When does the Gaming Day end for TC accumulation?
So, for Caesars Entertainment, when do they terminate the Gaming Day for the purpose of totaling up the Daily Tier Credits earned to figure the TC Bonus? Seems like a simple question to answer, but it's easier to get the Feds to admit to aliens at Roswell than to get any kind of answer out of CE's folks.
Anyone know? I'm looking specifically for the two Cherokee casinos. Thanks!
ETA: I am NOT interested in "structuring" or "smurfing" or any of that money-laundering crap. All I really want to know is when CE starts counting TCs earned for any given day.
You really need to call the cage to ask at each casino.
I also found that "offer days" were sometimes different than "casino days" or "point days."
I'll give you an example.
At one Caesars casino the win/loss day for point earnings ended at 2am but the offers started at 6am.
If they have so called 24 hour offers for example, daily Freeplay is available from 6am to 5:59am the following morning, then that's a good indicator of their "day".
But some properties are ten am to midnight or such and the casino "day" isn't as obvious.
I honestly didnt know there was a difference in the two "starting times" and it cost me.
When I showed up at the casino at 11:58pm on June 30th I was 780 points shy of renewing my tier level. Getting 780 points in 2 hours was no problem. But I discovered the tier levels reset at midnight -- not at 2AM.
The result: I didnt renew at my previous level.
Ironically during the next few hours of play I put on over 24,000 points.
If you're curious, yes I asked that they "back up" some of my play to renew my previous tier level. They did.
You can ask about offers or tier credit bonus terms, but the question you asked will always go unanswered.
Quote: PlayYourCardsRightYou may not be interested in structuring, but Title 31 prohibits answering that question for that reason.
You can ask about offers or tier credit bonus terms, but the question you asked will always go unanswered.
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That is not true as the casino marketing day can be different than the day used for AML compliance. Some of the casinos where I was in charge of AML compliance used different hours than the marketing systems. We liked to close our compliance day while the auditors were in the building (8am-5pm).
Our staff was instructed not to disclose the compliance day hours but could disclose the hours for the slot club.
Quote: DRichQuote: PlayYourCardsRightYou may not be interested in structuring, but Title 31 prohibits answering that question for that reason.
You can ask about offers or tier credit bonus terms, but the question you asked will always go unanswered.
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That is not true as the casino marketing day can be different than the day used for AML compliance. Some of the casinos where I was in charge of AML compliance used different hours than the marketing systems. We liked to close our compliance day while the auditors were in the building (8am-5pm).
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DRich is correct.
Furthermore this very subject came up before and I was able to show actual printed literature with the gaming day hours distributed by the Golden Nugget AC as well as other casinos.
24 hour freeplay availability specifically gives away what the marketing game day is.
And finally there are many casinos in the US that for various reasons are not open 24 hours. If the casino closes every day from 4am until 8am, it's pretty obvious what the gaming day is. They aren't in violation of title 31 because they have to close every night.
I read title 31 and don't see any clause that prohibits this Information anyway. Casinos have to report financial transactions. Doesn't say they can't inform the public that such things occur. Hell, the public can look it up right on the government websites.
Quote: darkoz
I read title 31 and don't see any clause that prohibits this Information anyway. Casinos have to report financial transactions. Doesn't say they can't inform the public that such things occur. Hell, the public can look it up right on the government websites.
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Actually AML/BSA strictly prohibits disclosing the hours for AML compliance. They know by disclosing them it will encourage structuring. I taught AML/BSA compliance to casinos for many years.
Quote: DRichQuote: darkoz
I read title 31 and don't see any clause that prohibits this Information anyway. Casinos have to report financial transactions. Doesn't say they can't inform the public that such things occur. Hell, the public can look it up right on the government websites.
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Actually AML/BSA strictly prohibits disclosing the hours for AML compliance. They know by disclosing them it will encourage structuring. I taught AML/BSA compliance to casinos for many years.
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Then the marketing day must be different to comply.
As I said it's practically information given away by different scenarios. Casinos that don't operate 24 hours, 24 hour freeplay eligibility, and various other marketing literature for promotions I have seen.
