 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Yeah, there's not enough places on the layout to bet. Gimee a break. Watch people play, they ignore 80% of the places to bet now. A lot of tables have the snake bet and thats ignored most of the time also.



Bob, any multi-spin bet wouldn't be on the layout, and the bet wouldn't be manually operated.
It would be a part of an electronic display at each player position, or with an electronic bet spot, or like G3-like player's sidebet keypad display at his position.
All handled by the display tracking computer. Player wins the bet - he gets credit onto his G3 keypad. Look at the electronic Roulette display board, it's computer run.

These electronic "hockey puck lights" or G3 keypads are in common table use. Every progressive bet on a table game uses them.
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MrCasinoGames
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April 13th, 2011 at 11:15:13 PM permalink
Roulette with: Alphabet / zodiac / Alphabet and zodiac, symbols.





Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
EvenBob
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April 13th, 2011 at 11:35:05 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan



These electronic "hockey puck lights" or G3 keypads are in common table use.



Where? I have no idea what you're talking about. All I ever see are regular roulette tables.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
MrCasinoGames
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April 13th, 2011 at 11:48:18 PM permalink
Quote: P90


What's more, word bets wouldn't pay out all at the same time, unlike the repetition bet, making the game less volatile for the operator.


I like your word bets idea.
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MrCasinoGames
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April 13th, 2011 at 11:52:40 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Its silly, a waste of time. Roulette has been perfect for over 200 years, why mess with it.


I don't agree with these.
What about poker and blackjack are these games not been perfect it yet? Why are we still making games based on them?

My Roulette variant: Roukette Link-Bets® (Play in UK 2011)
The introduction of the Roulette Link-Bets and Layout heralds the most important change in Roulette betting combinations. New betting combinations now available include Link-Splits, Link-Corners.

Note: The game now has four Splits bets and four Corners bets on any number in the outside columns (except 34 and 36)!

Video Presentation

Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
FleaStiff
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April 14th, 2011 at 12:35:39 AM permalink
Lotteries were usually "names" rather than numbers.
I see no reason why this alphabetic roulette should become popular however and would not wasted floor space with it.
EvenBob
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April 14th, 2011 at 12:44:08 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames



My Roulette variant: Roukette Link-Bets™



From a players point of view, if you exclude the 1-2-3-0-00 bet, all bets in roulette are the same, there are no 'better' bets, they're all equal. Adding more nonsense isn't doing the player any favors, the house edge is still the same.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
MrCasinoGames
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April 14th, 2011 at 2:14:58 AM permalink
EvenBob

Yes, the house edge is still the same.
The intervention of Roukette Link-Bets™ is just to give the player more betting options, not try to change the house edge.
And yes we are not doing the player any favors, but are all casino games inventors here to invent games to favours the players?
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Paigowdan
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April 14th, 2011 at 2:39:04 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

EvenBob

Yes, the house edge is still the same.
The intervention of Roukette Link-Bets™ is just to give the player more betting options, not try to change the house edge.
And yes we are not doing the player any favors, but are all casino games inventors here to invent games to favours the players?



Stephen is right.
Casino game designers WORK for the house - and we get paid by the house - but we also try very hard to consider gamblers' needs. What gamers want is a game that gives an even edge, or a gamblers edge. Simply will not happen.

If a group of tough gamblers tried to open up a casino tomorrow, they would very quickly see the way of the casino operator in this problem - when THEY are banking things against rough gamblers.

Again, it is a cat-and-mouse situation.
When things are fairly equal - with a little edge to the cat - they're both running around, and everyone is happy with the action taking place.
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EvenBob
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April 14th, 2011 at 2:42:44 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames


And yes we are not doing the player any favors, but are all casino games inventors here to invent games to favours the players?



I look at everything from the players standpoint and not screwing him any further than they already are. Silly me..

One of my favorite quotes from the TV show 'Deadwood', is where one gambling hall owner is discussing with another gambling hall owner about how to get the chumps to bet more. Al Swearengen says "We could knock them over the head and throw their bodies in the river, but that would be illegal." This is still the attitude of todays casino owners, and its still illegal.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Paigowdan
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April 14th, 2011 at 3:25:58 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I look at everything from the players standpoint and not screwing him any further than they already are. Silly me..

One of my favorite quotes from the TV show 'Deadwood', is where one gambling hall owner is discussing with another gambling hall owner about how to get the chumps to bet more. Al Swearengen says "We could knock them over the head and throw their bodies in the river, but that would be illegal." This is still the attitude of todays casino owners, and its still illegal.



