BobDancer
BobDancer
Joined: Jun 22, 2013
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June 11th, 2016 at 11:16:07 PM permalink
Vulturing is definitely positive EV for many players. Not for me.

I am a well-known successful player. It’s way too late for me to choose to go the “low profile” route now.

My assumption going into a casino is everything I do is being monitored --- whether by employees or eye-in-the-sky. Clearly that can’t be true 100% of the time, but if I act as if it IS true that often, I never get caught doing things the casino thinks is a “shot.”

Things like vulturing Ultimate X.

Things like card-pulling.

Things like sitting down at machines with abandoned credits and collecting them --- with or without playing some first.

The reason these things are considered “shots” is because the casino has no chance to win my money today. If I’m gambling with an edge, on any given day the casino has a great shot at winning against me. I like my chances in the long run --- but at least it appears to be more of a fair game. A casino might be able to live with this --- especially if I write articles about things that happen to me at various casinos.


Avoiding these things is not done from a space of moral superiority. In the 22 years I’ve been playing “professionally,” (using that term loosely for the first few years), I’ve done similar things and more. But when I was playing for quarters, I was not somebody who frightened the casinos at all. At that time I had nothing to lose.

It’s done from a space of “at least some managers in every casino question the casino’s decision to let me play.” It’s foolhardy to give them any ammunition to restrict me. So I don’t.

Now there are relatively few casinos where I’m welcome to play and have decent games higher than $1. Losing even one of this is to be avoided if I can.

While I’m one of the most recognizable video poker pros, my situation is not unique. There are a number of successful players who would be wise to at least consider whether the temporary EV of doing these things outweighs the loss of EV if you’re 86’d (multiplied by the chances of your being caught and “punished.”)
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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June 11th, 2016 at 11:48:03 PM permalink
What are the ramifications of being caught vulturing machines? Do the casinos consider abandoned credits as theirs?
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
Joined: Dec 28, 2014
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June 11th, 2016 at 11:57:51 PM permalink
If I had the same notoriety as you, I wouldn't do anything that's not considered normal play by any stretch of the imagination.

But I think vulturing and card pulling are strategies, where playing forgotten credits is bordline theft.
RogerKint
RogerKint
Joined: Dec 5, 2011
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June 12th, 2016 at 12:37:21 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

What are the ramifications of being caught vulturing machines? Do the casinos consider abandoned credits as theirs?



Haven't heard of any casual vultures facing any serious consequences. In my experience, the guys who camp out for hours behind banks of UX and Spielos are often approached by security and not seen on premises again.
100% risk of ruin
Canyonero
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
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June 12th, 2016 at 5:08:03 AM permalink
Quote: BobDancer



Things like card-pulling.



I was under the impression card pulling was a thing of the past. That modern machines would credit the outcome of a spin / hand to a players account even if the card is pulled while the spin / hand is still in progress.

Is there a way to tell on which machines card pulling still makes sense?
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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June 12th, 2016 at 9:45:54 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

I was under the impression card pulling was a thing of the past. That modern machines would credit the outcome of a spin / hand to a players account even if the card is pulled while the spin / hand is still in progress.

Is there a way to tell on which machines card pulling still makes sense?



I will not go into any details but there are still situations where card pulling is beneficial but not for the reason you are assuming.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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June 12th, 2016 at 9:28:04 PM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

Haven't heard of any casual vultures facing any serious consequences. In my experience, the guys who camp out for hours behind banks of UX and Spielos are often approached by security and not seen on premises again.


whats a Spielos?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
BobDancer
BobDancer
Joined: Jun 22, 2013
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June 12th, 2016 at 11:23:18 PM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

Haven't heard of any casual vultures facing any serious consequences. In my experience, the guys who camp out for hours behind banks of UX and Spielos are often approached by security and not seen on premises again.



Some guys can vulture quietly --- and some can't. When there's a dispute, the casino will usually side with the "regular player" and against the "cherry picker."
darkoz
darkoz 
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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June 12th, 2016 at 11:47:18 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

whats a Spielos?



Spielos is a slot manufacturer like Bally's. Roger is saying people camping out for hours near the Spielos games.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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June 13th, 2016 at 5:44:47 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Spielos is a slot manufacturer like Bally's. Roger is saying people camping out for hours near the Spielos games.


what games do they make?
and Why are they camping out?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)

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