Video poker Play
I was told that the
Jacks or Better has a return of 99.5
gamblingonline com video-poker strategy jacks-or-better/
Deuces wild has a return of RTP of 100.76%
Reference Casino Reports Video Poker
I have played the strategy suggested in the
Wizard of Odds Video Poker Hand Analyzer
Reference wizardofodds com games video-poker
Jacks or Better $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush - 4000
Deal 1 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 2 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 3 Lost
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Lost
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 3 of a Kind 15
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Lost
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
Deuces Wild $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush No Deuces - 4000
Deal 1 Lost
Deal 2 Lost
Deal 3 Three of a Kind 5
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Straight 10
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 Lost
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Straight 10
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
Not only this, I have seen few people put in a few hundreds @ Video Poker machines and they all went down in a few minutes.
Compared to Video poker I felt that the Table Black Jack was better, I would some times earn atleast 120% of the money that I have put in.
Were they bad machines? Were the cards not favorable to me on Video Poker? Was it because of a less bank roll? What is a minimum bank roll needed?
I could not figure out what was going wrong,
Any suggestions on the playing? Thanks
My first question would be... did you confirm that you're playing the correct pay table? It wouldn't matter what pay table you were playing as that wouldn't change the frequencies of the hands.Quote: James85I played the Video Poker at MGM Grand, Bellagio, TL, Flamingo, Venetian.
I was told that the
Jacks or Better has a return of 99.5
gamblingonline com video-poker strategy jacks-or-better/
Deuces wild has a return of RTP of 100.76%
Reference Casino Reports Video Poker
I have played the strategy suggested in the
Wizard of Odds Video Poker Hand Analyzer
Reference wizardofodds com games video-poker
Jacks or Better $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush - 4000
Deal 1 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 2 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 3 Lost
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Lost
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 3 of a Kind 15
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Lost
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
Deuces Wild $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush No Deuces - 4000
Deal 1 Lost
Deal 2 Lost
Deal 3 Three of a Kind 5
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Straight 10
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 Lost
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Straight 10
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
Not only this, I have seen few people put in a few hundreds @ Video Poker machines and they all went down in a few minutes.
Compared to Video poker I felt that the Table Black Jack was better, I would some times earn atleast 120% of the money that I have put in.
Were they bad machines? Were the cards not favorable to me on Video Poker? Was it because of a less bank roll? What is a minimum bank roll needed?
I could not figure out what was going wrong,
Any suggestions on the playing? Thanks
Hopefully you understand that the 99.5% & the 100.76 payback's that you quoted doesn't mean that's what you're going achieve those numbers each session/day/ week/ year and so on. You're going to experience short-term variance. The more hands you play, the closer you should get to the calculated percentage Payback, but it's unlikely you will ever achieved those exact percentages. There's really nothing you can do to help, other than playing correctly on good pay tables and playing many many many many hands.
Quote: ECoasterYou only played 10 hands, which is a tiny sample--- but remember even 9/6 Jacks or Better is a losing game. Plus, a big part of that return % is in the big hands like the royal, straight flush, 4OAK... If you have sessions where you're not getting any of those, you're balance will drop pretty quick.
Not only me, I have seen others put in a few hundreds, played many and they lost too.
Quote: James85Not only me, I have seen others put in a few hundreds, played many and they lost too.
You will lose far more hands than you win. The big difference is that while you only lose five credits a hand, you can win much more.
If you played 100,000 hands , give or take however many, your wins should equal about 99% of what you put in.
Quote: James85Not only me, I have seen others put in a few hundreds, played many and they lost too.
Even when I was just starting out learning about video poker, I was clueless, but not quite as clueless as you appear to be. I don't mean to sound insulting, but I will guess that you have NO chance. Don't even waste your time.
James, you don't seem clueless to me. You seem like a guy who has fallen for the casino's marketing. The vast majority of today's casino games are losers. Most of us will never see a game where we have an advantage that lasts more than a few hands.Quote: bobbartopEven when I was just starting out learning about video poker, I was clueless, but not quite as clueless as you appear to be. I don't mean to sound insulting, but I will guess that you have NO chance. Don't even waste your time.
The best way to beat the casinos is to stay out of them. If you are going to play casino games, know they are not there to pay anyone's bills except their own. Play for entertainment. Don't risk money you can't afford to lose. Before you walk in pull out your money and look at it. How will you feel when you walk out broke? This will happen far more times than you will walk out a winner.
