Aristocrat Bartops?
Not sure where I snagged this image from but I think this is them. Vpfree2 says they put some in at the Downtown Boyd casinos. Obviously I have not seen them yet or I wouldn't be asking about them. Opinions welcome.
Quote: JohnzimboI read elsewhere there are a couple at MSS and also at Fremont
I have a morning appointment at sister casino Suncoast tomorrow and will see if they have any.
Quote: JohnzimboI read elsewhere there are a couple at MSS and also at Fremont
Was just at MSS last week but didn't see any.. but didnt' look at every single bartop.
Quote: WizardI have a morning appointment at sister casino Suncoast tomorrow and will see if they have any.
Thank you for all replies. And looking forward to Wizard's "trip report".
I also wonder why IGT has dominated so much. Of course, they have a great product which speaks for itself. And I know there have been others, but not even close to IGT. Pretty sure Bally's has had bartops in years past. And there was some other brand in the Village Pubs, can't remember name. But why has Aristocrat waited until now to jump in the game at this level? Were there some patent issues I am unaware of? Anyway, the more the merrier, as long as they understand and satisfy the players.
thank you
Quote: rsactuaryWas just at MSS last week but didn't see any.. but didnt' look at every single bartop.
Vpfree2 lists MSS "Boar's Head" Bar. It's a recent listing. Recent, as in yesterday.
Patents. now expired for multi-hand I think. Only problem is you won't see UX on these. Maybe another vulture slot or VP on them.Quote: bobbartopThank you for all replies. And looking forward to Wizard's "trip report".
I also wonder why IGT has dominated so much. Of course, they have a great product which speaks for itself. And I know there have been others, but not even close to IGT. Pretty sure Bally's has had bartops in years past. And there was some other brand in the Village Pubs, can't remember name. But why has Aristocrat waited until now to jump in the game at this level? Were there some patent issues I am unaware of? Anyway, the more the merrier, as long as they understand and satisfy the players.
thank you
Quote: bobbartopThank you for all replies. And looking forward to Wizard's "trip report".
I also wonder why IGT has dominated so much. Of course, they have a great product which speaks for itself. And I know there have been others, but not even close to IGT. Pretty sure Bally's has had bartops in years past. And there was some other brand in the Village Pubs, can't remember name. But why has Aristocrat waited until now to jump in the game at this level? Were there some patent issues I am unaware of? Anyway, the more the merrier, as long as they understand and satisfy the players.
thank you
The Village Pubs had CEI machines prior to the Bally machines.
Quote: bobbartopThank you for all replies. And looking forward to Wizard's "trip report".
I also wonder why IGT has dominated so much. Of course, they have a great product which speaks for itself. And I know there have been others, but not even close to IGT. Pretty sure Bally's has had bartops in years past. And there was some other brand in the Village Pubs, can't remember name. But why has Aristocrat waited until now to jump in the game at this level? Were there some patent issues I am unaware of? Anyway, the more the merrier, as long as they understand and satisfy the players.
thank you
The Village Pubs had CEI machines prior to the Bally machines.
Quote: DRichThe Village Pubs had CEI machines prior to the Bally machines.
AHA! That's it. I was never going to remember that. Thanks, DRich.
Quote: onenickelmiraclePatents. now expired for multi-hand I think. Only problem is you won't see UX on these. Maybe another vulture slot or VP on them.
I don't know how it's working for present-day APs but for some reason I can picture in my mind some bartenders developing a bad attitude towards vultures. thanks, OneNickel.
Quote: GaryJKoehlerhttps://www.cdcgamingreports.com/aristocrat-joins-the-bar-top-game-market-rolling-out-video-product-with-buffalo-slots/
Thanks for this excellent Howard Stutz article. There's a lot of room for sharp-thinking developers and marketers. Don't drop the ball! lol
And it's so true about the Buffalo things. I've only looked at them, but they're everywhere. People are nuts about them. Of course, I'm nuts about progressive video poker with good meters and "fair" paytables. NO 7-5 DDB! (talking to YOU, Golden Entertainment, and others)
Quote: bobbartopAHA! That's it. I was never going to remember that. Thanks, DRich.
I will never forget those CEI machines. I probably put 10's of millions of dollars through their Deuces Plus games.
