discflicker
discflicker
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August 20th, 2015 at 12:04:23 AM permalink
I came up with a side-bet that can be used in live poker games. Players can bet that they have a "NUT HAND". This bet allows players to show the strength of their hand by allowing them to make it during live play. A player can thus use this side-bet to directly affect the live game they're playing!

Click HERE

Questions and comments are welcome. Thanks!
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.
Zcore13
Zcore13
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August 20th, 2015 at 12:22:52 AM permalink
Interesting concept. I'm adding a side bet to our Poker tables (2 of the 6 to start) in the next 60 days or so. It's already live at another location in the State and is doing well.

Good luck to you.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
discflicker
discflicker
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August 20th, 2015 at 7:32:41 AM permalink
Zcore13: Thanks for your interest. I looked at a thread you started in 2013 called "Is card influencing possible in Texas Hold-em?",
(here it is)
where you claim that the way you hold your hole cards affects the luck of the outcome. That is voodoo baloney, however, as some of viewers pointed out, perhaps it affected your posturing and conveyed hand strength.

My new side-bet jackpot is a "sanctioned" way of showing hand strength... I think it's the first and only time this has even been possible in poker. If I make a $10 bet that I have the nuts, while I'm playing my live table hand, that shows strength, and it doesn't depend upon my body posturing, my stare-downs, my 2-minute delays, my playing with chip stacks or by grabbing the corner of my hole cards. Of course, it might be a bluff as well.

Does anyone see the hidden beauty of this?

Does anyone think this is illegal, or violates any gaming codes?
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.
andysif
andysif
Joined: Aug 8, 2011
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August 20th, 2015 at 6:30:13 PM permalink
Quote: discflicker

Zcore13: Thanks for your interest. I looked at a thread you started in 2013 called "Is card influencing possible in Texas Hold-em?",
(here it is)
where you claim that the way you hold your hole cards affects the luck of the outcome. That is voodoo baloney, however, as some of viewers pointed out, perhaps it affected your posturing and conveyed hand strength.

My new side-bet jackpot is a "sanctioned" way of showing hand strength... I think it's the first and only time this has even been possible in poker. If I make a $10 bet that I have the nuts, while I'm playing my live table hand, that shows strength, and it doesn't depend upon my body posturing, my stare-downs, my 2-minute delays, my playing with chip stacks or by grabbing the corner of my hole cards. Of course, it might be a bluff as well.

Does anyone see the hidden beauty of this?

Does anyone think this is illegal, or violates any gaming codes?



I like your idea very much. This side bet is really PART OF THE GAME.
You maybe bluffing or the jackpot is worth more than the pot. Very interesting.
discflicker
discflicker
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August 20th, 2015 at 6:46:13 PM permalink
Quote: andysif



I like your idea very much. This side bet is really PART OF THE GAME.
You maybe bluffing or the jackpot is worth more than the pot. Very interesting.



That is good feedback, I thank you!

I don't know if you followed my full description link, but I came up with some variations that reward the first player to make the bet; my hope is that will entice it to be played.

I'm only concerned that there might be some kind of restrictions on these types of bets. Where are PaiGow Dan and MathEx when I really need 'em? I might need to start a poll to ask the question.

Thanks for your interest, Andysif.
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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August 21st, 2015 at 12:32:37 AM permalink
Interesting concept, but I think it needs a lot more polishing before it's workable. Don't say "here are all 12 ways for you to spread my bet," instead give the poker room manager the *best* way. If you can't figure out what that is, you're not ready.

What happens when someone makes the bet pre-flop and everyone else folds to him? Do they win? Does the dealer deal out the board anyway?

