21Revolution
21Revolution
Joined: Dec 27, 2012
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June 16th, 2013 at 6:18:02 PM permalink
Hi all,
Thought I would go ahead and post this game for feedback.

Dealer First Blackjack

“Before your turn, find out if the dealer will hit, stay, or show you a dealer bust!”

Here is the 10 second summary:

"Blackjack, but the dealer has to hit first. If the dealer busts after taking one hit- he shows. In that case, players complete their hand as they choose where staying with less than 17 is a push. If he hasn’t busted, the hand is played just like traditional Blackjack.”

To deal it, the dealer’s first 2 cards are face down. With 17-21, the dealer simply stays without revealing any cards (Blackjack can be revealed and hands resolved). If the dealer has less than 17, he takes a hit and shows the hit card. If he doesn’t bust, it is then the player’s turn just like traditional Blackjack.

If he does bust, the hand is revealed with a rule that players staying with less than 17 will push- and a player bust results in a loss. Players may double and split. So, if the player has a hard 12, there are 5 cards which will make 17-21, but 4 cards which will be a bust. This makes for an interesting double down which would be the right play. Other double hands are stress free, where players can’t lose, but need to make 17-21 for their double to win.

This game does require technology in order to direct the dealer how to proceed without the dealer knowing the value of his hand. It certainly could be played via online, ”slot”, or electronic table. I welcome your thoughts.

Thanks,

Dave
MrCasinoGames
MrCasinoGames
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June 16th, 2013 at 10:41:52 PM permalink
Hi 21Revolution,

Just to let you know, my friend Derek Webb already has a game (Jack-Black) and a US-Patent 6,305,689.
I think you should have a look at it before going a head with you Dealer First Blackjack.

United States Patent 6,305,689
Webb October 23, 2001
Method and apparatus for playing a reverse blackjack card game

Abstract
A Blackjack derivative card game incorporates a reverse play methodology, wherein after dealing hands of cards to a player and to a dealer, the dealer's hand is resolved in accordance with predetermined game rules prior to resolving the player's hand.
If the dealer is still in the game after resolving the dealer's hand, the player's hand is then resolved in accordance with the rules.
With this methodology, disadvantages associated with conventional game play such as Blackjack can be eliminated.
For example, with the dealer hand exposed and resolved, the players are not required and do not perceive a requirement to understand a basic strategy. Rather, the goal is simply to beat the dealer's hand.
The impact of card counting can also be eliminated, and the speed of game play can be increased.

Inventors: Webb; Derek J. (Derby, GB)
Assignee: Prime Table Games LLC (Las Vegas, NV)
Family ID: 23239609
Appl. No.: 09/318,798
Filed: May 26, 1999
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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June 17th, 2013 at 2:29:12 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

A Blackjack derivative card game incorporates a reverse play methodology, wherein after dealing hands of cards to a player and to a dealer, the dealer's hand is resolved in accordance with predetermined game rules prior to resolving the player's hand.
If the dealer is still in the game after resolving the dealer's hand, the player's hand is then resolved in accordance with the rules.
With this methodology, disadvantages associated with conventional game play such as Blackjack can be eliminated.
For example, with the dealer hand exposed and resolved, the players are not required and do not perceive a requirement to understand a basic strategy. Rather, the goal is simply to beat the dealer's hand.
The impact of card counting can also be eliminated, and the speed of game play can be increased.



Since there are no decisions to make, the HE should be high?

Had to look for this, "Removal of these house advantages is recompensed by pushing player wagers when the dealer busts, rather than players winning, as is the case in conventional Blackjack. "
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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June 17th, 2013 at 3:47:56 AM permalink
I could see this being popular as a sucker machine, but as a real game people would probably hate it.
I am a robot.
21Revolution
21Revolution
Joined: Dec 27, 2012
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June 17th, 2013 at 4:48:43 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Since there are no decisions to make, the HE should be high?

Had to look for this, "Removal of these house advantages is recompensed by pushing player wagers when the dealer busts, rather than players winning, as is the case in conventional Blackjack. "



Yes, good callout- I did see and reference this patent. These are very different in that the dealer's hand is not necessarily resolved because only one hit is taken. Cards are only revealed immediately when he busts. And the player's hands definitely are not resolved with predetermined rules. The mystery and challenge of decision making is very much in play.
21Revolution
21Revolution
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June 17th, 2013 at 4:50:47 AM permalink
Revealing a dealer bust does a couple things:

1. Creates a fun event where players can double their hand knowing if they make 17-21 it will win. Note this occurs on about 18% of hands where the dealer busts with 3 cards.

2. Creates a new strategy when he reveals a hit card, but has not yet busted. For example, if he hit a 10 without busting (now having 3 cards), chances are good he has already made a hand.

With cards 2-6, he might still bust, but it isn't as strong of a bust card as traditional Blackjack. Players will hit a few more hands like in this case.

Generally, players are able to make better hit/stand decisions. More often than traditional Blackjack, players will have the satisfaction of feeling they were able to steer the hand the right way, even when that doesn't result in a win.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 17th, 2013 at 6:44:17 AM permalink
The concept in the original post is different than Derek's parent. Whether the patent overlaps or not is for greater minds than mine.

Assuming there's no patent problems, getting the technology indicated in the original post will be a major roadblock to the game.

I think it's an interesting game concept, but you're gonna have a hard time getting past these obstacles.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
McDemon
McDemon
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June 17th, 2013 at 7:22:06 AM permalink
Need a lot more thinking out, as it stands I can't see this gaining any traction.. back to the drawing board methinks
Controversial sometimes, brutally honest..Always
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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June 17th, 2013 at 8:04:19 AM permalink
Not terrible. I'd have to see HE to see if I'd ever play it, but I've enjoyed similar games. These will never be a standard for me though due to the higher HE than regular BJ.

I would be concerned with the number of possibilities at the start of the hand. You deal the cards and you have 4 outcomes

Dealer 21
Dealer 17-20 = good
Dealer 16+ hit = Good
Dealer 16+ hit = Bust


I don't know the number of people that care much about strategy. I do know a lot of newer games are giving tips to players on how to play. This is fine because the games still might have a 2-4% advantage. What you don't want to happen is people have no idea how to play it and create some 20% HE and get an extremely bad impression of the game. Dealer 21 is easy to understand. I'd be concerned that each of the other 3 have fairly different strategies and people aren't going to want to learn them.


In no way am I an expert. I'm simply a person that plays such games from time to time. Complexity is the killer for me in BJ variants.
21Revolution
21Revolution
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June 17th, 2013 at 10:09:53 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

The concept in the original post is different than Derek's parent. Whether the patent overlaps or not is for greater minds than mine.

Assuming there's no patent problems, getting the technology indicated in the original post will be a major roadblock to the game.

I think it's an interesting game concept, but you're gonna have a hard time getting past these obstacles.



100% agree - The technology is a barrier in that simple felt installations are not possible. However, felt based platforms from SHFL and Digideal do allow for this type of game. Ignoring felt, any online or slot based platform would also be able to deliver.

Part of the reason for posting this is it is possible for me to get this game out there. The challenge is that you can’t cheaply build the software just to do a “test”. It would require paying for that and then giving the game a chance to gain traction. I thought this is a good way to see if it is worth trying to attract that investment.

McDemon, if there are other aspects that you are seeing, please let me know. I am truly looking to find out if the game itself, technology aside, would be a fun way to play.

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