Quote: DRichI will never forget those CEI machines. I probably put 10's of millions of dollars through their Deuces Plus games.
AHA! So you're the guy. I guess that lets poor ol' Bob Dancer off the hook. lol
I saved your images to my hard drive. Those are great. Thanks.
Quote: WizardI checked every bar top at the Suncoast, but didn't find any.
Thanks for the effort. I got a feeling there's going to be plenty around soon so you'll see them soon.
Quote: bobbartopThanks for the effort. I got a feeling there's going to be plenty around soon so you'll see them soon.
Eventually. But only because of Buffalo.
They suck for playing VP. The corners of the cards are way too small, imo.
Here's a couple of pics from Red Rock in September. Decent Buffalo hit.
Buffalo keno rules if anyone wants to bother computing it.
My only decent keno hit. Lol
Tough to read poker cards with bad sportsbook paytable.
People are up in arms at MSS though as JoB was only set to 9/5 instead of 9/6...lol
But it's only 2 of 16 of the machines, afaik! Also drink meters installed. But calm down people, jeez!
Quote: tringlomaneTough to read poker cards with bad sportsbook paytable.
People are up in arms at MSS though as JoB was only set to 9/5 instead of 9/6...lol
But it's only 2 of 16 of the machines, afaik! Also drink meters installed. But calm down people, jeez!
Took me a while to figure out why it says "Jacks or Better" below a BP paytable
The 25-cent spot keno had a range of return from 90.19% to 90.85%. I added the pay table as "pay table 8" in my spot keno page.
Here was the video poker at the $1 denom:
9-5 Jacks
8-5 Bonus Poker
8-6 Bonus Poker Deluxe
9-6 Double Double Bonus (what they call Aces Kicker)
9-6 Triple Double Bonus (what they call Super Aces Kicker)
25-15-8 Deuces (98.15%)
7-4-4 Bonus Deuces (98.69%)
6-5-3 Joker Poker Kings (98.41%)
There were a couple of keno games I never saw before, which I will soon write about separately.
I've never played a Buffalo slot machine—my customer loyalty is with IGT. But if they appear in enough bartops, I'll probably try one out!
Quote: Wizard
25-15-8 Deuces (98.15%)
7-4-4 Bonus Deuces (98.69%)
6-5-3 Joker Poker Kings (98.41%)
I can't say that I've ever seen these last three paytables. And I tried to fill in the blanks, I couldn't do it for the Deuces and the Joker games. I didn't spend all night trying to figure it out, but right now I'm stumped.
Quote: smoothgrhI just got this email advertisement from Atlantis Casino in Reno. Aristocrat is muscling in on IGT's home turf!!!
I've never played a Buffalo slot machine—my customer loyalty is with IGT. But if they appear in enough bartops, I'll probably try one out!
Interesting. Also interesting are the downgrades and machine removals Atlantis has made fairly recently in video poker. I thought Atlantis was pretty much king of the good video poker paytables, so some of the downgrades surprised me. Check out "comments" under Atlantis at vpfree2.
Regarding Buffalo, I have never played one either. But I can HEAR them all over the casinos I have been in.
I saw a Buffalo on Mickey's twitter page, figured it must be "playable". Shortly after that, the same game popped up in a nearby casino. Right now I can't remember the name.
Quote: bobbartopI can't say that I've ever seen these last three paytables. And I tried to fill in the blanks, I couldn't do it for the Deuces and the Joker games. I didn't spend all night trying to figure it out, but right now I'm stumped.
Yeah, these paytables i have never seen before now either.
Deuces is "Illinois/LV Airport" except the SF pays 8 for 1.
Bonus Deuces is full pay except the SF pays 7 for 1.
Joker Kings is full pay except full house pays 6 for 1.
Quote: bobbartopQuote: smoothgrhI just got this email advertisement from Atlantis Casino in Reno. Aristocrat is muscling in on IGT's home turf!!!
I've never played a Buffalo slot machine—my customer loyalty is with IGT. But if they appear in enough bartops, I'll probably try one out!