I don't know if it's counter to any regs per se, but the bet sounds like the odds change dramatically while at the same time betting into a progressive pot. That means the EV is going to fluctuate wildly. In other words, ripe for AP players. Probably too vulturable to work long-term.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
djatc
djatc
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August 21st, 2015 at 12:35:05 AM permalink
Because it's a casino side bet, does the money made from that go to a different pile then the rake? Does the payouts happen from the chips in the dealer's tray?
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
tongni
tongni
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August 21st, 2015 at 12:43:48 AM permalink
if you can find a game where people are betting $10 on nutjack preflop, i will fly there tomorrow
discflicker
discflicker
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August 21st, 2015 at 11:12:58 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Interesting concept, but I think it needs a lot more polishing before it's workable. Don't say "here are all 12 ways for you to spread my bet," instead give the poker room manager the *best* way. If you can't figure out what that is, you're not ready.


12 ways was derived from me offering 4 game variations, and then offering a choice of how many betting phases the player is allowed to make NutJack side-bets in. BRAVO, again, MathEx, you show your genius. Thanks for looking into the idea, and I apologize for my lengthy Asperger's-style description.

In my opinion, the *best* way would be the variation "All-In, First-Nut NutJack", and allowing players to make the NutJack side-bet on the ante, pre-flop, flop and turn, but I NEVER PLAYED IT, I JUST THOUGHT IT UP 2 days ago!!! I wasn't sure if it is legal or not before I spend $$ with my patent attorney. Your saying it IS legal to make a side-bet that also directly impacts the assumed strength of a live hand being dealt, right? Hmmm, I might have to make the call to Jon Shackelford after all of this positive feedback I'm getting here on WoV!
Quote: MathExtremist


What happens when someone makes the bet pre-flop and everyone else folds to him? Do they win? Does the dealer deal out the board anyway?


Great forethought, MathEx... in this case, they obviously win the live game pot, and now, I guess the dealer will have to go ahead and deal out the live-game hand, just to see if he hit his nut hand. And now that I'm thinking about it, players can use this to force the house to reveal what deck held.... they won't have to beg the dealer, they can just buy it now. Maybe that's a bad thing, if other players are betting against you ("you have to pay to see 'em"), but these situations aren't quite the same. Personally, have no problem seeing what I missed out on, it would only take a few extra seconds, and only when the house got paid to do it by way of the side-bet commission..
Quote: MathExtremist


I don't know if it's counter to any regs per se, but the bet sounds like the odds change dramatically while at the same time betting into a progressive pot. That means the EV is going to fluctuate wildly. In other words, ripe for AP players. Probably too vulnerable to work long-term.



Ripe for AP players... if that means "Advanced Players", yes I agree. If that means Advantage Poker players who'd use the bet to bluff, then that is exactly the beauty of the idea.

THANKS for taking the time, MathEx.... I owe you a boatload of golf discs!!
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.
discflicker
discflicker
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August 21st, 2015 at 11:42:47 AM permalink
Quote: djatc

Because it's a casino side bet, does the money made from that go to a different pile then the rake? Does the payouts happen from the chips in the dealer's tray?



Please see the write-up. In non-electronic implementations, a plastic jackpot accumulation box can sit on the table next to the dealer (just like many of today's jackpot antes are collected) TOTALLY SEPARATE from the live game.

In front of the box is an "enqueuing region" for in-progress NutJack side-bets. This is a set of 9 or 18 spots, each marks a player seat position, and the dealer positions NutJack bets on these spots as he accepts them. The region thus indicates who's is making the bet as the hand progresses.

The region is cleared at the end of each hand: If the player makes the NutJack side-bet, and doesn't get a nut-hand, the bet goes into the jackpot accumulation box. If he wins, the jackpot money comes out of the box.

This has nothing to to with the table money, other than the money to pay for NutJack side-bets comes from player's live game stacks, but hey, that's already allowed to pay for drinks at the table and to pay for dealer's tips.

Thanks for your interest.
The difference between zero and the smallest possible number? It doesn't matter; once you cross that edge, it might as well be the difference between zero and 1. The difference between infinity and reality? They are mutually exclusive.

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