Poll

2 votes (7.69%)
16 votes (61.53%)
4 votes (15.38%)
3 votes (11.53%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (3.84%)

26 members have voted

Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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September 10th, 2015 at 8:15:30 AM permalink
The site looks quite archaic. I think I'll sit this one out with the "NO US... WE CAN KEEP YOUR MONEY" rules.

Cool find though Wiz. Intriguing games indeed. I wonder why they call it "American Poker" when no Americans can play and it's a French deck as you pointed out...?

EDIT - Anyone else try to play in IE? I made a dummy account just to mess around and check it out, but it's telling me I need to install "Unity Web Player" even in I.E.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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September 10th, 2015 at 8:41:26 AM permalink
UPDATE....

So I'm playing "for fun..." and I noticed something quite interesting. Say you get dealt A-A-10-6-2 rainbow... If you want to hold the AA and draw, you have to PAY again. Essentially this is a single draw game, where you have to pay your specified amount to draw on your hand.

So if you get a redraw on your first 5 cards... When you hit "Start" you're starting a new game and can then hold your next 5 cards and re-draw again as well basically.

Another Example: You get dealt 4-4-8-8-K. You keep the 4-4-8-8 and have to pay 1 unit to draw. Say you miss the full house... Well now you've bet 2 units and won 2 units... Push.

Me thinking that's gonna drop this 205% EV down pretty quick. I've also noticed some other weird pays where sometimes I got 3-1 for 2 pair and stuff... Either buggy or more rules we don't quite understand?

ESSENTIALLY, this is a NO DRAW game. You pay 1 unit and you get 5 cards. If you want to "collect" on your first 5 cards you can. If you want to keep any and draw, you pay another unit. If you get dealt a garbage hand, you pay 1 unit and start over (no draw on the garbage hand).

p.s. Wiz, you can up the number of lines by clicking on the BET, LINES section. You can play 1-5 lines and bet up to 30 per line.

...I've been using a slightly intuitive/modified strategy and burned through 3 buy ins of $100 in about 25 minutes (betting $1 per line). About 25% single line and 75% 3-play. The strategy must be quite different as if you're dealt nothing but a high card, why would you pay the full amount to draw to it and not just pay the full amount to "start over?"

Not that it matters in such a small sampling size, but I just went 1 for 45 drawing on a pair and failing to hit trips.

If you don't have enough to "draw" then it lowers your bet per line... I.E. Bet max 5 lines 20 per line ($100 bet)... get dealt A-A-A-9-2... If you only have $50 left, then you can draw on your AAA for $50, but it reduces your bet per line to $10 and that's what your payouts are based on instead of your original $100 (20/line) bet. Yes, I checked and you can't do it the other way to bet $1 per line then draw on $20/line and try to get paid on that. =)
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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September 10th, 2015 at 11:15:04 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I saw and did the option to enable Npapi. However, the games still didn't work in Chrome. Thus, my suggestion to use IE instead.

What's IE ;-)
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizard
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Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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September 10th, 2015 at 3:26:11 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

EDIT - Anyone else try to play in IE? I made a dummy account just to mess around and check it out, but it's telling me I need to install "Unity Web Player" even in I.E.



I installed that when I was trying to play in Chrome. Maybe that is why I could play in IE.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 10th, 2015 at 3:31:32 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

UPDATE....

So I'm playing "for fun..." and I noticed something quite interesting. Say you get dealt A-A-10-6-2 rainbow... If you want to hold the AA and draw, you have to PAY again. Essentially this is a single draw game, where you have to pay your specified amount to draw on your hand.



Good catch! Thank you. I never noticed that as I wasn't paying any attention to my balance. Looks like I owe the casino an apology for questioning either their competence or integrity.

Let me go back to my program for this game and recalculate it under the rule where you have to pay for a draw.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DoubleOrNothing
DoubleOrNothing
Joined: Jan 2, 2012
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September 10th, 2015 at 4:57:18 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I never noticed that as I wasn't paying any attention to my balance.

And, the world is right again!
I can't believe what I believe.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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September 10th, 2015 at 5:11:17 PM permalink
I'm surprised AxelWolf has Google Chrome....I'd expect him to have something like Netscape...
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 10th, 2015 at 6:32:05 PM permalink
Okay, here is my updated table based on the rule of having to bet again for the draw. This shows the total returned assuming the player had to pay two units up front and got a unit back for declining the draw.