No, this isn't the attitude of casino operators, it really isn't, and if it were, the cleaner and better casino would always get the good business from its good practices.

I'm a casino dealer, and I see players time and time again announce the casino operator is the dog, as the player attempts a theft or cheating manouever, while announcing that the casino is a thief. I see it there in the casino pit, and I sometimes see this attitude here, on a gamblers' forum.

Casino players routinely take shots at the casino and its dealers, while pointing to Deadwood episodes.
I see it in my casino job, and I see it here.

A dozen times a workday I'd like to tell some gamblers, "get a job as a casino dealer, and take a 'shot' at yourself, and see what this attitude is like."

Bob, if you were knocked over the head and thrown into the river by a casino dealer, you wouldn't still be going to casinos.

Casino dealers get knock in the head and thrown into the river every day by 'shot-taking' casino players, especially at a crap game, and that's the real story.
We also get told to swallow this behavior in the sake of being professional. We do, and we pay our bills.
What I'd like to see as a professional casino dealer is a professional casino player; actually, I frequently do, and they stand out. But it's a mixed bag.

Edit: actually, anyone would be a complete idiot to consider the casinos to be complete thieves who are against them - and then give them their patronage.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
EvenBob
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April 14th, 2011 at 3:52:13 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

No, this isn't the attitude of casino operators, it really isn't



So, in your opinion, the casino bends over backwards to give the player a 'good deal'? The days of Benny Binion, who said: "Until a players last check to us bounces, our job isn't done", those days are no longer here? When a player loses his car and his house gambling, the casino cries itself to sleep every night? Thats the story you're going with? The casino is just the modern extension of the old time traveling carnival, where customers were called 'marks', and every game was fixed. Now every game is legally fixed, so its OK. People can go and get fleeced without fear of being knocked on the head and thrown in the river. Don't kid a kidder, I've been going to casinos since 1975.

>Edit: actually, anyone would be a complete idiot to consider the casinos to be complete thieves who are against them - and then give them their patronage.>

Of course they're thieves, but legal thieves. They cheat you with the house edge. And if you try and get around the HE by using your head, like in BJ, not too long ago you were taken into a back room and beaten half to death. Thats the casino you're trying to tell us has completely 'changed'. Sure they have. As far as giving them patronage, you're correct.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Paigowdan
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April 14th, 2011 at 4:14:38 AM permalink
1. Yes - those days are over. Completely over.
2. Don't kid a kidder??!!

If you don't agree with this - and truly believe that casino operators are complete dirtbag thieves - then why would you would be announcing that you are patronizing these disreputable insitutions - in your own opinion.

Only a fool would announce that he patronizes a den of thieves. Think about that a moment.
And if you're not a gambler, then what are you saying here?

Personally, I think Gaming is a great and very legitimate industry.

I have some complaints about the industry, true...but hey, I'm in it as my career and livelyhood. No regrets.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
EvenBob
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April 14th, 2011 at 4:30:56 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

re over. Completely over.
2. Don't kid a kidder??!!

If you don't agree with this - and truly believe that casino operators are complete dirtbag thieves - then why would you would be announcing that you are patronizing these disreputable insitutions .



Take a wild guess...

>>I have some complaints about the industry, true..>>

I'm sure you have a volume of them. I've never met a dealer that didn't hate the guts of the casino they worked for. Like Steve Wynn says, let them quit, I have a 3 foot stack of applications on my desk to replace them.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
DJTeddyBear
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April 14th, 2011 at 4:47:36 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Roulette with: Alphabet / zodiac / Alphabet and zodiac, symbols....


Zodiac? 12 symbols plus one green zero? That give a house edge equal to playing a TRIPLE zero 1-36 game!

At least the Alphabet plus Zodiac would offer the same odds as a regular double zero game. I can see that for the operator that wants to try something only a little different.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MrCasinoGames
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April 14th, 2011 at 4:55:36 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I can see that for the operator that wants to try something only a little different.


Do you mean: I can't see
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DJTeddyBear
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April 14th, 2011 at 4:57:34 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Paigowdan

These electronic "hockey puck lights" or G3 keypads are in common table use.

Where? I have no idea what you're talking about. All I ever see are regular roulette tables.

G3 is only recently starting to appear on tables.