Quote: darkoz
Then the marketing day must be different to comply.
As I said it's practically information given away by different scenarios. Casinos that don't operate 24 hours, 24 hour freeplay eligibility, and various other marketing literature for promotions I have seen.
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What is interesting is that if a person even asks about the times of the gaming day as it relates to AML/BSA the casino must file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the patron.
Quote: DRichQuote: darkoz
Then the marketing day must be different to comply.
As I said it's practically information given away by different scenarios. Casinos that don't operate 24 hours, 24 hour freeplay eligibility, and various other marketing literature for promotions I have seen.
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What is interesting is that if a person even asks about the times of the gaming day as it relates to AML/BSA the casino must file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the patron.
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Then I must have thousands of SAR's on me.
Knowledge of gaming days is important to certain Advantage Play tactics.
So I guess the question is who really cares. If you aren't actually money laundering, a SAR just says you need attention.
Furthermore, I can only imagine that the number of SAR reports must be in the tens of thousands a year. Perhaps hundreds of thousands.
So they probably just run the name and if no record pops up, that SAR is placed on the ignore pile.
Quote: darkozQuote: DRichQuote: darkoz
Then the marketing day must be different to comply.
As I said it's practically information given away by different scenarios. Casinos that don't operate 24 hours, 24 hour freeplay eligibility, and various other marketing literature for promotions I have seen.
link to original post
What is interesting is that if a person even asks about the times of the gaming day as it relates to AML/BSA the casino must file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the patron.
link to original post
Then I must have thousands of SAR's on me.
Knowledge of gaming days is important to certain Advantage Play tactics.
So I guess the question is who really cares. If you aren't actually money laundering, a SAR just says you need attention.
Furthermore, I can only imagine that the number of SAR reports must be in the tens of thousands a year. Perhaps hundreds of thousands.
So they probably just run the name and if no record pops up, that SAR is placed on the ignore pile.
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I doubt it. Although casinos are supposed to file them my experience says that they rarely do. The only ones I remember being filed were when it was obviously structuring. For example, a customer comes up to cashout $7000 and the clerk asks for ID because they already cashed out more than $3000 in the previous 24 hours. The customer asks why they have to give ID. The clerk answers that the amount will put them over $10k for the past 24 hours so it is required. The customer then asks when the 24 hours will be over so they can come back and cash out later. That will generally result in a filed SAR.
Quote: DRich
What is interesting is that if a person even asks about the times of the gaming day as it relates to AML/BSA the casino must file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the patron.
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I asked a pit boss, and they sent me straight over to the cage (good standard answer, I imagine. Otherwise, according to DRich, the pit boss would have to fill out a SAR) So I asked the cage, and they reacted like Dracula staring at a cross. And they didn't ask me who I was, so no SAR.
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So, it's clearly a different question. How can I ask about the marketing day and ensure that I am not asking about the AML hours? (I am sure someone is going to say "When does the marketing day end?")
Quote: BillHasRetiredQuote: DRich
What is interesting is that if a person even asks about the times of the gaming day as it relates to AML/BSA the casino must file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the patron.
link to original post
I asked a pit boss, and they sent me straight over to the cage (good standard answer, I imagine. Otherwise, according to DRich, the pit boss would have to fill out a SAR) So I asked the cage, and they reacted like Dracula staring at a cross. And they didn't ask me who I was, so no SAR.
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So, it's clearly a different question. How can I ask about the marketing day and ensure that I am not asking about the AML hours? (I am sure someone is going to say "When does the marketing day end?")
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Go to a host and ask.
Couch it in terms of your comps.
Example:, "I recently had another property cut my offers significantly. My host at that property said I only gave a little play on one day but noted I crossed the gaming day change. He suggested I only play during a specific gaming day hours if I don't intend to play heavy both days. So can you tell me the gaming day change here at this property so I don't mess up my offers."
I find hosts will generally answer a question if it is couched in a manner they expect to see profit (a good customer) from.
