Six new SUPER TIMES PAY @Caesars Windsor
Was watching the guy program the percentages tonight on all the $1 games....all of them I watched were either 96 or 97% pay tables per the selections he was entering
Long live caesars great video poker pay tables
again on a 50cent dollar machine
Will look at the $1 progressive next time I go in there people always playing it when it gets up to $4300-4500 even with the really bad tables on all the games offered 6/5 on those is not out of the question thats for sure
Quote: coilmanWas watching the guy program the percentages tonight on all the $1 games....all of them I watched were either 96 or 97% pay tables per the selections he was entering
Can you go into more detail as to what you saw and what he was entering? In other words, was it like a list of paytables and each one had a % next to it? Or what'd the format look like when he was programming it?
Quote: RSQuote: coilmanWas watching the guy program the percentages tonight on all the $1 games....all of them I watched were either 96 or 97% pay tables per the selections he was entering
Can you go into more detail as to what you saw and what he was entering? In other words, was it like a list of paytables and each one had a % next to it? Or what'd the format look like when he was programming it?
Each game has a list of % paybacks shown to them. They click on the appropriate box and that pay table is what's loaded for that type of game.
Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: RSQuote: coilmanWas watching the guy program the percentages tonight on all the $1 games....all of them I watched were either 96 or 97% pay tables per the selections he was entering
Can you go into more detail as to what you saw and what he was entering? In other words, was it like a list of paytables and each one had a % next to it? Or what'd the format look like when he was programming it?
Each game has a list of % paybacks shown to them. They click on the appropriate box and that pay table is what's loaded for that type of game.
He was picking which game he wanted to check/ set the odds on. Let's say Deuces Wild Three lines.... up would pop a list of all the different PAYBACKS on the bottom left side of the screen.... he would check his clipboard and select the payback which is displayed in order from highest to lowest that matched his list.... each and every one he selected was either the 96 or 97% . I was surprised at just how many different game were listed ... seeing how its a 3,5 or 10 play machine each one required its own setting.
Machines are located outside the HIGH LIMIT area right next to the new electronic roulette that was installed in the past week also
Quote: coilmanJust before I was watching this I noticed the techies and a SUIT testing out another poker machine that was already IN SERVICE.....well it was till after they had their computer and two screens attached to the inside guts pulling up the data....not sure why but the machine was put OUT OF SERVICE and a card placed on it
again on a 50cent dollar machine
Will look at the $1 progressive next time I go in there people always playing it when it gets up to $4300-4500 even with the really bad tables on all the games offered 6/5 on those is not out of the question thats for sure
Game Kings can offer 6/5 DDB, one of my local casinos does at the bar with a progressive that barely gets above $1050 at quarters (shameful). But if the machine is a super times pay machine or an ultimate x machine, the machine is not allowed to offer 6/5 DDB; IGT didn't allow that to be a programmable option on those machines. IGTis actually protecting the player from casinos' greed!
They take it even a step further with the newer "Hot Roll Poker". The worst paytables they can offer are all above 96% with some games above 97%. 8/5 DDB (96.79%) and 8/5 JoB (97.3%) are the worst available for that game. The worst game they can offer overall is 9/6/4 Double Bonus at 96.38%.
Quote: coilmanQuote: IbeatyouracesQuote: RSQuote: coilmanWas watching the guy program the percentages tonight on all the $1 games....all of them I watched were either 96 or 97% pay tables per the selections he was entering
Can you go into more detail as to what you saw and what he was entering? In other words, was it like a list of paytables and each one had a % next to it? Or what'd the format look like when he was programming it?
Each game has a list of % paybacks shown to them. They click on the appropriate box and that pay table is what's loaded for that type of game.
He was picking which game he wanted to check/ set the odds on. Let's say Deuces Wild Three lines.... up would pop a list of all the different PAYBACKS on the bottom left side of the screen.... he would check his clipboard and select the payback which is displayed in order from highest to lowest that matched his list.... each and every one he selected was either the 96 or 97% . I was surprised at just how many different game were listed ... seeing how its a 3,5 or 10 play machine each one required its own setting.
Machines are located outside the HIGH LIMIT area right next to the new electronic roulette that was installed in the past week also
I watched them lower all the paybacks a Motorcity last year.
Quote: champ724...you can play like a complete idiot and win.
But most likely, you'll lose faster.
Quote: champ724so how can anyone say video poker has skill besides the obvious plays of holding winners or drawing to winning hands? on youtube the lady made a video trying to sell a book on how to beat video poker and went as far as saying the rng is a real deck of cards and the probability of winning a hand is really the true odds like a real deck of cards. everything goes by the payback % you can play like a complete idiot and win.
Link to you tube video? Either you misunderstood what she said or she's lying. If you intentionally play to lose for example (never draw on losing hands and throw away winning hands), VP pays back less than 3% and will literally suck your money away.
Surprised how long to get new machines up and making money
Quote: champ724https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFwtmnsYoLs she says at around 1:50 mark the probability of a card coming is 1:52 and then says slots doesn't have the same probability. she doesn't understand everything evolves around the payback %.
