Stripped/Joker Decks

Hi forum :) Quick question

How do casinos obtain stripped decks for Spanish 21? Do they manually remove the tens or buy the decks with the tens removed? Do some casinos buy four kinds (48-card, 52-card, 53-card, and 54-card decks) to cover all games from Spanish 21 to UTH to Pai Gow Poker to Double Draw Poker?

Also, how much does a deck of cards cost a casino?

I actually have seen both kinds of decks.

Quote: harris

Also, how much does a deck of cards cost a casino?
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No specifics, but best useful guess:

I personally pay around $3 for a pack of Bees.
While casinos do get custom printing, they probably also get volume discounts. My very best guess is that a casino is paying between $3 and $5 a pack.


From the new deck procedures I've observed, the floor supervisor brings new packs to the table, removed the cellophane overwrap, opens the tuck boxes, removes the cards from the tuck, fans through, removes ranks, jokers, and premium cards as appropriate for the game on offer, places the extra cards back in the tuck, and places the cards in the discard tray. This is repeated for each new deck brought in. The tucks are placed in a clear plastic bag, marked with the table number, time, and date, and secured either under the table, or at the supervisor's desk.

Quote: Dieter

I personally pay around $3 for a pack of Bees.

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Correction!

I used to pay around $3 for a pack of Bees.
It looks like the price is now just over $4 a pack.

Cue incoherent old-timer grousing about the economy and how what this country needs is a five cent nickel.

I do hope if you're buying playing cards, you're buying by the brick (12 pack), not the deck. If you haven't looked into it, bricks are often ridiculously affordable.

Quote: harris

Hi forum :) Quick question

How do casinos obtain stripped decks for Spanish 21? Do they manually remove the tens or buy the decks with the tens removed? Do some casinos buy four kinds (48-card, 52-card, 53-card, and 54-card decks) to cover all games from Spanish 21 to UTH to Pai Gow Poker to Double Draw Poker?

Also, how much does a deck of cards cost a casino?
link to original post

I also have seen it both ways. I have also seen where the casino forgot to take the tens out of the deck. When they discovered the error all the players who were losing had their money returned. The dealer and the floor supervisor were given a written warning.

Today at G2E, I was told they print special decks where the ten cards are the color blue for Spanish 21, so it’s obvious to dealers to remove them and easy for surveillance to see

Quote: Dieter

Quote: harris

Also, how much does a deck of cards cost a casino?
link to original post

No specifics, but best useful guess:

My very best guess is that a casino is paying between $3 and $5 a pack.

link to original post

I don’t like your guesses! Mine is less than $1 per deck when you are buying tens of thousands of decks per year.

AI seems to agree with me.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Dieter

Quote: harris

Also, how much does a deck of cards cost a casino?
link to original post

No specifics, but best useful guess:

My very best guess is that a casino is paying between $3 and $5 a pack.

link to original post

I don’t like your guesses! Mine is less than $1 per deck when you are buying tens of thousands of decks per year.

AI seems to agree with me.
link to original post

This doesn't match the volume pricing information I've seen, although I'm probably a decade out of date. I do see $1 decks from unapproved overseas manufacturers.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Dieter

Quote: harris

Also, how much does a deck of cards cost a casino?
link to original post

No specifics, but best useful guess:

My very best guess is that a casino is paying between $3 and $5 a pack.

link to original post

I don’t like your guesses! Mine is less than $1 per deck when you are buying tens of thousands of decks per year.

AI seems to agree with me.
link to original post

I would tend to think the price would be much closer to $1 than ($3 to $5). That probably would not include the shipping. I don't know if it is still the same, but many years ago the majority of the cards were printed in Mexico for Las Vegas.

Quote: Dieter

This doesn't match the volume pricing information I've seen, although I'm probably a decade out of date. I do see $1 decks from unapproved overseas manufacturers.
link to original post

Working from fallible memory:

In some jurisdictions, casinos can only buy certain supplies (including chips/cheques, cards, and dice) from manufacturers and vendors on the approved list.
USPCC was (and is) on the approved list.

