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VIDEO POKER OPPORTUNITY WITH 105% RETURN

I welcome all comments about that article. After this post, I will copy and paste a post I made prior to writing that article from the Sequential Royal thread.

The question for the poll is would you play this game?

I paid a visit to the Red Rock to confirm this game. The screen above shows the jackpot as of about 1PM on Oct 17.

The same jackpot is available on six different base games. The following table shows those games with the return for all royals paying 800x the bet amount.

Base game | Pay table | Return |

Bonus Poker Deluxe | 6-5 | 0.953611 |

Jacks or Better | 6-5 | 0.949961 |

Triple Double Bonus | 7-5 | 0.949178 |

Double Double Bonus | 6-5 | 0.946569 |

Double Bonus | 8-5 | 0.941897 |

Bonus Poker | 10-8-5-3-1 | 0.941829 |

As you can see, Bonus Poker Deluxe offers the best value.

The next table shows the return with optimal strategy, including card position for 8-6 Bonus Poker Deluxe. The lower right cell shows a return of 105.22%!

This has an expected profit of 1.3 cents per hand. Assuming a playing speed of 1000 hands per hour, the expected win per hour is $13.05, not including the value of points earned.

Outcome | Win | Combinations | Probability | Return |
---|---|---|---|---|

Reversible Royal Flush | 807,782 | 67,567,248 | 0.000001 | 0.109525 |

Royal Flush | 4,000 | 2,531,111,347 | 0.000025 | 0.020317 |

Straight Flush | 250 | 10,545,248,235 | 0.000106 | 0.005290 |

Four of a Kind | 400 | 246,151,065,684 | 0.002470 | 0.197580 |

Full House | 30 | 811,309,337,868 | 0.008140 | 0.048842 |

Flush | 25 | 1,067,259,148,415 | 0.010708 | 0.053542 |

Straight | 20 | 1,275,953,861,466 | 0.012802 | 0.051209 |

Three of a Kind | 15 | 7,722,917,814,918 | 0.077488 | 0.232464 |

Two Pair | 5 | 10,770,132,885,066 | 0.108062 | 0.108062 |

Jacks or Better | 5 | 22,463,692,195,905 | 0.225389 | 0.225389 |

All Other | 0 | 55,295,592,349,848 | 0.554808 | 0.000000 |

Totals | 99,666,152,586,000 | 1.000000 | 1.052220 |

The next table shows the return with optimal strategy, NOT including strategy changes for card position. It is based on an average royal of 17,396 coins, which is a weighted average between 1/60 the jackpot and 59/60 a win of 4000 coins. The lower right cell shows a return of 103.56%.

Outcome | Prize | Combinations | Probability | Return |
---|---|---|---|---|

Royal Flush | 17,396 | 52,825,312 | 0.000032 | 0.110643 |

Straight Flush | 250 | 160,811,571 | 0.000097 | 0.004841 |

Four of a Kind | 400 | 4,128,394,310 | 0.002485 | 0.198827 |

Full House | 30 | 13,632,719,598 | 0.008207 | 0.049242 |

Flush | 25 | 18,607,023,152 | 0.011202 | 0.056008 |

Straight | 20 | 20,468,179,301 | 0.012322 | 0.049288 |

Three of a Kind | 15 | 129,801,408,860 | 0.078142 | 0.234425 |

Two Pair | 5 | 181,189,140,336 | 0.109078 | 0.109078 |

Jacks or Better | 5 | 370,795,511,313 | 0.223223 | 0.223223 |

All Other | 0 | 922,266,529,347 | 0.555213 | 0.000000 |

Totals | 1,661,102,543,100 | 1.000000 | 1.035574 |

The next table shows the return with optimal strategy for non-progressive 8/6 Bonus Poker Deluxe. The lower right cell shows a return of 101.97%.

Outcome | Prize | Combinations | Probability | Return |
---|---|---|---|---|

Royal Flush | 17,396 | 40,987,885 | 0.000025 | 0.085850 |

Straight Flush | 250 | 179,539,017 | 0.000108 | 0.005404 |

Four of a Kind | 400 | 4,136,976,035 | 0.002491 | 0.199240 |

Full House | 30 | 13,653,938,163 | 0.008220 | 0.049319 |

Flush | 25 | 18,041,709,548 | 0.010861 | 0.054306 |

Straight | 20 | 21,688,438,418 | 0.013057 | 0.052227 |

Three of a Kind | 15 | 129,936,095,954 | 0.078223 | 0.234668 |

Two Pair | 5 | 181,027,999,728 | 0.108981 | 0.108981 |

Jacks or Better | 5 | 381,597,343,986 | 0.229725 | 0.229725 |

All Other | 0 | 910,799,514,366 | 0.548310 | 0.000000 |

Total | 1,661,102,543,100 | 1.000000 | 1.019720 |

Are these different from the machines you spotted or did the meter rise dramatically in just a couple of days?