Payback percentage is only based on playing the dealt hand out by holding the highest EV cards.
Quote: champ724payback % determines everything about how the machine pays if the machine is overpaying then it has to take in money if it has taken in too much then it has to payout. the cards and hands are just on the screen for people to rack their brain and think they can outsmart a computer. the reality is the machine will pay out when its suppose to and not hit when its suppose to.
None of this is true.
Quote: champ724why is it laws in states that payback % is 75-85%? the payback for every $100 a machine take in has to pay out at least the minimum payback% or the casino gets fined. if a machine is advertised that it pays out 98% and it pays out below that and the state checks the meters the casino gets fined. whatever you think payback % means by playing hands on vp is wrong.
there ya go it states the vegas law and what payback % is
Quote: champ724http://www.vegastripping.com/playersclub/slots.php
there ya go it states the vegas law and what payback % is
Go play 9/6 JoB and hold all five cards no matter what you get dealt. I guarantee you won't get 99.54% payback.
Quote: IbeatyouracesGo play 9/6 JoB and hold all five cards no matter what you get dealt. I guarantee you won't get 99.54% payback.
Thats what happened to the Revel. Too many people threw away dealt royals and the casino was fined out of existence.
Quote: champ724why is it laws in states that payback % is 75-85%? the payback for every $100 a machine take in has to pay out at least the minimum payback% or the casino gets fined. if a machine is advertised that it pays out 98% and it pays out below that and the state checks the meters the casino gets fined. whatever you think payback % means by playing hands on vp is wrong.
State law also says they can assume that the player will act in their best interest... meaning hold the cards that will return the most for them.
Just to be honest.. you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and embarrassing yourself.
Quote: RogerKint
sounds about right.
Quote: rsactuaryState law also says they can assume that the player will act in their best interest... meaning hold the cards that will return the most for them.
Just to be honest.. you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and embarrassing yourself.
post a state law about players acting in their best interest when playing.
Quote: champ724http://www.vegastripping.com/playersclub/slots.php
there ya go it states the vegas law and what payback % is
But its not the whole law and misses the major differences between vp and slots.
Here is the entire Nevada gaming regulations in a PDF file:
http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2957
If you look at page 171, you'll find two important regulations:
14.040 Minimum standards for gaming devices. All gaming devices submitted for approval:
1. Must theoretically pay out a mathematically demonstrable percentage of all amounts
wagered, which must not be less than 75 percent for each wager available for play on the device.
(a) Gaming devices that may be affected by player skill must meet this standard when using a
method of play that will provide the greatest return to the player over a period of continuous play.
Reading subsection (a), this points out that games of skill only need to make the 75% minimum payback if the game is played flawlessly. So someone that intentionally holds garbage to assuredly lose is more than welcome to and the casino won't be punished for returning less than 75%.
AND
2. Must use a random selection process to determine the game outcome of each play of a
game. The random selection process must meet 95 percent confidence limits using a standard chi-
squared test for goodness of fit.
(a) Each possible permutation or combination of game elements which produce winning or
losing game outcomes must be available for random selection at the initiation of each play.
(b) For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical
probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the
mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other
gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in a position in any game
outcome must be constant.
So subsection b says a video poker machine must behave like a live 52 card deck in terms of probability. So if you get dealt four to a royal and hold those four cards, you'll have a 1 in 47 probability of making a royal flush. If you decide to just hold three of them, then there will no chance for you to make a royal at all and you will greatly hurt your return.
If you somehow still don't believe me at this point, find a penny machine, play one penny and hold all 5 cards of non winning hands and see what actually happens.
Quote: champ724post a state law about players acting in their best interest when playing.
See above. And fyi, most state laws have this provision.
Quote: champ724and the money you lose will go into the pool the same if you make all the right plays and lose. you can't guarantee your going to get 99.54% of your money playing perfect. if the machines not goin to hit it'll give you some hits but it'll dwindle you down to nothing over time.
Quote: champ724and the money you lose will go into the pool the same if you make all the right plays and lose. you can't guarantee your going to get 99.54% of your money playing perfect. if the machines not goin to hit it'll give you some hits but it'll dwindle you down to nothing over time.
Ok so I'll run a sim with 1 billion hands and I bet I will be very close to 99.54% on 9/6 jacks. How much do you want to bet?
Quote: champ724and the money you lose will go into the pool the same if you make all the right plays and lose. you can't guarantee your going to get 99.54% of your money playing perfect. if the machines not goin to hit it'll give you some hits but it'll dwindle you down to nothing over time.
Getting 99.54% back will naturally leave you broke. That's why it's -EV.
Quote: champ724so how can anyone say video poker has skill besides the obvious plays of holding winners or drawing to winning hands? on youtube the lady made a video trying to sell a book on how to beat video poker and went as far as saying the rng is a real deck of cards and the probability of winning a hand is really the true odds like a real deck of cards. everything goes by the payback % you can play like a complete idiot and win.