About 10 years ago, USPCC was promoting a short run custom service. This covered orders from around 20 decks up to 10000 decks. Pricing scaled about as you'd expect, where buying less than a 500 deck run didn't seem to save any money, to a bit under $3/deck for 10k. More than 10k was call for quote (talk to the commercial custom division). Artwork additional, freight additional, and plan for under/overrun. (This may have been pre-Cartamundi. I think it was before GPI cards had the big problems.)

They were allowing full custom, front and back, 56 faces (maybe it was only 54, but I doubt it), Bee or Bicycle stock, and your choice of cut (bevel) direction. All of this is quite similar to what a casino would specify for custom (logo) back and a specified face/index design (Jumbo vs Enhanced, tech art vs no-peek, etc).

USPCC seems to now be holding strictly to a 2500 deck MOQ.

I fairly reasonably believed $3 was around the floor, because that was what I was paying for standard design bricks, with no significant discount for going to a master carton.

I am pretty sure I see cancelled casino decks for $1/deck (now), and I am pretty sure everyone believes they aren't more valuable than uncancelled decks. That is comparable in retail price to no-name awful quality decks.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: Dieter

This doesn't match the volume pricing information I've seen, although I'm probably a decade out of date. I do see $1 decks from unapproved overseas manufacturers.
link to original post

Working from fallible memory:

In some jurisdictions, casinos can only buy certain supplies (including chips/cheques, cards, and dice) from manufacturers and vendors on the approved list.
USPCC was (and is) on the approved list.

About 10 years ago, USPCC was promoting a short run custom service. This covered orders from around 20 decks up to 10000 decks. Pricing scaled about as you'd expect, where buying less than a 500 deck run didn't seem to save any money, to a bit under $3/deck for 10k. More than 10k was call for quote (talk to the commercial custom division). Artwork additional, freight additional, and plan for under/overrun. (This may have been pre-Cartamundi. I think it was before GPI cards had the big problems.)

They were allowing full custom, front and back, 56 faces (maybe it was only 54, but I doubt it), Bee or Bicycle stock, and your choice of cut (bevel) direction. All of this is quite similar to what a casino would specify for custom (logo) back and a specified face/index design (Jumbo vs Enhanced, tech art vs no-peek, etc).

USPCC seems to now be holding strictly to a 2500 deck MOQ.

I fairly reasonably believed $3 was around the floor, because that was what I was paying for standard design bricks, with no significant discount for going to a master carton.

I am pretty sure I see cancelled casino decks for $1/deck (now), and I am pretty sure everyone believes they aren't more valuable than uncancelled decks. That is comparable in retail price to no-name awful quality decks.
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AI says 0.65 to 1.25 per deck for paper decks.
20 years ago I know one casino that was paying 29c per deck

Quote: Hunterhill

AI says 0.65 to 1.25 per deck for paper decks.
20 years ago I know one casino that was paying 29c per deck
link to original post

I guess I have to reluctantly accept that.

It doesn't make sense to me why decks wouldn't be switched out far more often if they're that inexpensive, however.

Quote: Hunterhill

Quote: harris

Hi forum :) Quick question

How do casinos obtain stripped decks for Spanish 21? Do they manually remove the tens or buy the decks with the tens removed? Do some casinos buy four kinds (48-card, 52-card, 53-card, and 54-card decks) to cover all games from Spanish 21 to UTH to Pai Gow Poker to Double Draw Poker?

Also, how much does a deck of cards cost a casino?
link to original post

I also have seen it both ways. I have also seen where the casino forgot to take the tens out of the deck. When they discovered the error all the players who were losing had their money returned. The dealer and the floor supervisor were given a written warning.
link to original post

Yes I have seen that a few times too, pip-10s left in the shoe for blackjack derivative games that do not use them.

I am not one to embarrass a worker by drawing attention to their errors so I said nothing, but diligent as I am, I did not leave the table until I saw that the error was corrected.

Quote: AutomaticMonkey

I am not one to embarrass a worker by drawing attention to their errors so I said nothing, but diligent as I am, I did not leave the table until I saw that the error was corrected.
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Good looking out. So heartwarming to hear about someone trying to protect an entertainment player from a circumstance like this.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: Hunterhill

AI says 0.65 to 1.25 per deck for paper decks.
20 years ago I know one casino that was paying 29c per deck
link to original post

I guess I have to reluctantly accept that.