If they are a different set of machines have you checked their paytables, etc.?

Quote:AlanMendelsonIn the Red Rock casino near the buffet, but near the restrooms on the opposite wall, there are four reversible royal 5-cent machines with the jackpot north of $73,000.

Are these different from the machines you spotted or did the meter rise dramatically in just a couple of days?

If they are a different set of machines have you checked their paytables, etc.?

The machines I refer to are near the Starbucks in the food court (as opposed to the one by the gift shop). I will have to return to look for these $73,000 jackpot games.

"The bottom line is if a reversible royal pays 10,000 coins, it adds 0.45% to 0.50% to the return, depending on the particular game and pay table. A fair average to assume is 0.466%."

It should be 50,000 coins. Or 10000 for 1.

Quote:WizardCan anyone else confirm or deny this $73,000 nickel game by the buffet?

I sent you a photo.

There are only three of this, not four.

Quote:AlanMendelsonI sent you a photo.

There are only three of this, not four.

Thanks Alan.

Strange there are two separate banks of games with enormous jackpots. Perhaps a rollover from some other jackpot that was removed?

Quote:tringlomaneFYI, on your WOO page you wrote this.

"The bottom line is if a reversible royal pays 10,000 coins, it adds 0.45% to 0.50% to the return, depending on the particular game and pay table. A fair average to assume is 0.466%."

It should be 50,000 coins. Or 10000 for 1.

Thanks, you're right.

Quote:ChumpChangeIf you're expecting a 105.22% payback and don't hit your sequential royal that pays 11% of the total payback, you're really playing a 94.25% machine. You'll need that sequential royal to break even.

This is exactly correct.. There is less than 1 in a million chance (per deal) of making a sequential royal - and 11% of your equity is tied up in this long-shot. If you don't make a reversible royal, then this is a dog of a VP game.

And if you do hit the $40,000 jackpot remember that it will be reported to the IRS and income tax will take a bite out of it. It's difficult to be an AP.

Good news: The jackpot is almost twice as much.

Good news: Better base pay tables.

Bad news: Jackpot requires betting 10 coins (as opposed to 5 coins for the games by the Starbucks in the food court)

All things considered, the returns are nearly the same:

Starbucks: 105.22%

Buffet: 105.26%

The expected win per hour (assuming 1,000 bets per hour) is also much better:

Starbucks: $14.33/hr.

Buffet: $23.63/hr.

Quote:ChumpChangeIf you're expecting a 105.22% payback and don't hit your sequential royal that pays 11% of the total payback, you're really playing a 94.25% machine. You'll need that sequential royal to break even.

This is not the way any decent career AP looks at expected value. The play has an hourly EV and a variance per hand. Over a very long time frame, the standard deviation of an AP's results is determined only by their accumulated variance. There are a number of tools available to calculate risk of ruin and bankroll requirements. If an AP has an appropriate bankroll such that the the RoR is low, then the only question is is the EV/hour worth it versus other opportunities. The Kelly criteria are another way of deciding the same question. If the max bet is 25 or 50 cents and Kelly says you could risk $2 per hand if that was an option, then your bankroll is adequate to play this game.

There is no basis for removing any of the winning hands from the EV without putting it in context of bankroll calculations. For every single-line VP game that I know of, the most likely result over a session of exactly one hand is a 100% loss. Extending the logic of the comment above, I need a paying hand to get any ROI and I am unlikely to get a paying hand. Therefore, I should eliminate all paying hands from my EV calculation and assign every VP game with a 0% ROI if I intend to only play one hand. This is absurd.

The real question is does the gambler have the bankroll and stomach to undertake the variance offered by the opportunity. I have a cell in my spreadsheet that tracks my estimated variance for VP play. I have an accumulated lifetime variance of 140B dollars

^{2}just from video poker and more from other forms of gambling. If I estimate that the total is really 160B dollars

^{2}, the square root of this is $400K. My lifetime standard deviation is roughly +/- $400K. If I added one SRF chase, it would be a drop in the ocean compared to my lifetime variance -- whether or not I hit the SRF.