Interesting. Also interesting are the downgrades and machine removals Atlantis has made fairly recently in video poker. I thought Atlantis was pretty much king of the good video poker paytables, so some of the downgrades surprised me. Check out "comments" under Atlantis at vpfree2.
Regarding Buffalo, I have never played one either. But I can HEAR them all over the casinos I have been in.
I saw a Buffalo on Mickey's twitter page, figured it must be "playable". Shortly after that, the same game popped up in a nearby casino. Right now I can't remember the name.
Buffalo Diamond has accumulating free games.
Quote: Wizard
Here was the video poker at the $1 denom:
9-5 Jacks
8-5 Bonus Poker
8-6 Bonus Poker Deluxe
9-6 Double Double Bonus (what they call Aces Kicker)
9-6 Triple Double Bonus (what they call Super Aces Kicker)
25-15-8 Deuces (98.15%)
7-4-4 Bonus Deuces (98.69%)
6-5-3 Joker Poker Kings (98.41%)
MSS is the same at quarters except it's 8/6 DDB and 7/5 Bonus.
Does IGT have a patent on the name Double Double Bonus? Why call it Aces Kicker? Sounds dumb to me.
Quote: tringlomaneYeah, these paytables i have never seen before now either.
Deuces is "Illinois/LV Airport" except the SF pays 8 for 1.
Bonus Deuces is full pay except the SF pays 7 for 1.
Joker Kings is full pay except full house pays 6 for 1.
I don't see it. Wizard said the Deuces was 98.15, and the Joker 98.41. Just a mistake?
Quote: tringlomaneMSS is the same at quarters except it's 8/6 DDB and 7/5 Bonus.
Does IGT have a patent on the name Double Double Bonus? Why call it Aces Kicker? Sounds dumb to me.
8/6 DDB? Is that correct?
Seems like a reasonable guess your suggestion that IGT might have DDB patented.
I want the patent on "Buffalo". Is "Bison" taken?
Quote: bobbartopI don't see it. Wizard said the Deuces was 98.15, and the Joker 98.41. Just a mistake?
Deuces might be a typo, it's 98.45%. 98.15% is the payback for 9/6 Triple Double Bonus. Sorry, I mean Super Aces Kicker. Haha
And oops I was wrong about Joker. Quints and Wild Royal are also shorted.
It's 800/150/80/20/6/5/3/2/1/1 = 98.41%.
And yes it's 8/6 DDB (97.89%), not 9/5 DDB (97.87%).
Here's a link to some of the games at Boars Head bar.
https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/boyd-installing-drink-tracking-at-bar-tops.166882/page-2#post-1917834
Quote: tringlomaneDeuces might be a typo, it's 98.45%. 98.15% is the payback for 9/6 Triple Double Bonus. Sorry, I mean Super Aces Kicker. Haha
And oops I was wrong about Joker. Quints and Wild Royal are also shorted.
It's 800/150/80/20/6/5/3/2/1/1 = 98.41%.
And yes it's 8/6 DDB (97.89%), not 9/5 DDB (97.87%).
Here's a link to some of the games at Boars Head bar.
https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/boyd-installing-drink-tracking-at-bar-tops.166882/page-2#post-1917834
Thanks for the info. I enjoyed the link, I'll have to start looking at that often. But I swear, I'm so sick of Boyd, what is their freaking problem? Their new and improved slot club sucks. Who makes these kinds of decisions?
Quote: tringlomane
Does IGT have a patent on the name Double Double Bonus? Why call it Aces Kicker? Sounds dumb to me.
Probably a trademark or copyright, not patent-able.
Interesting, I have never consciously thought about such a thing.Quote: smoothgrhmy customer loyalty is with IGT.
I know I purposely targeted older IGT video slots during certain promotions, but I've certainly never had any loyalty to any one gaming company. This could make an interesting thread on its own.
Quote: AxelWolfInteresting, I have never consciously thought about such a thing.
I know I purposely targeted older IGT video slots during certain promotions, but I've certainly never had any loyalty to any one gaming company. This could make an interesting thread on its own.
It's mainly the look, feel, and sounds of the games that attract me to the older IGT games, including Game King machines. I tried playing Bally Game Maker, but it just didn't "feel" right.
One thing I avoid in slots is when they have the "poker card" symbols: J, Q, K, A. I think it makes a slot game unappealing, and IGT had only a few of those kinds.