Determine how much your casino entertainment is worth to you? As you are playing, don't think about how good you will feel when you hit a big jackpot. Think about how bad you will feel when you lose your money 9 out of 10 times. This will help you to develop discipline. An attribute that is far more valuable than skill.
"Todays"? They always were and always will be.Quote: SingleCoinVPThe vast majority of today's casino games are losers.
The best thing to do is to move on to something else and change with the times. You can entertain yourself via gambling AND have +EV. Obviously, if you want to go with the flow(take it on the chin) and continue to play the same game with much worse pay tables and adjust to playing one coin then that's on you. I get the feeling that BTB doesn't want to play for just entertainment, he wants both entertainment and positive EV. Some people actually feel dirty when they play negative expectation games knowing there's opportunities out there where they have the advantage.
Quote: SingleCoinVP
The best way to beat the casinos is to stay out of them.
Hey Single, I just said that to James.
Poor guy came here for help, actually we just gave him the best advice he could want. No need to thank us, that's what me and Single are here for. But it remains, who is going to help me and Single?
I enjoy the casino as long as it's on my terms. The casino keeps changing those terms. The minimum bet on our so called "Penny Slots" has been increasing. Video poker odds have dropped substantially. Comps and points have decreased steadily. I can let the casino dictate my cost to play or I can play as cheap as possible. I choose the later.Quote: bobbartopHey Single, I just said that to James.
Poor guy came here for help, actually we just gave him the best advice he could want. No need to thank us, that's what me and Single are here for. But it remains, who is going to help me and Single?
Quote: SingleCoinVPI enjoy the casino as long as it's on my terms.
And your terms are that you are content with being a loser. You voluntarily choose to be a loser. And you've probably repeated this with almost every post of yours, ad nauseum. There are several posters on this forum who work their butts off to win. Yes, I said "work".
Quote: bobbartopAnd your terms are that you are content with being a loser. You voluntarily choose to be a loser. And you've probably repeated this with almost every post of yours, ad nauseum. There are several posters on this forum who work their butts off to win. Yes, I said "work".
If it isn't handed to you, is it really worth having? Work is so 20th Century.
The tenor of your posts is that you think the casino is up to something fishy. If you happened to be sitting next to a guy who just won thousands with a Royal Flush would you have the same thought? You know how many losing hands are needed to make up for that one Royal Flush?
Quote: SOOPOOJames, welcome to the forum. Are you familiar with the term "variance"? If not, it will help your understanding of what happened to you a lot.
The tenor of your posts is that you think the casino is up to something fishy. If you happened to be sitting next to a guy who just won thousands with a Royal Flush would you have the same thought? You know how many losing hands are needed to make up for that one Royal Flush?
That depends on how many coins one plays.Some folks seem to think playing a game where the Royal is a 250 coin payout is a good idea.
It all depends on what you want for your money. Some people are comfortable paying 3-6 times the amount of a max coin royal just for the anticipation value. Would it make the game any more enjoyable for me to win $20K if it cost me $60K or more to do so?Quote: billryanThat depends on how many coins one plays.Some folks seem to think playing a game where the Royal is a 250 coin payout is a good idea.
The acknowledgment of being a long term video poker loser does not hurt my ego or my wallet as long as I can control the amount. Expecting to be a winner and losing does.
There's no anticipation of value, you either have it or you don't.Quote: SingleCoinVPIt all depends on what you want for your money. Some people are comfortable paying 3-6 times the amount of a max coin royal just for the anticipation value. Would it make the game any more enjoyable for me to win $20K if it cost me $60K or more to do so?
The acknowledgment of being a long term video poker loser does not hurt my ego or my wallet as long as I can control the amount. Expecting to be a winner and losing does.
Every gambler deals with this in a different way. Some only play when they have an advantage believing they have math on their side. Some accept the cost as entertainment. Some quit the game, even to the point of having themselves banned. I am not telling anyone how they should approach gambling. I do believe every approach should be open to discussion.
Quote: SingleCoinVPMuch of the excitement of gambling comes from anticipation. You remember the days when you won big and are hoping history will repeat itself. You remember the times you lost.
