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hwccdealer
hwccdealer
Joined: Jun 4, 2013
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January 27th, 2014 at 10:40:26 AM permalink
I've never seen anything like what I'm about to suggest anywhere and almost wonder why no one's thought of it. It's exactly what it sounds like - a game that plays like roulette, except with cards.

I take, say, six decks, an auto shuffler, and two jokers from each deck, and load them. To start off a round, I burn a card, draw three cards, let a player pick one at random, and turn it up - and that's the result of the round.

Betting would be like roulette in this manner, in that you can bet on:
-Specific card (i.e. ace of diamonds, pays 51-1)
-Split bet (i.e. ace of diamonds and ace of hearts, pays 25-1 if one hits)
-Joker (pays 25-1)
-Rank (i.e. aces, pays 12-1)
-Corner (i.e. aces of diamonds and hearts, kings of diamonds and hearts, pays 12-1)
-Joker plus two (pays 12-1)
-Suit (i.e. diamonds, pays 3-1)
-Red/black, pays even

Here's where it gets tricky - betting the "top line," or the Joker and all four aces (as I would have the board laid out) has six winners and 48 losers, so a 0% house edge would pay 8-1. The other bets have a 3.7% house edge (lower than double-zero roulette) so lowering the payout to 7-1 would make this bet a lousy one (11.1% house edge.) My solution would be to pay is at 15-2, or 7.5-1, which may require either a special 50-cent chip or quarters a la baccarat to make the house edge a little less overwhelming.

Same with a line bet equivalent (two ranks, i.e. aces and kings, or eight cards at once.) If one rank pays 12-1, two would pay 11-2, or 5.5-1, and it's the same house edge as most other bets.

Splitting the Joker and an ace would be easier in that regard, I can just call it 16-1 and deal with a 5.56% house edge.

The only real complication with the game would be the 50-cent chips. The attraction would be, of course, the lower house advantage than roulette, the familiarity of the cards, and the simplicity of the game, not to mention the possibility of a 3-card, 5-card, or other multi-turn side bet.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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January 27th, 2014 at 10:53:15 AM permalink
Quote: hwccdealer

I've never seen anything like what I'm about to suggest anywhere and almost wonder why no one's thought of it. It's exactly what it sounds like - a game that plays like roulette, except with cards.

I take, say, six decks, an auto shuffler, and two jokers from each deck, and load them. To start off a round, I burn a card, draw three cards, let a player pick one at random, and turn it up - and that's the result of the round.

Betting would be like roulette in this manner, in that you can bet on:
-Specific card (i.e. ace of diamonds, pays 51-1)
-Split bet (i.e. ace of diamonds and ace of hearts, pays 25-1 if one hits)
-Joker (pays 25-1)
-Rank (i.e. aces, pays 12-1)
-Corner (i.e. aces of diamonds and hearts, kings of diamonds and hearts, pays 12-1)
-Joker plus two (pays 12-1)
-Suit (i.e. diamonds, pays 3-1)
-Red/black, pays even

Here's where it gets tricky - betting the "top line," or the Joker and all four aces (as I would have the board laid out) has six winners and 48 losers, so a 0% house edge would pay 8-1. The other bets have a 3.7% house edge (lower than double-zero roulette) so lowering the payout to 7-1 would make this bet a lousy one (11.1% house edge.) My solution would be to pay is at 15-2, or 7.5-1, which may require either a special 50-cent chip or quarters a la baccarat to make the house edge a little less overwhelming.

Same with a line bet equivalent (two ranks, i.e. aces and kings, or eight cards at once.) If one rank pays 12-1, two would pay 11-2, or 5.5-1, and it's the same house edge as most other bets.

Splitting the Joker and an ace would be easier in that regard, I can just call it 16-1 and deal with a 5.56% house edge.

The only real complication with the game would be the 50-cent chips. The attraction would be, of course, the lower house advantage than roulette, the familiarity of the cards, and the simplicity of the game, not to mention the possibility of a 3-card, 5-card, or other multi-turn side bet.