However, the "Hockey Puck Lights" is what you see on Let It Ride. A similar system, the "Drop Slot" is used on Carribean Stud. I envisioned using one of them on my Poker For Roulette game.
Last edited by: DJTeddyBear on Mar 21, 2021
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
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April 14th, 2011 at 5:03:49 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I can see that for the operator that wants to try something only a little different.

Do you mean: I can't see

Nope.

I meant that I can see an operator wanting to try something different, giving the Alphabet Plus Zodiac thing a try.

It's got the alphabet thing going for it the same way Alphabet Roulette does. But it has zodiac symbols that greatly reduces the chance of an undesireable word on the history display. Plus it has all of the same odds as standard Double Zero roulette.

I'm not saying that it's a good idea, just that it would not surprise me to see someone give it a shot.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DJTeddyBear
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April 14th, 2011 at 5:08:21 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I'm sure you have a volume of them. I've never met a dealer that didn't hate the guts of the casino they worked for. Like Steve Wynn says, let them quit, I have a 3 foot stack of applications on my desk to replace them.

You can say that about any business in any industry.

For obvious reasons, it just tends to be more prevalent and open in the gaming industry.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MrCasinoGames
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April 14th, 2011 at 5:19:51 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear


I'm not saying that it's a good idea, just that it would not surprise me to see someone give it a shot.



Yes, Not surprise me to see someone give it a shot too.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
EvenBob
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April 14th, 2011 at 5:21:17 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

You can say that about any business in any industry.

.



For sure. I knew a lot of guys in the 80's who worked for GM, and to a man, they hated their jobs. They only stayed for 30 and out, retire at 50 and get most of you're wages in retirement. No wonder GM needed to be bailed out.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
buzzpaff
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April 14th, 2011 at 9:48:07 AM permalink
" Of course they're thieves, but legal thieves. They cheat you with the house edge. "

So the casino owners should invest all the money, provide an inviting place to gamble, pay all the employees, pay taxes,
utilities, etc. And then be punished for offering BJ at a house edge of 00.43%. Wouldn't it be better for them to send you a check every week instead and close the casino ???
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April 14th, 2011 at 9:51:09 AM permalink
You could have all sorts of side bets according to what words can be spelled. "Antidisestablishmentarianism" could pay a million to one :P
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slyther
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April 14th, 2011 at 11:53:03 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Imagine being the operator at, say, Harrah's, and the history display shows:
H-A-R-R-A-H-S-S-U-C-K-S



This would be awesome.
Paigowdan
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April 14th, 2011 at 3:03:09 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Take a wild guess...

>>I have some complaints about the industry, true..>>

I'm sure you have a volume of them. I've never met a dealer that didn't hate the guts of the casino they worked for. Like Steve Wynn says, let them quit, I have a 3 foot stack of applications on my desk to replace them.



I've met a lot of dealers who are fine with their employer. Most are thankful for the job and opportunity. Station Casinos has been very fair to me and other employees, although, - and in spite of - the personality conflicts and pressure situations that can always arise in the table games pit. That's what the dealers and floormen take home. While Gaming can be a very rude industry, there are many pockets of decency.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Paigowdan
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April 14th, 2011 at 3:07:03 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddybear

Imagine being the operator at, say, Harrah's, and the history display shows:
H-A-R-R-A-H-S-S-U-C-K-S



Part of the juice of Alphabetic Roulette would be the juicy words produced.
The casino would have to let them stand on the display board, as they are valid game results they'd have to take-and-pay on.
If this element brings them in, so much the better.
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DorothyGale
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April 14th, 2011 at 3:52:58 PM permalink
I would enjoy watching the complete works of William Shakespeare come out one letter at a time ... damn the monkeys at the typewriters!

Aren't a couple of letters missing? How is that handled?

Then there would be these delights ... waiting for that next letter to hit ...

C-U-N- ...

N-I-G-G-E- ...

F-A-G-G-O- ...

--Ms. D.
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Paigowdan
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April 14th, 2011 at 4:04:23 PM permalink
Yes...exactly. People would have to kiss their political correctness goodbye.
And the house and players would have to let it stand, as these would be valid spin results in Alphabetic Roulette.
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Nareed
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April 14th, 2011 at 4:07:12 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Yes...exactly. People would have to kiss their political correctness goodbye.



Or kiss the tracking of results goodbye... Yes, I know that won't happen.

Quote:

And the house and players would have to let it stand, as these would be valid spin results in Alphabetic Roulette.