Total weight = Bet Pays Combinations Probability Return
Royal flush (must have ace) 1 601 171,230,400 0.000007 0.004189
Five of a kind 1 1001 111,299,760 0.000005 0.004535
Royal flush (no ace) 1 201 34,246,080 0.000001 0.000280
Straight flush 1 201 1,541,073,600 0.000063 0.012608
Four of a kind 1 51 - 0.000000 0.000000
Full house 1 16 56,095,079,040 0.002283 0.036531
Flush 1 11 50,204,753,280 0.002043 0.022478
Straight 1 6 153,799,145,280 0.006260 0.037560
Three of a kind 1 4 - 0.000000 0.000000
Two pair 1 3 - 0.000000 0.000000
Jacks or better 1 2 - 0.000000 0.000000
Nothing 1 1 9,498,047,549,760 0.386589 0.386589
Royal flush (must have ace) 2 600 2,178,876,480 0.000089 0.053211
Five of a kind 2 1000 2,120,496,840 0.000086 0.086308
Royal flush (no ace) 2 200 415,402,680 0.000017 0.003382
Straight flush 2 200 14,665,162,380 0.000597 0.119380
Four of a kind 2 50 198,759,747,780 0.008090 0.404495
Full house 2 15 306,010,213,740 0.012455 0.186828
Flush 2 10 298,478,169,660 0.012149 0.121486
Straight 2 5 156,985,624,620 0.006390 0.031948
Three of a kind 2 3 2,845,545,339,780 0.115819 0.347457
Two pair 2 2 2,293,146,385,200 0.093335 0.186671
Jacks or better 2 1 2,827,089,771,660 0.115068 0.115068
Nothing 2 0 5,863,465,953,180 0.238654 0.000000
Total 24,568,865,521,200 1.000000 2.161003


So, a two-unit bet gets back 2.16 units.

The average bet is 1.60275 units. The net profit per hand it 0.161 units. The element of risk is -10.05%.

Before you go out and bet this, keep in mind there may still be other rules I misunderstanding, especially regarding wild royals.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
JB
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JB
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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September 10th, 2015 at 9:49:37 PM permalink
Okay, I couldn't resist analyzing this too. I handled the extra bet by using the regular paytable when holding all five cards, and the same paytable with each payoff reduced by one when holding 0 to 4 cards. Initially I calculated a return of 99.95%, but that result was due to a major oversight in my code. After fixing the oversight and recalculating, my results now agree with Wizard's, even though they are expressed differently due to how we handled the paytable:

Bet Outcome Prize Combinations Probability Frequency Variance Return
1 Five of a Kind 1,000 111,299,760 0.000005 220,745.00 4.519601 0.004530
1 Royal Flush 600 171,230,400 0.000007 143,484.25 2.499286 0.004182
1 Straight Flush 200 1,575,319,680 0.000064 15,596.11 2.535051 0.012824
1 Four of a Kind 50 0 0.000000 Never 0.000000 0.000000
1 Full House 15 56,095,079,040 0.002283 437.99 0.437269 0.034248
1 Flush 10 50,204,753,280 0.002043 489.37 0.159649 0.020434
1 Straight 5 153,799,145,280 0.006260 159.75 0.092258 0.031300
1 Three of a Kind 3 0 0.000000 Never 0.000000 0.000000
1 Two Pair 2 0 0.000000 Never 0.000000 0.000000
1 Jacks or Better 1 0 0.000000 Never 0.000000 0.000000
1 All Other 0 9,498,047,549,760 0.386589 2.59 0.521093 0.000000
2 Five of a Kind 999 2,120,496,840 0.000086 11,586.37 85.935671 0.086222
2 Royal Flush 599 2,178,876,480 0.000089 11,275.93 31.696842 0.053122
2 Straight Flush 199 15,080,565,060 0.000614 1,629.17 24.024608 0.122148
2 Four of a Kind 49 198,759,747,780 0.008090 123.61 18.514308 0.396405
2 Full House 14 306,010,213,740 0.012455 80.29 2.053114 0.174373
2 Flush 9 298,478,169,660 0.012149 82.31 0.746532 0.109338
2 Straight 4 156,985,624,620 0.006390 156.50 0.051500 0.025558
2 Three of a Kind 2 2,845,545,339,780 0.115819 8.63 0.081527 0.231638
2 Two Pair 1 2,293,146,385,200 0.093335 10.71 0.002419 0.093335
2 Jacks or Better 0 2,827,089,771,660 0.115068 8.69 0.155103 0.000000
2 All Other -1 5,863,465,953,180 0.238654 4.19 1.114499 -0.238654
Totals 24,568,865,521,200 1.000000 175.140331 1.161003


Optimal strategy gives the player a 16.1% advantage.
MaxPen
MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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September 10th, 2015 at 10:46:29 PM permalink
Unicorns are everywhere. This casino doesn't have a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Just another conman behind a curtain of protection from US law.
No thanks, I'd rather buy an Illinois lottery ticket.

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