Even if you don't have great records, you can easily estimate how much variance you incur in a year doing what you already do. You can see how this play stacks up in comparison to your other gambling. Variance is simply additive. Over the long term, a million dollars

^{2}variance from chasing a SRF progressive is the same as a a million dollars

^{2}of variance from blackjack. The variance of the game in the OP is about 18K.

you might want to clarify how come the buffet game is so much more per hr profit.Quote:WizardI returned to the Red Rock today to investigate Alan's game.

Good news: The jackpot is almost twice as much.

Good news: Better base pay tables.

Bad news: Jackpot requires betting 10 coins (as opposed to 5 coins for the games by the Starbucks in the food court)

All things considered, the returns are nearly the same:

Starbucks: 105.22%

Buffet: 105.26%

The expected win per hour (assuming 1,000 bets per hour) is also much better:

Starbucks: $14.33/hr.

Buffet: $23.63/hr.

ie: that the starbucks game is .25 and the buffet one is nickels.

and what are pay tables offered at the buffet ones?

Quote:MentalThis is not the way any decent career AP looks at expected value. The play has an hourly EV and a variance per hand. Over a very long time frame, the standard deviation of an AP's results is determined only by their accumulated variance. There are a number of tools available to calculate risk of ruin and bankroll requirements. If an AP has an appropriate bankroll such that the the RoR is low, then the only question is is the EV/hour worth it versus other opportunities. The Kelly criteria are another way of deciding the same question. If the max bet is 25 or 50 cents and Kelly says you could risk $2 per hand if that was an option, then your bankroll is adequate to play this game.

There is no basis for removing any of the winning hands from the EV without putting it in context of bankroll calculations. For every single-line VP game that I know of, the most likely result over a session of exactly one hand is a 100% loss. Extending the logic of the comment above, I need a paying hand to get any ROI and I am unlikely to get a paying hand. Therefore, I should eliminate all paying hands from my EV calculation and assign every VP game with a 0% ROI if I intend to only play one hand. This is absurd.

The real question is does the gambler have the bankroll and stomach to undertake the variance offered by the opportunity. I have a cell in my spreadsheet that tracks my estimated variance for VP play. I have an accumulated lifetime variance of 140B dollars^{2}just from video poker and more from other forms of gambling. If I estimate that the total is really 160B dollars^{2}, the square root of this is $400K. My lifetime standard deviation is roughly +/- $400K. If I added one SRF chase, it would be a drop in the ocean compared to my lifetime variance -- whether or not I hit the SRF.

Even if you don't have great records, you can easily estimate how much variance you incur in a year doing what you already do. You can see how this play stacks up in comparison to your other gambling. Variance is simply additive. Over the long term, a million dollars^{2}variance from chasing a SRF progressive is the same as a a million dollars^{2}of variance from blackjack. The variance of the game in the OP is about 18K.

Would you say Powerball is a positive EV if you factor in the one in a billion chance of hitting the top prize?

The game in question will return 94% to the thousands of people who play it and 105% to the one person who basically gets hit by lightning. To say that the game has an Ev of $ten dollars or more an hour seems very wrong as every person who plays it, with one exception is playing a very poor game.

If a casino had a blackjack game where the dealer won all ties, but it offered a million-dollar prize if every player at the table got a suited BJ, and the dealer got a BJ in spades, would you call that game a +EV?

When you start including once in a lifetime events into a games ev, the formula seems flawed.

Quote:billryan<snip>If a casino had a blackjack game where the dealer won all ties, but it offered a million-dollar prize if every player at the table got a suited BJ, and the dealer got a BJ in spades, would you call that game a +EV?<snip>

YES!..... If I could play heads-up ;-)

Dog Hand

Quote:100xOddsyou might want to clarify how come the buffet game is so much more per hr profit.

ie: that the starbucks game is .25 and the buffet one is nickels.

and what are pay tables offered at the buffet ones?

It's mainly because you can bet twice as much at the buffet games. The pay tables are stated in my article.

Quote:WizardIt's mainly because you can bet twice as much at the buffet games. The pay tables are stated in my article.

Isn't the buffet 60% less than the Starbucks game? 10 nickels versus 5 quarters?

And again, there will be no escaping the Tax Man on a $40K or $80K jackpot. It is non-trivial to claim gambling losses to offset a big win, and with the standard deduction at about $20k it may be hard to avoid the tax man altogether. It may still be positive EV after taxes but these are factors worth mentioning.

