Deuces Wild
I had 2 Js Qs Ks As.
I probably should have taken the time and looked it up, but I'm playing Thursday Morning QB and wanted to know.
Thanks.
Not sure how much you play however if you play a lot and you don't know that hold, I have a feeling you are making many mistakes and often. Commit the strategy to memory, there are tricks you can use for the 2 and 3 card Royal and wild royal holds....Good luckQuote: dave2118I don't think I played this correctly, but do you discard the wild if you're drawing 4 to a Royal?
I had 2 Js Qs Ks As.
I probably should have taken the time and looked it up, but I'm playing Thursday Morning QB and wanted to know.
Thanks.
Quote: tringlomaneIf the game awards the standard 4000 credit royal, them you hold the wild royal. 4 to a natural royal is worth a little over 95 credits on average. Wild royals are worth either 100 or 125 depending on the paytable.
Indeed, you should not discard the wild :) a wild royal flush has a higher expected return than 4 to a royal flush. Discarding the deuce will lower your expected return a lot!
a trick is you never discard a deuce :) if you have a hand with a deuce, then with that hand you won't make a natural royal flush :)
good luck!
Okay, I lied. I'd rather get the wild royal, but ya know what I mean!
What if you're due? ;)Quote: RSThose are the types of hands I hate. I'd rather get 4 to a royal and go for a real royal than be dealt a wild royal.
Okay, I lied. I'd rather get the wild royal, but ya know what I mean!
Quote: dave2118I don't think I played this correctly, but do you discard the wild if you're drawing 4 to a Royal?
I had 2 Js Qs Ks As.
I probably should have taken the time and looked it up, but I'm playing Thursday Morning QB and wanted to know.
Thanks.
THIS POST HAS BEEN CORRECTED, PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING POST, THE METHODOLOGY AS WELL AS RF + WRF NUMBERS REMAIN THE SAME
Here is the full breakdown:
Wild Royal = 100
The Draw
Natural Royal: (1/47 * 4000) = 85.1063829787
Wild Royal (Again): (3/47 * 100) = 6.3829787234
Straight (Non-Royal): (3/47 * 2) = 0.12765957446
Flush (Non-Royal): (7/47 * 2) = 0.29787234042
85.1063829787 + 6.3829787234 + 0.12765957446 + 0.29787234042 = 91.914893617
If this were a Progressive, you'd be eating 100-91.914893617 = 8.085106383 units of EV by making this play. In other words, the Natural Royal would have to be worth: 85.1063829787+8.085106383 = 93.1914893617
That means the Natural Royal would have to stand at 93.1914893617/(1/47) = 4380 coins to be an even play compared to holding the Wild Royal.
Flush Pays Three
Everything else is the same, except:
(7/47 * 3) = 0.44680851063
91.914893617-0.29787234042+0.44680851063 = 92.0638297872
100-92.0638297872= 7.9361702128
85.1063829787+7.9361702128=93.0425531915
Which means a Progressive Natural would have to be at 93.0425531915/(1/47) = 4373 Coins to be an even play compared to the WRF.
(3/47 * 10) + (7/47 * 10) = 2.12765957447
85.1063829787 + 6.3829787234 + 2.12765957447 = 93.6170212766
100-93.6170212766 = 6.3829787234
85.1063829787 + 6.3829787234 = 91.4893617021
91.4893617021/(1/47) = 4300
For 10/10, the play becomes even at 4300 coins.
(3/47 * 10) + (7/47 * 15) = 2.87234042553
93.6170212766-2.12765957447+2.87234042553= 94.3617021277
100-94.3617021277=5.6382978723
5.6382978723+85.1063829787= 90.744680851
90.744680851/(1/47) = 4265
For 10/15, the play becomes even at 4265 coins.
Quote: Mission146Please ignore the above post, the straight/flush should either be (10/10) or (10/15), I forgot to multiply those by the five credits...lol
(3/47 * 10) + (7/47 * 10) = 2.12765957447
85.1063829787 + 6.3829787234 + 2.12765957447 = 93.6170212766
100-93.6170212766 = 6.3829787234
85.1063829787 + 6.3829787234 = 91.4893617021
91.4893617021/(1/47) = 4300
For 10/10, the play becomes even at 4300 coins.
(3/47 * 10) + (7/47 * 15) = 2.87234042553
93.6170212766-2.12765957447+2.87234042553= 94.3617021277
100-94.3617021277=5.6382978723
5.6382978723+85.1063829787= 90.744680851
90.744680851/(1/47) = 4265
For 10/15, the play becomes even at 4265 coins.
Thanks for the calculations, if you are willing to work the numbers....how would this look if the hand was: 2s,10s,Js,Qs,Ks
I realize this could be a pain (adding in the 9s-->Ks straight flush possibility and the varying pay tables), so please ignore if it is unrealistic.
Everything is the same, except, you have 1/47 * whatever the SF pays on your paytable. This changes Flushes from 7/47 to 6/47 and straights go from 3/47 to 6/47, if you would like to try, I'll check your work tomorrow.