As a former high stakes video poker player, there was little excitement involved in day to day playing. When I would hit a $50,000 royal all I would do is calculate how far overdue I was. Don't get me wrong, it is usually fun to hit your first royal after moving up in stakes, but after playing 50 hours a week for years it isn't fun or exiciting.
I can image that is true. I have played video poker a minimum of one full day a week for over ten years myself. I quit counting royals years ago. To me, hitting one for $62.50 isn't a disaster. Coming home down $300-$500 a week for months at a time is. It's much better for me to play like I do. My daily bankroll limit is $100. Rarely do I lose it all. I'm not a long term winner, but my weekly cost to play is less than some people pay to eat lunch.Quote: DRichAs a former high stakes video poker player, there was little excitement involved in day to day playing. When I would hit a $50,000 royal all I would do is calculate how far overdue I was. Don't get me wrong, it is usually fun to hit your first royal after moving up in stakes, but after playing 50 hours a week for years it isn't fun or exiciting.
Quote: SingleCoinVPI can image that is true. I have played video poker a minimum of one full day a week for over ten years myself. I quit counting royals years ago. To me, hitting one for $62.50 isn't a disaster. Coming home down $300-$500 a week for months at a time is. It's much better for me to play like I do. My daily bankroll limit is $100. Rarely do I lose it all. I'm not a long term winner, but my weekly cost to play is less than some people pay to eat lunch.
What's the point here? Is there one? One that you haven't expressed over and over? Accurate play + sufficiently high return on paytable + mailer/freeplay + promos + etc., = long term winner. Otherwise, quit whining.
Nobody's whining. I'm happy with my cost to play. I play all the video poker I want for a fraction of the players around me. This poster started out with a totally false assumption. New players assume it's easy to beat the casino. I haven't heard anyone that does make that claim. They tell me it's hard work. They tell me it's getting harder all the time. They tell me few can do it. Why teach players a strategy with such a low success rate? I would rather tell them 99.9% of video poker players pay to play. It's up to them to decide how much.Quote: bobbartopWhat's the point here? Is there one? One that you haven't expressed over and over? Accurate play + sufficiently high return on paytable + mailer/freeplay + promos + etc., = long term winner. Otherwise, quit whining.
That's my biggest concern for the OP. I can't imagine you could find 9-6 Jacks or FPDW at any of the casinos he mentioned. Especially $1 FPDW. Can you even find that anywhere in the world these days?Quote: AxelWolfMy first question would be... did you confirm that you're playing the correct pay table?
An excellent question. I believe they still have FPDW on a few quarter machines at Red Rock. 9/6 Jacks is even harder to find. Most have been downgraded to 7/5, 8/5 or 9/5 even at $5 a coin. Last year we played at the Borgata in A/C. With the help of a forum member we found one 9/6 Jacks quarter machine. I doubt it's still there. I heard they pulled all the old machines and replaced them with the new "NO PAY" versions, Decent pay tables are disappearing fast. I suppose that leaves scalping and progressives. What happens when they are gone too?Quote: JoemanThat's my biggest concern for the OP. I can't imagine you could find 9-6 Jacks or FPDW at any of the casinos he mentioned. Especially $1 FPDW. Can you even find that anywhere in the world these days?
Quote: SingleCoinVPNobody's whining.
See? No wonder you can't win. You don't even know what whining is.
You, are whining. It's a free country, though.
Quote: vegasJames you did not play full pay deuces wild at MGM Grand, Bellagio, TL, Flamingo, Venetian
He didn't say "full pay deuces". He just said deuces wild. Naturally, all deuces wild returns 100.76%. Of course.
Quote: SingleCoinVPAn excellent question. I believe they still have FPDW on a few quarter machines at Red Rock. 9/6 Jacks is even harder to find. Most have been downgraded to 7/5, 8/5 or 9/5 even at $5 a coin. Last year we played at the Borgata in A/C. With the help of a forum member we found one 9/6 Jacks quarter machine. I doubt it's still there. I heard they pulled all the old machines and replaced them with the new "NO PAY" versions, Decent pay tables are disappearing fast. I suppose that leaves scalping and progressives. What happens when they are gone too?
Omg, gtfo. You don't know nuthin. That's why you voluntarily choose to lose. LAZY.
Btw, you're whining again.
