Dyvan13
Dyvan13
Joined: May 27, 2016
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July 8th, 2018 at 11:30:58 PM permalink
So I've been beating a certain casino group consistently for ~2 years now on video poker. I'm concerned about being put on a "DNI" list and having my precious free play and promotions yanked from me. I'm primarily a single-line quarter player, so I rarely get W2-G's. Occasionally, I'll play dollar demon when I want to rack up some coin-in quickly, but its safe to say I get >5 of them a year (My taxes suck, but that's a different discussion)

Any advice on what games I can play for "cover" to avoid the DNI list? I would prefer playing table games like Craps/Blackjack/Ultimate Texas Hold 'em. If table games won't suffice, I can play 98% payback VP or slot machines. Any idea of how much coin-in I would need in relative to my average coin-in that I regularly play?


Last year, I lost a nice chunk of my winnings at the Craps table (I found out the hard way that DI doesn't work) so that may have helped buy me some cover as well.


Thank you.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 9th, 2018 at 12:18:16 AM permalink
Quote: Dyvan13

So I've been beating a certain casino group consistently for ~2 years now on video poker. I'm concerned about being put on a "DNI" list and having my precious free play and promotions yanked from me. I'm primarily a single-line quarter player, so I rarely get W2-G's. Occasionally, I'll play dollar demon when I want to rack up some coin-in quickly, but its safe to say I get >5 of them a year (My taxes suck, but that's a different discussion)

Any advice on what games I can play for "cover" to avoid the DNI list? I would prefer playing table games like Craps/Blackjack/Ultimate Texas Hold 'em. If table games won't suffice, I can play 98% payback VP or slot machines. Any idea of how much coin-in I would need in relative to my average coin-in that I regularly play?


Last year, I lost a nice chunk of my winnings at the Craps table (I found out the hard way that DI doesn't work) so that may have helped buy me some cover as well.


Thank you.



Are you actually beating them on vp?

Or are you getting great return combined with comps thst turns the situation plus ev?

If you are consistently beating them without comps anyway who cares

If you need the comps to keep the situation +ev then just milk it until its over... then get someone elses players card and repeat

You can also try DI again. That was good cover
Nathan
Nathan
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July 9th, 2018 at 4:19:30 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Are you actually beating them on vp?

Or are you getting great return combined with comps thst turns the situation plus ev?

If you are consistently beating them without comps anyway who cares

If you need the comps to keep the situation +ev then just milk it until its over... then get someone elses players card and repeat

You can also try DI again. That was good cover



Darkoz, I think your advice to the OP to get someone else's Player's Club card and repeat his playing is a bad idea considering he thinks the Casinos are getting resentful of him. I'm not sure if "Resentful," is the right word for what I am trying to say. I might be thinking of wary, suspicious,. jaded, etc. The last thing he should want is for the Casino to get upset that he is using a card that isn't his own. Granted, he would most likely have the permission of the person whose name is on the card bit still that could open up a new can of snakes. Yes, I said snakes rather than worms to put more emphasis.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
darkoz
darkoz
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Thanks for this post from:
Jmarch79
July 9th, 2018 at 5:06:45 AM permalink
Quote: Nathan

Darkoz, I think your advice to the OP to get someone else's Player's Club card and repeat his playing is a bad idea considering he thinks the Casinos are getting resentful of him. I'm not sure if "Resentful," is the right word for what I am trying to say. I might be thinking of wary, suspicious,. jaded, etc. The last thing he should want is for the Casino to get upset that he is using a card that isn't his own. Granted, he would most likely have the permission of the person whose name is on the card bit still that could open up a new can of snakes. Yes, I said snakes rather than worms to put more emphasis.



Winning in casinos is going to make them resentful. That cant be avoided

Look at how casinos treat card counters with a very small edge

I have seen casino crackdowns on $25 bus bonuses

Its war baby. Either make your moves or go get a regular 9-5
Nathan
Nathan
Joined: Sep 2, 2016
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July 9th, 2018 at 6:21:50 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Winning in casinos is going to make them resentful. That cant be avoided

Look at how casinos treat card counters with a very small edge

I have seen casino crackdowns on $25 bus bonuses

Its war baby. Either make your moves or go get a regular 9-5



To be fair, I was talking more about the playing with someone else's Player's Club card being a big no no in Casinos, especially if you might be in dangerous of being on their hit list(Hit is supposed to be spelled with an S in front of it, ;))
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
MrV
MrV
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July 9th, 2018 at 6:47:07 AM permalink
I've read that it is popular for some slot AP's to use a bunch of different player's cards in order to accumulate free play.

A couple questions:

If you are using another's card and a jackpot ensue's triggering a hand pay, how does the player produce ID in the card-holder's name?