Quote:rdw4potusIsn't the buffet 60% less than the Starbucks game? 10 nickels versus 5 quarters?

The Starbucks game is 5 nickels.

Quote:billryanWould you say Powerball is a positive EV if you factor in the one in a billion chance of hitting the top prize?

The game in question will return 94% to the thousands of people who play it and 105% to the one person who basically gets hit by lightning. To say that the game has an Ev of $ten dollars or more an hour seems very wrong as every person who plays it, with one exception is playing a very poor game.

Actually, the game does have an expected value of $50/hr for both the lucky player and the others. You are confusing EV with realized gains or losses.

Quote:When you start including once in a lifetime events into a games ev, the formula seems flawed.

Clearly, Powerball is a positive EV if the math says it is +EV. The math for expectation value is clear and unambiguous. I think you meant to ask me if I think the Powerball lottery is an opportunity that I want to partake in as an AP, 'given in the one in a billion chance of hitting the top prize?'

I would approach this the same way I approached the game at Red Rock. What is the variance, what is the EV, what is the hourly expected profit, and what is my bankroll? You have not laid out a specific payout structure or overlay for your hypothetical lottery, but I can tell you that I have nowhere near the bankroll to attack a big lottery like Powerball without substantial risk of ruin. I don't need to have all the numbers nailed down to know this.

I have most of the numbers nailed down for the $150K Red Rock quarter SRF progressive. I don't know the meter rate or the number of seat or the level of competition for the progressive. For example, if competitors play 9 out of 10 hands because there are five seats and I am there 50% of the time, I will only play about 150K hands per chase and I don't get back all of my own meter advance back if competition intensifies as the meter grows.. If I lock the game up (with help of a team), I will have to fund 1.5M hands per chase, on average. These details make a small difference to playability. Still, I could run bad on a long series of plays like the Red Rock game or watch someone else hit the SRF ten times and I would still have a huge bankroll left. The math tells me I have enough bankroll because the variance is much lower than the variance of my normal gambling regimen, and that is easily within my bankroll.

I am not "including once in a lifetime events into a games ev" -- I am comparing the variance of a gambling opportunity to my lifetime variance, and it is tiny in comparison. For other gamblers, the variance might seem huge and they do not have the bankroll or the stomach to take on the opportunity.

I am saying that there is a well-established mathematical framework for approaching these kinds of questions. You might want to try and use it rather than listening to your gut.

Bank by Starbucks:

Oct 19: $40,389

Dec 2: $40,741

Bank by buffet:

Oct 19: $73,860

Dec 2: $75,489

Here is my original article about these 105%+ games.

Quote:USpapergamesHonestly, I wouldn't believe these claims of a 5% player edge for video poker in 2020 if this information wasn't coming from you.

Thanks for your faith in me. Please read my article (linked above) for the full rules.

I'm quite sure the reason these games are not being pounded is the bet amount is small, thus the hourly expected win is also small, and that much of the return is in the reversible royal, which could take months of play to hit. Probably not a good Kelly bet for most professional gamblers.

When Governor Sisolak ordered 50% occupancy chairs were removed. More chairs were removed with the new 25% occupancy.

Chances are high that if you moved a chair to an open machine another player or security or a slot attendant would say something to you.

Quote:USpapergamesHonestly, I wouldn't believe these claims of a 5% player edge for video poker in 2020 if this information wasn't coming from you. Anyone else & I would just assume they got their numbers wrong. A .05℅player edge of .05% I could see, but somebody clearly made a mistake with a 5% edge. It's a heck of a lot of math to check but I will when I get the time, but for now congrats on the find. If I lived in Vegas I would murder this machine from sunrise to sunset, at least till they changed the payouts lol.

It is pretty easy to put a lower bound on the ROI. If you used basic strategy ignoring the sequential RF, one out of 60 RFs would end up being forward or reverse sequential by accident. This falls to one out of 32 if you value SRFs more than life itself and draw for every RF where the draw could be a SRF.. Just adjust the value of the RF in any VP calculator for these ratios of jackpot SRFs and you will get the ROI by favoring RFs but not specifically sequentially ordered draws. You will see very high ROIs. Getting the optimal strategy requires doing some real work.

For more info, look at my thread: https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/35213-handling-sequential-royals-in-an-video-poker-analyzer/

Quote:AlanMendelsonThere's another reason these games are not being pounded, Wizard: seating restrictions. Did you happen to check the number of chairs at each grouping of machines?