I'm pointing out how farcical advantage play strategy is. It's a strategy that claims to beat games that for most no longer exist. It leads players to believe jackpots are owed. No limits are imposed because the math is infinite even though players are not. It's true some players win long term. Playing better games gives you more chances at getting lucky. It does not guarantee you will.Quote: bobbartopSee? No wonder you can't win. You don't even know what whining is.
You, are whining. It's a free country, though.
Quote: SingleCoinVPAn excellent question. I believe they still have FPDW on a few quarter machines at Red Rock. 9/6 Jacks is even harder to find. Most have been downgraded to 7/5, 8/5 or 9/5 even at $5 a coin. Last year we played at the Borgata in A/C. With the help of a forum member we found one 9/6 Jacks quarter machine. I doubt it's still there.
lol this is funny, on so many levels
Am I getting trolled? Seriously, I'm usually the last to know when I'm getting my chain yanked. I'm a sucker.
Quote: SingleCoinVPI'm pointing out how farcical advantage play strategy is. It's a strategy that claims to beat games that for most no longer exist. It leads players to believe jackpots are owed. No limits are imposed because the math is infinite even though players are not. It's true some players win long term. Playing better games gives you more chances at getting lucky. It does not guarantee you will.
Ok, I fell for it. Good one. How many of y'all were in on this? Let's get Bob Bartop all wound up. He's an old fool. He'll fall for it. He'll fall for anything.
Don't take it personally. It's all in good fun.Quote: bobbartoplol this is funny, on so many levels
Am I getting trolled? Seriously, I'm usually the last to know when I'm getting my chain yanked. I'm a sucker.
Quote: SingleCoinVPDon't take it personally. It's all in good fun.
No, it's not. I'm an old man with high blood pressure. You're pissing me off.
I stopped playing online poker when I turned 60. Every time I got check-raised my blood pressure went up. The paramedics put in a new parking space in front of my house. I made them lunch when they wanted.
Nothing is a guarantee, however, if done correctly it's all but certain you will make money.Quote: SingleCoinVPI'm pointing out how farcical advantage play strategy is. It's a strategy that claims to beat games that for most no longer exist. It leads players to believe jackpots are owed. No limits are imposed because the math is infinite even though players are not. It's true some players win long term. Playing better games gives you more chances at getting lucky. It does not guarantee you will.
I'm very sorry you have wasted 10 years losing less in stead of winning money all those year's.
Quote: bobbartopNo, it's not. I'm an old man with high blood pressure. You're pissing me off.
I stopped playing online poker when I turned 60. Every time I got check-raised my blood pressure went up.
Lol. And here I always pictured you as some California hipster with free range chickens or something in his yard.
many VPers do not understand Risk of Ruin and never will.Quote: James85Jacks or Better $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush - 4000
Deal 1 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 2 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 3 Lost
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Lost
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 3 of a Kind 15
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Lost
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
Deuces Wild $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush No Deuces - 4000
Deal 1 Lost
Deal 2 Lost
Deal 3 Three of a Kind 5
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Straight 10
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 Lost
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Straight 10
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
I could not figure out what was going wrong,
Any suggestions on the playing? Thanks
the return of a game has NOTHING to do (mostly) with a session win.
Here is some data calculated for JOB 9/6
probability of showing a net loss after X hands played
| X | Probability |
|---|---|
| 10 | 58.11% |
| 100 | 58.85% |
| 200 | 59.53% |
| 400 | 61.19% |
| 600 | 62.62% |
| 800 | 63.83% |
| 1,000 | 64.87% |
| 5,000 | 71.96% |
| 10,000 | 69.91% |
| 15,000 | 65.44% |
| 20,000 | 62.36% |
| 50,000 | 63.07% |
| 100,000 | 65.31% |
| 200,000 | 69.26% |
Quote: mcallister3200Lol. And here I always pictured you as some California hipster with free range chickens or something in his yard.
That sounds cool. I can dig it. I'd have to name them.
If you have chicken(s) that are named Tasha, lusciousSweet, Kentry, James85 and Natan how many chickens would you actually have?Quote: bobbartopI'd have to name them.
Quote: AxelWolfIf you have chicken(s) that are named Tasha, lusciousSweet, Kentry, James85 and Natan how many chickens would you actually have?
I don't know. This looks like a trick question. How many are roosters and how many are hens?
Quote: bobbartopI don't know. This looks like a trick question. How many are roosters and how many are hens?
It's real tricky when some are both.