Maybe that's why soe letters are missing? In any case, the human propensity to fill in the blanks would make up for any missing letters. and there are other languages. Maybe one day the roulette stats say YYZXSD and that's funny in Antarctican :P
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Doc
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April 14th, 2011 at 8:40:46 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

... Maybe one day the roulette stats say YYZXSD and that's funny in Antarctican :P


Wait a sec ... speaking of funny, isn't that the funny name of that road and town off I-15 down near Baker, CA? Something bizarre like that anyway. :P
Nareed
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April 14th, 2011 at 8:44:05 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Wait a sec ... speaking of funny, isn't that the funny name of that road and town off I-15 down near Baker, CA? Something bizarre like that anyway. :P



I don't know about that.

But back in the 90s when the wars in the former Yugoslavia raged, I recall an article describing a plan to bomb enemy areas with vowels in order to screw up the local language...
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Wizard
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April 15th, 2011 at 2:48:18 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

But back in the 90s when the wars in the former Yugoslavia raged, I recall an article describing a plan to bomb enemy areas with vowels in order to screw up the local language...



That was an Onion article. The purpose was to help the language, because it was too hard to pronounce anything with so hardly any vowels.
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Nareed
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April 15th, 2011 at 6:49:37 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

That was an Onion article. The purpose was to help the language, because it was too hard to pronounce anything with so hardly any vowels.



I admit I didn't recall the exact theme, but I like my version better :P

I vaguely recall there was some mention about shipping consonants to Ethiopia as well...
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AlanRRT
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July 18th, 2011 at 12:41:22 PM permalink
Well, it happened. Fitzgeralds recently installed an Alphabetic Roulette game. There are 25 spots, Y and Z are combined in one spot. Straight up pays 23 to 1, so my math challenged calculations give this a 4% house edge. Not the greatest game, but not the worst either, and better than standard double 0 roulette. I'll be staying at Fitzgeralds next month and will post my observations if someone doesn't beat me to it.
Wizard
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Wizard
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July 18th, 2011 at 1:10:22 PM permalink
Quote: AlanRRT

Well, it happened. Fitzgeralds recently installed an Alphabetic Roulette game...



Really?! I'll be sure to wear by Alphabetic Roulette t-shirt when I try it out, which they gave me at the gaming show. Just to be clear, we're talking the Fitz in Vegas right? I think there is another in Tunica, not to mention the one that went out of business in Reno.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
avargov
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July 18th, 2011 at 1:44:30 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Wait a sec ... speaking of funny, isn't that the funny name of that road and town off I-15 down near Baker, CA? Something bizarre like that anyway. :P



Zzyzx rd. I think the town is spelled Zuzeck. I go by there a couple of times a week. Will check to be sure.
Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." ~ William Gibson
AlanRRT
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July 18th, 2011 at 4:18:17 PM permalink
Yes, I should have made that clear, it's Fitzgeralds in Las Vegas. They announced the new game on their facebook page.
AlanRRT
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July 18th, 2011 at 4:42:26 PM permalink
The "town" is also called Zzyzyx. Curtis Howe Springer opened a health spa there in 1944, which was closed down by the government in 1974 because Springer was using government land that he didn't own. Springer claimed to be a medical doctor and a Methodist minister, but he was neither. The buildings are still there, and used by USC for a desert studies center.
gofaster87
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July 18th, 2011 at 4:49:03 PM permalink
.....
Wizard
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August 7th, 2011 at 8:41:09 PM permalink
I played four new games downtown this afternoon: Zero, Rupert's Island, Burn Blackjack, and of course Alphabetic Roulette. This was one of the easiest games I have ever analyzed so cranked it out as soon as I got home. With that introduction, please check out my new page on Alphabetic Roulette.

As my loyal guinea pigs, please let me know if you have any corrections, suggestions, questions, ... you know the drill. Thanks.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
EvenBob
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August 7th, 2011 at 8:49:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I played four new games downtown this afternoon: Zero, Rupert's Island, Burn Blackjack, and of course Alphabetic Roulette.



It won't be there 3 months. People have no connection to letters, not the way
they do to numbers. Personally, as someone who plays roulette exclusively, I find the
game trite and somewhat insulting.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Nareed
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August 7th, 2011 at 8:55:03 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

As my loyal guinea pigs, please let me know if you have any corrections, suggestions, questions, ... you know the drill. Thanks.



I would suggest to call the letters letters rather than numbers.

And did you wear your Alphabetic Roulette T-shirt?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
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