Was I ever +EV with free slot play?

I'm done w/vp (except vulturing) at my local casino.

their best machine was $1 9/6 JoB.
they lowered it to 9/5. :(

daily one time $10free slot play (fsp) offer for $1000 coin-in at VP.
9/6 = 99.5% return.
$1000 x .005 = $5
so with the free slot play, I was theoretically +$5.

but I used that $ to earn the next $10 fsp offer.
and the $10 fsp doesn't count towards the $1000 coin-in.

so if I keep chasing the next $10 fsp, am I +ev each time?
or am I only +ev on the final time I play vp at that casino? ie: just play the $10 fsp and no more


edited to say one $10 fsp per day.
(Thx Z for extending the edit period to 12hrs)

If you're playing 9/6 JoB with 99.54... EL = (1000)*(-.0046) = -$4.60. Your FSP is $10, but played at a 99.54% machine, thus your ER on your FSP = (10)*(.9954) = $9.95

This is if you did this one time and stopped. Clearly you should be able to see that when you go to do this again, it's like starting from zero. As you denoted the FSP must be played SEPARATE from your coin in to earn more FSP, but that doesn't matter you can play the exact same game on your FSP.

Thus, you should just play for hours and hours earning $300-$400 in FSP, then cash out, get your FSP, run it through, and cash it out.

Another way to look at it is you're playing a positive VP machine. Your EV was -$4.60, but with this play your EV comes out to be $9.95 - $4.60 = $5.35. So if you put $1000 in action through total, and you expect to earn $5.35, then you have a player edge of 100.537%. With JoB being the lowest variance of most VP's, I'd plug away at this all day. If you play 800 hands per hour, 8 hours per day, 5 days a week, that makes 40 hours * 800 hph = 32,000 hands, at $5 per hand for Total Action = $160,000. This should net you $1,600 in FSP, but in the bigger picture of playing with the 100.537% advantage this means your ER = (160,000)*(1.00537) = $859.20... or about $21.48/hour.

There's always better opportunities in a casino, but for $21/hour, with hopefully no/low heat on one of the "lower" variance VP games, not to mention any comps that come with your active play, it certainly seems worth it to me. Can you get the same deal at a higher denom, like $5 (for $25/pull)? Then multiply everything times 5 and you've got yourself a gig =).

...For 9/5... (98.5% HE)
EL = (1000)*(-.015) = -$15
ER from FP = (10)*(.985) = $9.85

NET on play = -$15 + $9.85 = -$5.15

This still does put the HE around 99.485%, for any other point multiplier/comps/other promotions you might be able to do with it...

P.S. If they do have any 9/6 JoB (or anything that's over 99% return at all) I surely hope you'd message me the name of this place. After all, I've given you the info you need so I should hope you'd let me know where it's at in return =D.

ahh.. so doing the $10fsp offer over and over again is +ev,
thx!

and lol @ $21/hr theoretical. I wish I made that much off this.
I edited my OP to say that you can only earn one $10 fsp per day.

as for comp rate, it's 0.1% coin-in for vp. :(
so no go for 9/5 JoB, thus why I'm done w/normal vp at this casino.

Really? No-go for 9/5? I think I'd be almost as excited about "only" losing $3 as I am about "winning" $5 per $1000 in coin in. If that $8 swing really changes how you spend an hour, you probably should have spent the hour on other things (UltX, must-hits, etc.) anyway - they were worth more than $8/hr anyway.

Quote: rdw4potus

Really? No-go for 9/5? I think I'd be almost as excited about "only" losing $3 as I am about "winning" $5 per $1000 in coin in. If that $8 swing really changes how you spend an hour, you probably should have spent the hour on other things (UltX, must-hits, etc.) anyway - they were worth more than $8/hr anyway.

I mainly play poker but I'll spend a few min on any +ev game for the fun of it. (includes UX + must hits although I have NEVER gotten to play a +EV must hit, yet.)

don't think UX is $8/hr at my casino since the # of vultures have increased at my casino.
but I still go look thru them because there aren't that many of them and it doesn't take that much time.

Quote: 100xOdds

ahh.. so doing the $10fsp offer over and over again is +ev,
thx!

and lol @ $21/hr theoretical. I wish I made that much off this.
I edited my OP to say that you can only earn one $10 fsp per day.

as for comp rate, it's 0.1% coin-in for vp. :(
so no go for 9/5 JoB, thus why I'm done w/normal vp at this casino.

That sucks you can only earn 1 per day... Do they even have higher donom "anything" that's over 99%?

Who cares...a half percent (0.5%) edge sucks...especially relative to the variance of the game (VP).

Just because you have an edge, doesn't mean you should play.

Quote: Romes

That sucks you can only earn 1 per day... Do they even have higher donom "anything" that's over 99%?

as far as I can tell, 9/5 JoB is now the best machine in the place. :(

they used to have $10 9/6 ddb (99%) but they got rid of that already before this round of vp downgrades.
I thought about playing the $10 9/6 ddb for the $10 fsp because of the high variance. hitting one of the special quads would have been great.

but math said 99.5% JoB is a better play.

Quote: RS

Who cares...a half percent (0.5%) edge sucks...especially relative to the variance of the game (VP).

Just because you have an edge, doesn't mean you should play.

I'm not doing it for the $/hr.
I just enjoy +ev opportunities if it doesn't take much time/effort.

200hands of 9/6 JoB = 15min.
looking thru all the UX games at my casino is like 10min.

for me, slightly +ev fun > $/hr since gambling is not my main source of income

Quote: 100xOdds

I'm not doing it for the $/hr.
I just enjoy +ev opportunities if it doesn't take much time/effort.

200hands of 9/6 JoB = 15min.
looking thru all the UX games at my casino is like 10min.

for me, slightly +ev fun > $/hr since gambling is not my main source of income

I think what your doing is great I like your aditude. You know it's not some super great play. Your not looking to get rich (just lucky). You kill some time have some fun and a small advantage, if you can afford it and enjoy it that's certainly a plus in my book.

Quote: rdw4potus

Really? No-go for 9/5? I think I'd be almost as excited about "only" losing $3 as I am about "winning" $5 per $1000 in coin in.

its all about the math (to entice me to play a game I normally don't play),
+$5 is +ev.
-$3 is -ev.

as the Wiz says:
it's not whether you win or lose but rather was it a good bet


Edited my post (in paren)

I think it's all about having fun.

If it was all about the math, sell covered calls.

So, you should be getting the intrinsic return of the game (99.5% of coin-in), plus the $10/day FSP promo, plus the comp rate on the coin in (0.1%?), plus mailers.

Figure out what you're getting for mailers based on that coin-in and recalculate. "Obviously", it's not going to be amazing if it's ADT based, but a handful of places use another calculation method for marketing purposes.