Good point. It seemed to me at the time I was there, around 1:00 PM on a Wednesday, there were still empty seats at both banks.

Quote:WizardIt seemed to me at the time I was there, around 1:00 PM on a Wednesday, there were still empty seats at both banks.

Yes. Empty seats by design.

Mike.... if I told you I could guarantee that on your next dollar bet you could win $45k, what would you say the real EV of that bet is for you, tax effect included?

Quote:SOOPOOI think you should include a ‘tax cost per hour’ in your calculations. Winning a Jackpot of $45k + is difficult to ‘wash’

Mike.... if I told you I could guarantee that on your next dollar bet you could win $45k, what would you say the real EV of that bet is for you, tax effect included?

If you go to an ordinary job and earn $45K for the year, that is difficult to 'wash' if , by 'wash', you mean fraudulently avoid paying taxes.

Quote:AlanMendelsonYes. Empty seats by design.

Well...no? If 3/4 of the chairs were removed from the floor to enforce the 25% occupancy cap, then the remaining chairs (the "empty seats") are designed to be sat in.

Might as well stop by and check out these machines.

Probably just spend 20 dollars hoping lightning strikes

Quote:MentalIf you go to an ordinary job and earn $45K for the year, that is difficult to 'wash' if , by 'wash', you mean fraudulently avoid paying taxes.

I didn’t necessarily mean fraudulently. If you play 100 hours before you hit it you certainly have a few thousand to legally write off.

But I’ll agree with you that most who attack this type of opportunity do use ‘fraudulent’ techniques. When it comes to taxes.

Quote:SOOPOOI think you should include a ‘tax cost per hour’ in your calculations. Winning a Jackpot of $45k + is difficult to ‘wash’

Mike.... if I told you I could guarantee that on your next dollar bet you could win $45k, what would you say the real EV of that bet is for you, tax effect included?

I believe almost 100% of gamblers cheat on their taxes by not claiming all wins.

Quote:SOOPOOI think you should include a ‘tax cost per hour’ in your calculations. Winning a Jackpot of $45k + is difficult to ‘wash’

Mike.... if I told you I could guarantee that on your next dollar bet you could win $45k, what would you say the real EV of that bet is for you, tax effect included?

This question is just a massive variable. I'm definitely not the all-knowing tax man but I do know that the amount of tax you pay depends on your yearly income. I believe the minimum federal tax is 35% so if your income was nothing other than the jackpot that's still a great reward on top of a machine that already has a positive E.V. in all its other payouts! Sounds to me like anyone with the knowledge of how to play video poker optimally could make around 5x minimum wage playing that machine!

. It is my understanding that it has a significant -EV if you eliminate the value of the big jackpot.Quote:USpapergamesThis question is just a massive variable. I'm definitely not the all-knowing tax man but I do know that the amount of tax you pay depends on your yearly income. I believe the minimum federal tax is 35% so if your income was nothing other than the jackpot that's still a great reward on top of a machine that already has a positive E.V. in all its other payouts! Sounds to me like anyone with the knowledge of how to play video poker optimally could make around 5x minimum wage playing that machine!

Minimum federal tax is less than 35%.

As far as ‘making’ 5x minimum wage.... I think it is fairer to say what the EV per hour is. MOST people if they just play one machine hoping to hit it will actually lose money.

Quote:SOOPOOI think you should include a ‘tax cost per hour’ in your calculations. Winning a Jackpot of $45k + is difficult to ‘wash’

I've had this comment before with other games. No matter what cost I arbitrarily decide, 99% of readers will disagree with it. So I leave adjusting for taxes up to the dealer.

Quote:terapinedHeading to the red rock canyon scenic drive today

Might as well stop by and check out these machines.

Probably just spend 20 dollars hoping lightning strikes

Let me know if they demand a reservation to do the scenic drive.

Check out the cake by T-Bones.

75,522.63

2 empty seats on one side but 3rd seat a smoker

Other side 1 empty seat so have to sit next to someone

Starbucks

40,748.25

2 seats empty, not sitting next to anybody and 2 players nonsmokers

Going in and see if I can strike lightening

See how long to lose 10 bucks lol

Quote:USpapergamesI believe the minimum federal tax is 35% so if your income was nothing other than the jackpot that's still a great reward on top of a machine that already has a positive E.V. in all its other payouts! Sounds to me like anyone with the knowledge of how to play video poker optimally could make around 5x minimum wage playing that machine!

