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NewToCraps
NewToCraps
Joined: Jun 16, 2013
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 208
July 13th, 2017 at 2:59:54 PM permalink
While playing Craps I've often seen the shooter make the point, and when the next point is established, it is the same number. The dealer puts the puck on that number again, and says "Back on the _____".

So, four years ago, I started the process of getting a patent on some Craps side bet ideas, one based on the "Back on the ____" situation, and ... I finally got a patent on my ideas !!

If you have tried to get a patent on a table game idea lately, you can understand my excitement on being able to get a patent issued on my idea, and although I wouldn't recommend doing it pro se,
I wrote the application, submitted it, and responded to a rejection - all on my own.

So, here it is ...

BACK ON BET sm
A CRAPS SIDE BET

A Back On Betsm wins
when a new point is established
on the same number as the previous point.


(you are betting that the point number will be repeated)
A.K.A. "Point Number Deja Vu"


It's name is based on a dealer putting the puck “BACK ON” the same point number
and it's nickname is a "BOB" bet.


THE BET INCLUDES TWO DIFFERENT WAYS TO WIN
Your wager is actually two wagers in one, a portion of it applies towards a "Point BOB" and a portion of it applies towards a "Seven BOB".
  • The 1st way is (Point portion of BOB wins) ... after a point is made
    (the bet loses a portion of the initial wager - the Seven portion of BOB, but a portion remains),
    it wins when the next point established is the same number as the previous point.
  • The 2nd way is (Seven portion of BOB wins) ... after a seven-out
    (the bet loses a portion of the initial wager - the Point portion of BOB, but a potion remains),
    it wins when the first point established by a new shooter is the same number as the previous point.
    • Because a portion of the initial wager remains,
      a Back On Betsm remains active after a seven out ! (unlike any other bet)
HOW THE BET WORKS
  • After the point is established,
    you can make a Back On Betsm wager on the current point number.
  • When the current point is made OR if there is a seven-out rolled,
    a portion of your initial wager on the bet remains active until the next point number is established.
    (Your original wager chip(s) remain, they are just temporarily "devalued").
  • If the next established point number is the same as the previous point number,
    your Back On Betsm WINS !!
    (The payout is based on the original wager amount).
  • If the next established point number is different than the previous point number,
    your bet loses.
RULES
  • A Back On Betsm can only be initiated after the point is established,
    but must be before the point is made or before a seven-out.
  • An existing bet can be increased only
    before the point is made or before a seven-out is rolled.
  • It can only be made on the current point number.
  • Once established it:
    cannot be taken down,
    cannot turned off and
    cannot be reduced.
  • Wager increments are five dollars.

If the Point has been established as a 4, and a Back On Betsm is made:

  • With a roll of 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12 - the bet remains unresolved.
  • With a roll of 4, the point is made - the bet remains unresolved.
    (only a portion of the initial wager amount is considered active)
  • The same shooter continues to roll, and at this point
    • With a roll of 2, 3, 7, 11 or 12 - the bet remains unresolved.
    • With a roll of 4, the same point is reestablished - the bet is resolved as a WIN.
    • With a roll of 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10, a new point is established - the bet is resolved as a loss.
  • With a roll of 7, the shooter sevens-out - the bet remains unresolved.
    (only a potion of the initial wager amount is considered active)
  • A new shooter start their turn to roll, and at this point
    • With a roll of 2, 3, 7, 11 or 12 - the bet remains unresolved.
    • With a roll of 4, the same point is reestablished - the bet is resolved as a WIN.
    • With a roll of 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10, a new point is established - the bet is resolved as a loss.
Overall Payout Ratios and House Edge
. Wager Payout . . Payout Ratio . . House Edge .
Point 4 or 10
$38 for $5
7.6 for 1
5.00 %
Point 5 or 9
$29 for $5
5.8 for 1
3.33 %
Point 6 or 8
$23 for $5
4.6 for 1
4.16 %


Point BOB portion of the original wager
Payout Ratios, House Edge and Standard Deviation
. Portion of Wager . . Wager Payout . . Payout Ratio . . House Edge . . Standard Deviation .
Point 4 or 10
$1.67 - 33.3 %
$38.00 for $1.67
22.8 for 1
5.00 %
4.56
Point 5 or 9
$2.00 - 40.0 %
$29.00 for $2.00
14.5 for 1
3.33 %
3.62
Point 6 or 8
$2.27 - 45.5 %
$23.00 for $2.27
10.1 for 1
4.16 %
2.96


Seven BOB portion of the original wager
Payout Ratios, House Edge and Standard Deviation
. Portion of Wager . . Wager Payout . . Payout Ratio . . House Edge . . Standard Deviation .
Point 4 or 10
$3.33 - 66.7 %
$38.00 for $3.33
11.4 for 1
5.00 %
3.15
Point 5 or 9
$3.00 - 60.0 %
$29.00 for $3.00
9.7 for 1
3.33 %
2.90
Point 6 or 8
$2.73 - 54.5 %
$23.00 for $2.73
8.4 for 1
4.16 %
2.68
  • The HE is similar to Place bets (5.00, 3.33, 4.16),
    but with much larger payouts (7.6 for 1, 5.8 for 1, 4.6 for 1).
  • It has a lot lower HE than other side bets (like - the Fire Bet and the Small, Tall or All bets).
Last edited by: NewToCraps on Jul 13, 2017
Learned Craps in 2013 .... Developed Craps "Back On Bet" side bet ... Working on Craps game variations - Second Chance Craps and Sub-Crap-tion ... A completely new dice game idea is next - D Dice D
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 3257
July 13th, 2017 at 3:07:21 PM permalink
Congratulations, please post the patent # or a link to it please.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
  • Threads: 24
  • Posts: 1321
Thanks for this post from:
NewToCraps
July 13th, 2017 at 3:30:12 PM permalink
I'm slightly confused as the figures you give corresponds with making the point and then [eventually] re-establishing it again. A 7-out should lose you the bet.