Quote: tringlomaneLink to you tube video? Either you misunderstood what she said or she's lying. If you intentionally play to lose for example (never draw on losing hands and throw away winning hands), VP pays back less than 3% and will literally suck your money away.
I wonder if there's some confusion in this person's postings of Class 2 vs. Class 3 games.
Quote: champ724class 3 has a live deck meaning if you throw the jack of spades away you won't get that card again. thats the rng it still has to take in the % it is set to take in. vegas vp % is high 95-96%
Wrong again. The % on vp only represents playing whatever that game may be by playing each and every hand optimally. If you don't play optimally, it won't return the stated %. And 95-96% is horrible.
Quote: IbeatyouracesWrong again. The % on vp only represents playing whatever that game may be by playing each and every hand optimally. If you don't play optimally, it won't return the stated %. And 95-96% is horrible.
I agree with this post.
Until recently I always used it on VP, but the machines won't let me anymore. Only slots. :(
Quote: ams288I wonder if I'll be able to use my weekly Freeplay that Caesars Winsdor gives me on these.
Until recently I always used it on VP, but the machines won't let me anymore. Only slots. :(
I have had zero problems using my freeplay money on the VP machines there
That extra $976 made the JOB 7-5 pay table a 100% payback percentage JUST made it to 100%....yes 7 -5 on JOB at $1 insane
Quote: coilman... That extra $976 made the JOB 7-5 pay table a 100% payback percentage JUST made it to 100%....yes 7 -5 on JOB at $1 insane
Are you sure about that? I thought even on $1, 9/6 JoB, it isn't 100% until is at around $5000
Quote: champ724class 3 has a live deck meaning if you throw the jack of spades away you won't get that card again. thats the rng it still has to take in the % it is set to take in. vegas vp % is high 95-96%
I don't know where you're getting your information but you're badly misinformed. In Nevada, a VP machine simply deals cards randomly according to single-deck probabilities. The return of the game is entirely dependent on the player's strategy, nothing else. This is no different than live blackjack (or video blackjack) -- you can screw up playing blackjack and the game doesn't correct your payback later on.
If you always held all five cards in 9/6 jacks or better you would have about a 33.7% payback. Not 99.54%. And the machine wouldn't go into "loose payback mode" later to compensate. Some machines in the UK work that way, but not in the US. In other words, the RNG is not "set to take in" any amount of money. The RNG is set to shuffle a virtual deck of cards and deal them according to normal rules. The probabilities of those cards (which is fixed by regulation) and the paytable (which is designed by the manufacturer) is what determines the payback percentage. Not some adaptive algorithm.
95-96% is probably about right for the average GameKing return. Not when a skilled player is playing, but overall. I've spoken to casino operators who target comps based on 1.5% to 2% suboptimal, so if you're already starting with a 97.3% game (8/5 JoB), that's in the ballpark.Quote: IbeatyouracesWrong again. The % on vp only represents playing whatever that game may be by playing each and every hand optimally. If you don't play optimally, it won't return the stated %. And 95-96% is horrible.
Quote: IbeatyouracesAre you sure about that? I thought even on $1, 9/6 JoB, it isn't 100% until is at around $5000
yes you are correct at $4975 the 9-6 hits 100.0005 RETURN
I had done the 7-5 return on the analyze calculator and hit return changing the jackpot for the royal to $4976 and didnt realize it reset the other numbers back to 9-6
boy those paytables are really insane
I have no clue what he's taking about but the RF on a 7/5 JOB (not counting meter movement) needs to be $10520 give or take a buck or two to be at 100%.Quote: IbeatyouracesAre you sure about that? I thought even on $1, 9/6 JoB, it isn't 100% until is at around $5000
EDIT> Sorry coilman I didn't see your 2nd post explaining the mistake.
There's a few short cuts/tricks you can make when looking at VP. IE 4000 coins is = to about 2%
Every time you knock off 1 from the Full house or flush you - about 1% extra.
I'll let you do the rest. Like what happens when you add bonus poker 4 of a kinds.
What happens when 2 pair pays 1.
Whats the flush need to pay before you change strategy to include 3 flushes.
When and why inside straights become part of the strategy.
How jokers really start to add value to straight flushes.
This stuff really helps on the fly. Assuming you don't have time to calculate something. Perhaps you come across a really good +EV situation.
Eventually you can get fairly close to a strategy without ever looking at one for that particular game.
It' helps to spot stuff you know is either good or no good, especially when scouting. It also helps you see something just isn't right.
Almost always sitting empty all six....
Hey Ibeatyouraces at what point does the exchange rate come into play for your gambling ? I think Caesars was offering like 23% exchange on the dollar on the weekend ..should be 35% later this fall if the price of oil keeps dropping
REGARDS COILMAN
(old computer crapped out the hard drive couldn't remember the password and signed up with a hotmail account which is no good here anymore)
and all 6 of those new machines sat empty as I watched the baseball games on the tvs...but the folks came and went at the progressive which had $4014 or so for a royal and th JOB $1 was 7/5