Regarding, Double Double Bonus—it might be a game from Action Gaming, which partners with IGT. Action Gaming is the company that developed the Triple Play, Five Play, … Hundred Play family of games. I couldn't find any history about DDB in my exhaustive 2 minutes of searching.
Quote: DRichProbably a trademark or copyright, not patent-able.
My bad, that's what I meant to say. If it is though, some companies have used it. With permission i assume.
Quote: smoothgrh
Regarding, Double Double Bonus—it might be a game from Action Gaming, which partners with IGT. Action Gaming is the company that developed the Triple Play, Five Play, … Hundred Play family of games. I couldn't find any history about DDB in my exhaustive 2 minutes of searching.
My gut feeling, DDB has been around "forever", and Action Gaming has not.
Quote: Wizard9-6 Double Double Bonus (what they call Aces Kicker)
9-6 Triple Double Bonus (what they call Super Aces Kicker)
For what it is worth, they also have a Trademark on Triple Double Aces Kicker:
https://trademark.trademarkia.com/triple-double-aces-kicker-87501464.html
I wonder if that gave way to the Super Aces Kicker along the way?
Quote: DRichProbably a trademark or copyright, not patent-able.
If I remember correctly, IGT has a trademark on the double double bonus name. We ran into the same issue when we wanted to use the same pay table for one of our games, but we couldn't name it double double bonus. We could have used the DDB for the game, but we chose the "Twin Twin Bonus" instead just to be safe.
IGT
https://trademark.trademarkia.com/double-double-bonus-poker-76157843.html
Quote: tringlomaneDoes IGT have a patent on the name Double Double Bonus? Why call it Aces Kicker? Sounds dumb to me.
I asked a lawyer about this at G2E. He said that some names have trademark issues and others don't.
This one would have been a good challenge to analyze too.
I did see the 8-6 Aces Kicker (double double bonus) that we talked about earlier in this thread. All in all, I need to give it more play than I did, I felt uncomfortable, and it seemed to play slower than my IGT machine, even though it has a speed setting. My current opinion is that I would not play them if there is equal opportunity close by on an IGT machine. Of course, if I were to find a tech mistake with good EV, I guess I could "force" myself.
I did briefly look at the keno paytables. The 6-spot was 3-4-65-1800, or .936999, which ain't bad, for keno, better than what a lot of casinos have. Although, I find 95% returns out here.
Quote: bobbartopMy current opinion is that I would not play them if there is equal opportunity close by on an IGT machine. Of course, if I were to find a tech mistake with good EV, I guess I could "force" myself.
I think that is why nobody will replace IGT in the bartop space for many years. People are creatures of habit and everybody is comfortable with the IGT bartop machine. My company has about 1000 IGT bartop machines and they will not be replaced anytime soon.
Quote: bobbartopI can't say that I've ever seen these last three paytables. And I tried to fill in the blanks, I couldn't do it for the Deuces and the Joker games. I didn't spend all night trying to figure it out, but right now I'm stumped.
It's a weird variant that you can find here:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/joker-poker/kings-or-better/
The more common game is 98.44 Jokers (Kings) and is actually one of the most frequent games I've seen. Even in casinos in which the video poker is generally bad, you can sometimes find that one. On the one above, FH pays 6 instead of 7 and the top three hands also pay a reduced amount in favor of better returning quads. The game mentioned above actually shares a paytable with 99.98% Jokers Kings with the exception being the reduced Full House.
I also remember a number of years ago Scientific Games introduced a new cabinet with the traditional video poker games on it and they had one or two very new, never seen before games. I thought that alone gave them a good chance to gain interest from the players, but as quickly as it was installed, it was taken out at Red Rock. I'm not sure why it didn't have success because I thought it had potential.
Quote: DRichI think that is why nobody will replace IGT in the bartop space for many years. People are creatures of habit and everybody is comfortable with the IGT bartop machine. My company has about 1000 IGT bartop machines and they will not be replaced anytime soon.
I didn't see this post, that's why I didn't acknowledge. I started off knowing nothing about you, but it seems every time I read you, (almost every time), you appear more and more interesting. Merry Christmas.