I don't see any reason why you couldn't do this. Perhaps you could even strip the deck of 2-5, keep the Jokers, and have the same pays as Roulette exactly? Put 6-8 decks in a CSM and keep dealing it all day long, one card at a time. Some houses might put this in where they can't get Roulette approved but can deal cards, or don't want to spend the money or the floor space on a Roulette table; the layout could be on a regular table. Might still need a table marquee to track past performance, though. And DJTB's Poker-for-Roulette sidebet would fit nicely on it.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 27th, 2014 at 11:08:48 AM permalink
Quote: hwccdealer

I've never seen anything like what I'm about to suggest anywhere and almost wonder why no one's thought of it. It's exactly what it sounds like - a game that plays like roulette, except with cards.


Combining cards and roulette is an idea that many people have considered. It's already in California:
http://www.inag11.com/mysterycard_roulette_lg.html
but otherwise hasn't been successful in casinos. However, I've seen variations of roulette with cards plenty of times, both in patent applications and in descriptions of game rules sent to me by clients. Look through the patent database for several versions:

https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#q=roulette+playing+card&tbm=pts
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
doubleluck
doubleluck
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
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January 27th, 2014 at 11:18:15 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Combining cards and roulette is an idea that many people have considered. It's already in California:
http://www.inag11.com/mysterycard_roulette_lg.html
but otherwise hasn't been successful in casinos. However, I've seen variations of roulette with cards plenty of times, both in patent applications and in descriptions of game rules sent to me by clients. Look through the patent database for several versions:

https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#q=roulette+playing+card&tbm=pts


There is another roulette type card game (that has no wheel) that I saw in an Oklahoma Indian Casino a few years ago that sounds very similar to this concept. I believe the name of the game is "Faro's Revenge".
Buzzard
Buzzard
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January 27th, 2014 at 11:31:48 AM permalink
" I don't see any reason why you couldn't do this. "

I don't see any reason why you should do this !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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January 27th, 2014 at 11:32:27 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" I don't see any reason why you couldn't do this. "

I don't see any reason why you should do this !



That's an entirely different question...lol.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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January 27th, 2014 at 11:36:40 AM permalink
It is a common failing. Thinking because you can do something in life, then you should do it.

Especially when you put in the word blackjack, table game, etc. in an USPTO search engine.

Make you wonder sometimes if the inventor has even been inside a casino in his lifetime.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
MrCasinoGames
MrCasinoGames
Joined: Sep 13, 2010
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January 27th, 2014 at 11:57:03 AM permalink
I have 2 old games like that: invented in 2000.

CardWin® Roulette: Cloth based on Stripped deck, 36 Playing Cards plus two jokers representing zero and double zero. Single or combination bets to match any of/all three cards dealt.

CardWin® Lotto: 52 card lay-out. Single or combination bets to match any of/all five cards dealt.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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January 27th, 2014 at 4:17:51 PM permalink
You should definitely create this game, and definitely deal it out of a 6 or 8 deck shoe. And whatever you do, don't shuffle too often. You wouldn't want to waste time that you could be spending getting more action from the ploppies :P.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
hwccdealer
hwccdealer
Joined: Jun 4, 2013
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January 29th, 2014 at 7:55:08 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

You should definitely create this game, and definitely deal it out of a 6 or 8 deck shoe. And whatever you do, don't shuffle too often. You wouldn't want to waste time that you could be spending getting more action from the ploppies :P.



Hence the idea of an auto-shuffler, the kind used to take money at my casino from ploppies who play War and 6-5 Blackjack. Frankly, this type of game would be perfect for a "party pit" atmosphere with low limits and people who don't understand how to gamble. The main difficulty I would have is all the bets that would pay "x to 2" or "x and a half to 1." Also to simplify the betting structure from roulette, since, as a dealer, I try to explain the difference between $15 minimum on the outside (per bet) and $15 minimum on the inside (combined.) And the maximums are tricky, too, with inside max being $50 any way to a number but outside max being either $2500 or $5000. I would just make the whole thing "$10 minimum combined or $500 maximum combined, no more than $50 on any spot" and assume most ploppies could understand it.

If the game has been tried and failed in other places, I would love to see what didn't work. We don't have anything like it at my casino and none of my co-workers have ever heard of such an idea. I also didn't see it in PR or Vegas, so I assume it's a very niche game for now.

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