I can see why, during the come-out, you wouldn't allow an increase in bet as you've already got through Phase 1.
Point456
Pr(made)3/94/105/11
Pr(re-point)Point3/244/245/24
True odds1/241/1525/264
Fair Payout (x to 1)23149.56
Fair (X FOR 1)241510.56
sixsisters
sixsisters
Joined: Jul 11, 2017
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 86
July 13th, 2017 at 3:37:52 PM permalink
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NewToCraps
NewToCraps
Joined: Jun 16, 2013
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 208
July 13th, 2017 at 3:59:20 PM permalink
A link to the patent.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=9636571&OS=9636571&RS=9636571
Learned Craps in 2013 .... Developed Craps "Back On Bet" side bet ... Working on Craps game variations - Second Chance Craps and Sub-Crap-tion ... A completely new dice game idea is next - D Dice D
NewToCraps
NewToCraps
Joined: Jun 16, 2013
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 208
July 13th, 2017 at 4:02:24 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

I'm slightly confused as the figures you give corresponds with making the point and then [eventually] re-establishing it again. A 7-out should lose you the bet.

I can see why, during the come-out, you wouldn't allow an increase in bet as you've already got through Phase 1.

Point456
Pr(made)3/94/105/11
Pr(re-point)Point3/244/245/24
True odds1/241/1525/264
Fair Payout (x to 1)23149.56
Fair (X FOR 1)241510.56



I added some clarification, thank you for noting the confusion. I am redoing the payout info as well to better explain both ways the bet pays out. Thanks for the response right away so I can regroup before too many folks are confused.
Learned Craps in 2013 .... Developed Craps "Back On Bet" side bet ... Working on Craps game variations - Second Chance Craps and Sub-Crap-tion ... A completely new dice game idea is next - D Dice D
ahiromu
ahiromu
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
  • Threads: 110
  • Posts: 1922
July 13th, 2017 at 7:02:29 PM permalink
If there is a seven out, then another seven before establishing a point, does the "seven" portion stay up? Wording makes me think "Yes" - but just want to double check.

I would play this when I'm shooting for five bucks. A little disingenuous to say that the bet stays up on a seven out. Not necessarily lying, but a little deceiving (is that why it's highlighted out?).
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
NewToCraps
NewToCraps
Joined: Jun 16, 2013
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 208
July 13th, 2017 at 7:56:51 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

If there is a seven out, then another seven before establishing a point, does the "seven" portion stay up? Wording makes me think "Yes" - but just want to double check.

Yes, you are correct (I'll add a footnote about that - thanks)

Quote: ahiromu

I would play this when I'm shooting for five bucks. A little disingenuous to say that the bet stays up on a seven out. Not necessarily lying, but a little deceiving (is that why it's highlighted out?).

Actually, The bet does stay active, just that the wager amount of the active bet is reduced. I highlighted it to bring attention to it, cause not many bets can be made, be active, and yet after a seven-out, continue to be active and then pay on the bet's winning situation during the next players roll.
Learned Craps in 2013 .... Developed Craps "Back On Bet" side bet ... Working on Craps game variations - Second Chance Craps and Sub-Crap-tion ... A completely new dice game idea is next - D Dice D
mustangsally
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 1997
July 13th, 2017 at 9:04:41 PM permalink
wow!
I read it 3 times and maybe got it.

what if you R the only shooter and you 7 out
and U R done.
what happens to the 1/2 bet that stays?

hmm,
I still don't get it
you have a video of the bet in action?

Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
NewToCraps
NewToCraps
Joined: Jun 16, 2013
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 208
July 13th, 2017 at 10:39:03 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

wow!
I read it 3 times and maybe got it.

I'm trying to figure out how to explain it with fewer words ... I hid the section that might cause confusion and labeled it "come back ..."

Quote: mustangsally

what if you R the only shooter and you 7 out
and U R done.
what happens to the 1/2 bet that stays?

Impressive - you thought of a unique situation ...
I guess you have to stay and roll until you make one more point to resolve the bet, and then DON"T make a BOB bet.
(ps, the portions are not exactly 1/2)

Quote: mustangsally

hmm,
I still don't get it
you have a video of the bet in action?

I added an example spoiler to help explain it better (??), I hope.
Last edited by: NewToCraps on Jul 13, 2017
Learned Craps in 2013 .... Developed Craps "Back On Bet" side bet ... Working on Craps game variations - Second Chance Craps and Sub-Crap-tion ... A completely new dice game idea is next - D Dice D

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