Quote: bobbartopHe didn't say "full pay deuces". He just said deuces wild. Naturally, all deuces wild returns 100.76%. Of course.
I decided to try it. I played a $5 bet and should have been paid $5.04:
Instead I was paid zero. My return was 0%.
I must have done something wrong, but I can't see it.
This is this a joke right?Quote: HugoSlaviaI decided to try it. I played a $5 bet and should have been paid $5.04:
Instead I was paid zero. My return was 0%.
I must have done something wrong, but I can't see it.
Quote: HugoSlaviaI decided to try it. I played a $5 bet and should have been paid $5.04:
Instead I was paid zero. My return was 0%.
I must have done something wrong, but I can't see it.
Missed it by *that* much, Chief.
Hey Hugo, I just want to thank you again, I corrected my error on hard 17 and 6-card Charlie in single deck. You were right and I was wrong. And I had been doing it wrong for a long time. So thank you! Sometimes I need another person's viewpoint to see my mistakes in life.
Quote: AxelWolfThis is this a joke right?
Attempted humor.
I was hoping to find a funnier pay schedule, but at $5 denom the casino decided to give players somewhat of a chance.
Quote: 7crapsmany VPers do not understand Risk of Ruin and never will.
the return of a game has NOTHING to do (mostly) with a session win.
Here is some data calculated for JOB 9/6
probability of showing a net loss after X hands played
X Probability 10 58.11% 100 58.85% 200 59.53% 400 61.19% 600 62.62% 800 63.83% 1,000 64.87% 5,000 71.96% 10,000 69.91% 15,000 65.44% 20,000 62.36% 50,000 63.07% 100,000 65.31% 200,000 69.26%
Those numbers seem to suggest almost a one in three chance of being ahead after 100,000 hands. That seems high to me.
There was a lady (the Queen) present as well. Does that make it better ... or worse?Quote: prozemaHe held Jack King Off suit. Get it? Funny...
Quote: drrockThere was a lady (the Queen) present as well. Does that make it better ... or worse?
It's way better with chicks.
Quote: James85I played the Video Poker at MGM Grand, Bellagio, TL, Flamingo, Venetian.
I was told that the
Jacks or Better has a return of 99.5
gamblingonline com video-poker strategy jacks-or-better/
Deuces wild has a return of RTP of 100.76%
Reference Casino Reports Video Poker
I have played the strategy suggested in the
Wizard of Odds Video Poker Hand Analyzer
Reference wizardofodds com games video-poker
Jacks or Better $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush - 4000
Deal 1 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 2 Jacks or Better 5
Deal 3 Lost
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Lost
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 3 of a Kind 15
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Lost
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
Deuces Wild $0.25 $0.50 $1 Royal Flush No Deuces - 4000
Deal 1 Lost
Deal 2 Lost
Deal 3 Three of a Kind 5
Deal 4 Lost
Deal 5 Straight 10
Deal 6 Lost
Deal 7 Lost
Deal 8 Lost
Deal 9 Lost
Deal 10 Straight 10
.
.
.
.
NO profit, Lost all the money
Not only this, I have seen few people put in a few hundreds @ Video Poker machines and they all went down in a few minutes.
Compared to Video poker I felt that the Table Black Jack was better, I would some times earn atleast 120% of the money that I have put in.
Were they bad machines? Were the cards not favorable to me on Video Poker? Was it because of a less bank roll? What is a minimum bank roll needed?
I could not figure out what was going wrong,
Any suggestions on the playing? Thanks
This was addressed back in Jan 1999 ... a long time ago.
Please see this link and article by Jazbo:
jazbo(dot)com / videopoker / curves.html (please make adjust for dot & spaces ... thnx)
It’s known as video poker probability distributions so if you have time, you can do it for 10 hands for JoB and Ducks and see it for yourself and gain wisdom.
how did you miss the queen? And to think, you actually play video poker with real money. #-EV. 🤣Quote: prozemaHe held Jack King Off suit. Get it? Funny...
Quote: drrockThere was a lady (the Queen) present as well. Does that make it better ... or worse?
For comedy purposes, I was seeking a hold as far away from optimal as possible. The worst imaginable would be holding an entire dead hand of five cards. In this case although the mixed suit JQK does have some remote win potential, its EV is only about 20% of a bet.
We don't know which two cards were thrown away, but you could hold something like a lone 3 and have better EV than the JQK.