Quote: BillHasRetired
So, it's clearly a different question. How can I ask about the marketing day and ensure that I am not asking about the AML hours? (I am sure someone is going to say "When does the marketing day end?")
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I generally ask the player's club booth staff, indirectly.
They may know that if you're playing around 2am, the system may stop tracking your points, and you need to pull the card and reinsert to have your play recorded properly.
Not all systems have this shortcoming, but enough do that I don't get weird looks when I inquire.
I started rolling at about 3:55am and my friend asked the box to close out his play even though he had money on the table.
He explained it to me:
Since we were going to leave after my roll ended, he didn't want a tiny amount of play showing on his account after 4am as this would hurt his daily average.
So at about 3:57 he was closed out... I rolled till about 4:10. We left.
Quote: AlanMendelsonI was playing craps with a friend at a casino that used 4am as the start of a new Gaming day.
I started rolling at about 3:55am and my friend asked the box to close out his play even though he had money on the table.
He explained it to me:
Since we were going to leave after my roll ended, he didn't want a tiny amount of play showing on his account after 4am as this would hurt his daily average.
So at about 3:57 he was closed out... I rolled till about 4:10. We left.
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The slot player tracking systems that I have worked on would not have a session span a gaming day for posted play. They would either post the whole session to the starting day or the ending day.
Quote: DRichQuote: AlanMendelsonI was playing craps with a friend at a casino that used 4am as the start of a new Gaming day.
I started rolling at about 3:55am and my friend asked the box to close out his play even though he had money on the table.
He explained it to me:
Since we were going to leave after my roll ended, he didn't want a tiny amount of play showing on his account after 4am as this would hurt his daily average.
So at about 3:57 he was closed out... I rolled till about 4:10. We left.
link to original post
The slot player tracking systems that I have worked on would not have a session span a gaming day for posted play. They would either post the whole session to the starting day or the ending day.
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With slot play you can't ask a craps table boxman to "close me out."
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: DRichQuote: AlanMendelsonI was playing craps with a friend at a casino that used 4am as the start of a new Gaming day.
I started rolling at about 3:55am and my friend asked the box to close out his play even though he had money on the table.
He explained it to me:
Since we were going to leave after my roll ended, he didn't want a tiny amount of play showing on his account after 4am as this would hurt his daily average.
So at about 3:57 he was closed out... I rolled till about 4:10. We left.
link to original post
The slot player tracking systems that I have worked on would not have a session span a gaming day for posted play. They would either post the whole session to the starting day or the ending day.
link to original post
With slot play you can't ask a craps table boxman to "close me out."
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At a slot, you don’t have to ask anyone. You just reach out and pull your card from the slot yourself.
I have used what DRich is talking about in some plays I’ve had. Not necessarily at the end of the gaming day, but with a late night promo that began at midnight. The play would take 2-3 hours to show X amount of coin in between midnight and 6:00 am, and I didn’t want to be there till 2:00 or 3:00. I found I could start at 9:00 or even earlier, and as long as I had a continuous session at a single machine (no royals/hand pays or an abandoned card) and I pulled the card after midnight, I was good to go! Fortunately, the late night personnel didn’t care that I showed 3 hours of play in 6 minutes…
Quote: DRichQuote: AlanMendelsonI was playing craps with a friend at a casino that used 4am as the start of a new Gaming day.
I started rolling at about 3:55am and my friend asked the box to close out his play even though he had money on the table.
He explained it to me:
Since we were going to leave after my roll ended, he didn't want a tiny amount of play showing on his account after 4am as this would hurt his daily average.
So at about 3:57 he was closed out... I rolled till about 4:10. We left.
link to original post
The slot player tracking systems that I have worked on would not have a session span a gaming day for posted play. They would either post the whole session to the starting day or the ending day.
link to original post
Pulling the card out and reinserting it after the new day begins is usually how it works.
Unfortunately there are a number of reasons you might find yourself taking the card out and reinserting it.
1:. You won a handpay
2.. machine malfunction and attendant needs to fix
3.. your card simply disengages from the system and you realize you aren't gaining points any longer.
4. Just plain switching machines.