The minimum US tax rate is actually negative for those with an earned income credit. When I was a graduate student, I asked my professor to give me a taxable job instead a a tax-free job because my tax rate was negative. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit

For people not eligible for the EIC, the minimum tax US rate is 0% and tens of millions of people pay at this 0% federal rate.

Here are some non-zero tax brackets:

2020 Federal Income Tax Brackets and Rates

Rate For Single Individuals For Married Individuals Filing Joint Returns

10% Up to $9,875 Up to $19,750

12% $9,876 to $40,125 $19,751 to $80,250

22% $40,126 to $85,525 $80,251 to $171,050

24% $85,526 to $163,300 $171,051 to $326,600

Quote:SOOPOOI didn’t necessarily mean fraudulently. If you play 100 hours before you hit it you certainly have a few thousand to legally write off.

Breaking news: Losses are a bad thing!

You don't ever want losses. You should never pass up a +EV opportunity because it does not generate enough losses.

Fake losses on player's account are a different matter.

Quote:terapinedBy the buffet

75,522.63

2 empty seats on one side but 3rd seat a smoker

Other side 1 empty seat so have to sit next to someone

Starbucks

40,748.25

2 seats empty, not sitting next to anybody and 2 players nonsmokers

Going in and see if I can strike lightening

See how long to lose 10 bucks lol

Played about 30min

Won 6 bucks

Tired of playing, want to be outside, not inside.

Onto the scenic drive

Quote:SOOPOO. It is my understanding that it has a significant -EV if you eliminate the value of the big jackpot.

Minimum federal tax is less than 35%.

As far as ‘making’ 5x minimum wage.... I think it is fairer to say what the EV per hour is. MOST people if they just play one machine hoping to hit it will actually lose money.

So your saying that the machines jackpot is so overpriced that it's paying out positive E.V. not just on it's probability of success but making up for all the lost E.V. on every other payout? Now I definitely need to look into the math on this game :( That jackpot has to be so far from its default payouts that any operator should spot it!

Quote:WizardThanks for your faith in me. Please read my article (linked above) for the full rules.

I'm quite sure the reason these games are not being pounded is the bet amount is small, thus the hourly expected win is also small, and that much of the return is in the reversible royal, which could take months of play to hit. Probably not a good Kelly bet for most professional gamblers.

How small of a bet amount do you think it was? $0.25 max won't get me coming there :/

Quote:WizardLet me know if they demand a reservation to do the scenic drive.

Check out the cake by T-Bones.

I got to the scenic drive

There is a sign that said reservations required

Oh no

Another sign said don't back up due to spikes

I pull up to the station and tell them I have no reservation.

They said 17 bucks

Woohoo

It was magnificent

Took a lot of pics

Stopped at all the parking spots

Disappointed how short it was.

Buffet

75,533.03

All seats filled

Smoker I noticed earlier before my drive still there

Quote:USpapergamesSo your saying that the machines jackpot is so overpriced that it's paying out positive E.V. not just on it's probability of success but making up for all the lost E.V. on every other payout? Now I definitely need to look into the math on this game :( That jackpot has to be so far from its default payouts that any operator should spot it!

That is the whole point of this thread! Duh....

Quote:USpapergamesSo your saying that the machines jackpot is so overpriced that it's paying out positive E.V. not just on it's probability of success but making up for all the lost E.V. on every other payout? Now I definitely need to look into the math on this game :( That jackpot has to be so far from its default payouts that any operator should spot it!

A long time ago, I played on a $1 Joker Wild progressive at Showboat that reached an ROI of 105.7%. I was trying to get the operator to spot it and shut it down so they would not lose money. Before I could alert them, my wife hit it for $12.7K. Women always mess things up!

Just curious why you care one way or another if the casino/operator loses or wins money? Why would they shut down a progressive just because it reached a positive state? This makes no sense and almost feels like you are trolling.Quote:MentalA long time ago, I played on a $1 Joker Wild progressive at Showboat that reached an ROI of 105.7%. I was trying to get the operator to spot it and shut it down so they would not lose money. Before I could alert them, my wife hit it for $12.7K. Women always mess things up!

Quote:MentalI was trying to get the operator to spot it and shut it down so they would not lose money. Before I could alert them, my wife hit it for $12.7K. !

I assure you they did not lose money on that. You don't understand how progressives work.