It doesn't make sense to me why decks wouldn't be switched out far more often if they're that inexpensive, however.
link to original post

I just got some email matching the roughly $1/deck pricing (in mass quantity). Yikes. I had no idea it was so cheap.

Today I found out!

Fortunes may change hands! over that one dollar deck of cards.

Quote: MDawg

Fortunes may change hands! over that one dollar deck of cards.
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Well, if I ever see a gift shop charging $2 for a cancelled deck, my internal monologue will be dictating a sternly worded letter...

Quote: Dieter

It doesn't make sense to me why decks wouldn't be switched out far more often if they're that inexpensive, however.
link to original post

Bcause they use a LOT of them!

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: Dieter

It doesn't make sense to me why decks wouldn't be switched out far more often if they're that inexpensive, however.
link to original post

Bcause they use a LOT of them!
link to original post

When the tiny casino in Searchlight was family-owned, they'd use the same four decks on their BJ table for weeks. If a particular card got too nasty or an edge got broke, they would replace the original card. It got to the point where the backs of about a third of the cards were substantially lighter than the older cards in the deck. They must have saved dozens of dollars a month.

Quote: billryan

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: Dieter

It doesn't make sense to me why decks wouldn't be switched out far more often if they're that inexpensive, however.
link to original post

Bcause they use a LOT of them!
link to original post

When the tiny casino in Searchlight was family-owned, they'd use the same four decks on their BJ table for weeks. If a particular card got too nasty or an edge got broke, they would replace the original card. It got to the point where the backs of about a third of the cards were substantially lighter than the older cards in the deck. They must have saved dozens of dollars a month.
link to original post

Exactly. I figure a deck can last about an hour in casino play while staying "fresh". Maybe you can milk that to three or four hours, but why?

Raise the minimum, deal faster, or add a sidebet. The extra expense of fresh cards should be covered.

I was annoyed when my daughters spilled their drinks on the cards. Mostly because it meant I had to clean the layout, although I *did* like the particular cards I had in the shoe at the time. Two or three decks wrecked (why were so many 5♣'s on the board???), but I learned to get a better price on cards and move on. No point crying over spilled root beer, nor the fact that life happens when 4 year olds are in play.

In reality, I got a dozen hours out of the deck, and should just ditch it - losing snap and starting to pick up grime, anyway.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: billryan

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: Dieter

It doesn't make sense to me why decks wouldn't be switched out far more often if they're that inexpensive, however.
link to original post

Bcause they use a LOT of them!
link to original post

When the tiny casino in Searchlight was family-owned, they'd use the same four decks on their BJ table for weeks. If a particular card got too nasty or an edge got broke, they would replace the original card. It got to the point where the backs of about a third of the cards were substantially lighter than the older cards in the deck. They must have saved dozens of dollars a month.
link to original post

Exactly. I figure a deck can last about an hour in casino play while staying "fresh". Maybe you can milk that to three or four hours, but why?

Raise the minimum, deal faster, or add a sidebet. The extra expense of fresh cards should be covered.

I was annoyed when my daughters spilled their drinks on the cards. Mostly because it meant I had to clean the layout, although I *did* like the particular cards I had in the shoe at the time. Two or three decks wrecked (why were so many 5♣'s on the board???), but I learned to get a better price on cards and move on. No point crying over spilled root beer, nor the fact that life happens when 4 year olds are in play.

In reality, I got a dozen hours out of the deck, and should just ditch it - losing snap and starting to pick up grime, anyway.
link to original post

It depends on the game too. In shoe blackjack the cards can last all day because the dealer is expected to keep their hands clean and handle the cards properly. In games where the players handle the cards and especially pitch BJ where you scratch for a hit the cards get messed up very quickly and I've seen people eat chicken with their hands while playing, as well as some unmentionable and unhygienic behavior. So those cards are getting changed all the time, possibility of intentional marking, with daub or bending, or just rough handling with dirty hands. It's unclear what the law is about playing to a mark that nobody put there intentionally but you noticed.

I expect a 6 deck shoe to stay fresh for 6 hours of play, but that's easily stretched to 8 hours.
I expect two 6 deck shoes in A/B (red/blue) rotation to stay fresh for 12 hours. Batch shufflers aren't as gentle as we tend to want.