Earned free play presumably would be sent to the address listed by the card holder, so how would the AP get to access it? I suspect he'd need the card holder's P.I.N. for this?

Does the advent of facial recognition software serve as any sort of deterrent?
"What, me worry?"
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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July 9th, 2018 at 6:51:43 AM permalink
Quote: Dyvan13

So I've been beating a certain casino group consistently for ~2 years now on video poker. I'm concerned about being put on a "DNI" list and having my precious free play and promotions yanked from me. I'm primarily a single-line quarter player, so I rarely get W2-G's. Occasionally, I'll play dollar demon when I want to rack up some coin-in quickly, but its safe to say I get >5 of them a year (My taxes suck, but that's a different discussion)

Any advice on what games I can play for "cover" to avoid the DNI list? I would prefer playing table games like Craps/Blackjack/Ultimate Texas Hold 'em. If table games won't suffice, I can play 98% payback VP or slot machines. Any idea of how much coin-in I would need in relative to my average coin-in that I regularly play?


Last year, I lost a nice chunk of my winnings at the Craps table (I found out the hard way that DI doesn't work) so that may have helped buy me some cover as well.


Thank you.



Of craps/bj/uth, uth gives you by far the best return on your ratings/comps, in my experience. For example, Harrah LV (as of 2014, when I asked and got an answer) rates you at 4x your ante bet + amount on Trips. That's right in line with the ~4.1x ante bet Mike shows under optimal play.

I think craps is the worst rating of those 3, and bj is slightly less advantageous than uth but better than craps, just because bj has more decisions per hour in nearly all cases. Carnival games in general get you better ratings than either, in part because of the higher HE, but tempered by the lower HPH. But the variance also plays a factor in their comp algorithms, and carnival variance is comparatively huge.

PGP, which you didn't mention, is the worst of the carnival games for ratings, and perhaps worse than either bj or craps. I was told it was the worst game in the house for a ratings boost, because of the low HE, and only about 25-30 HPH. I'm not sure that's accurate everywhere. And it was for Fortune PGP, was told that 20 years ago, so maybe not true for EZ PGP or other variations.

Better than all of those is slots, of course. And Big 6 wheel and junk like that. But that's for comp calculation.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MrV
MrV
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July 9th, 2018 at 6:58:02 AM permalink
I would assume the comp rating for baccarat / mini-baccarat is not particularly good either?
"What, me worry?"
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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July 9th, 2018 at 7:23:53 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

I've read that it is popular for some slot AP's to use a bunch of different player's cards in order to accumulate free play.

A couple questions:

If you are using another's card and a jackpot ensue's triggering a hand pay, how does the player produce ID in the card-holder's name?

Earned free play presumably would be sent to the address listed by the card holder, so how would the AP get to access it? I suspect he'd need the card holder's P.I.N. for this?

Does the advent of facial recognition software serve as any sort of deterrent?



Answer 1) pull the persons card out and call over the attendent. Hand over your own id. Cameras show it was you playing. Card that was in machine is inconsequential. Most casinos dont check but the few that do you just say you sat down and didnt realize someone left their card in. No different than if you legit sat down at a slot unrated, won a jackpot and suddenly noticed someone left their card in the machine

Answer 2) correct. NEVER use a strangers players card. It is only legal if the person gives permisssion. They supply the card the pin and with my people they hand over all their mail (or send photos)

Answer 3) simple answer: No.

Long answer: very few casinos take photos of the cardholders. Never seen a casino snapshot EVERYONE when downloading fp and comparing it to... ? Yesterday's photos of everyone? Facial recognition for fp downloading simply is a non-issue at this time
Romes
Romes
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July 9th, 2018 at 8:34:27 AM permalink
I think you need to be mindful of EV... if you're mainly a quarter single line player, you really can't be beating them for a lot. I'm "ASSUMING" you are an AP and have an edge with what you're doing and not just running hot? VP has wild variance, so it's very plausible for a VP player to be positive for years if they have a few big hits, especially if you're playing games other than JoB.

I would not give your EV back to them unless you have a really, really, good reason. For example, say you make $10k per casino per year. Say you "give back" $2k/year in EV by playing these other games for "cover." Well, pending the number of casinos (sounds like a few, so let's say 3?) you could be giving away another years worth of EV by the time you get the DNI anyways.

What I'm trying to say is, in the end your record will speak for itself. What you really need to do is get more cards to play on, pick FP up on, etc. That way you're spreading your action around and keeping yourself below the radar without exposing any loss to your EV. If you just stick to one card, the only cover that will protect you in the long run is enough of a cost that you are no longer an AP (i.e. the cover is worthless). Make the $, don't give it back.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.

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