Quote: AxelWolfNot sure how much you play however if you play a lot and you don't know that hold, I have a feeling you are making many mistakes and often. Commit the strategy to memory, there are tricks you can use for the 2 and 3 card Royal and wild royal holds....Good luck
I rarely play, but yeah, I'm sure I'm not playing optimal strategy. Sometimes, I just need something to do while I'm drinking a beer.
Thanks everyone! Hopefully I have these situations more often.
I still need to know what the SF pays on your paytable. SF pays can vary pretty wildly from one table to the other on DW.
Quote: Mission146Keeneone,
I still need to know what the SF pays on your paytable. SF pays can vary pretty wildly from one table to the other on DW.
Last time I saw the hand a friend was playing DW44 (maybe at Green Valley bar top progressive?) that payed 9 (45) for the straight flush. Thanks.
Quote: KeeneoneLast time I saw the hand a friend was playing DW44 (maybe at Green Valley bar top progressive?) that payed 9 (45) for the straight flush. Thanks.
Okay, so I believe the Flush would pay three-for-one, so we'll just start all over again with this.
Natural Royal: (1/47 * 4000) = 85.1063829787
Wild Royal (Again): (3/47 * 100) = 6.3829787234
Straight Flush: (1/47 * 45) = 0.95744680851
Straight (No Royal/SF): (6/47 * 10) = 1.27659574468
Flush (No Royal): (6/47 * 15) = 1.91489361702
1.91489361702+1.27659574468+0.95744680851+6.3829787234+85.1063829787= 95.6382978723
If you're surprised that the difference is less than 1.3 (95.6382978723-94.3617021277=1.2765957446) coins, don't be. For one thing, exactly half of the difference in value is coming from the Straight, because there are now twice as many ways to do it. Secondly, other than the additional straight card, the value of ONE of the Flush cards is multilplied by three as the Nine now pays 45 coins as opposed to 15 coins. ((1/47 * 45)-(1/47 * 15)) = 0.63829787234, which is the additional coins provided by that one card.
To continue: You would need 100-95.6382978723= 4.3617021277 in additional value is needed on the Natural Royal, so:
85.1063829787+4.3617021277= 89.4680851064
89.4680851064/(1/47) = 4,205...So, the Royal must be at 4,205 coins for it to be an equal hold to keeping the WRF, more coins and the NRF draw is superior.
Quote: Mission146<snip>
89.4680851064/(1/47) = 4,205...So, the Royal must be at 4,205 coins for it to be an equal hold to keeping the WRF, more coins and the NRF draw is superior.
Thank you for taking the time to provide the math, I appreciate it. Your contributions on this site are valuable.
On the hand in question (2s,10s,Js,Qs,Ks)....I told my friend to go for it....(progressive was at ~$1100)....the hand ended as a flush.
But it looks like the correct play based on your calculations. Thanks again.
Quote: KeeneoneThank you for taking the time to provide the math, I appreciate it. Your contributions on this site are valuable.
On the hand in question (2s,10s,Js,Qs,Ks)....I told my friend to go for it....(progressive was at ~$1100)....the hand ended as a flush.
But it looks like the correct play based on your calculations. Thanks again.
Assuming the wild royal was 100 credits instead of 125, yes. In a recent trip report on Vegas Message Board though, a poster played this machine at GVR on a bartop. The wild royal paid 125. If that's the case, you need the Royal to be about $1340 to want to break the wild royal with one deuce at the quarter level.
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11950&d=1410461721 (link requires sign-in on VMB to view: mod)
Quote: GreasyjohnYou never discard a 2. Never.
Generally, yes, but playing the best penny deuces game in St. Louis you can...lol I yet have had the opportunity though in my sporadic play of it.
It's a deuces game with a 5600 credit royal. Why 5600? Beats the hell out of me. It's a common theme among 50/100 play machines with Super Times Pay, but only for Deuces Wild. Harrah's LV has the same 5600 royal on them for pennies with a crappier base paytable.
3/47 break even (draw a W again)
1/47 Jackpot (suited Ace)
1/47 Str-Fl (suited 9)
6/47 Flush (TY miplet)
6/47 Straight (off suit 9 or Ace)
30/47 NADA
Even this looks bad. (NADA rules and 47:1 to improve)
Quote: 98ClubsThe only exception I could ever think of is W+suited TJQK when the Wild Royal pays 100 and the Str-FL pays 10. I think even that got debunked above.
3/47 break even (draw a W again)
1/47 Jackpot (suited Ace)
1/47 Str-Fl (suited 9)
6/47 Straight (off suit 9 or Ace)
36/47 NADA
Even this looks bad. (NADA rules and 47:1 to improve)
Don't forget the flushes. :+)
miplet easily beats me sense i was double checking things by hand.
<--- very slow
That being said, we do sometimes make mistakes. Playing fast, at over 1k hands per hour can do that. I did that today. Dealt 289 suited on fpdw and played too fast, holding only the 2. Up popped the other 3 2's for 1k credits and a $250 win. I cussed myself the sec I hit draw, and lol'd at my error paying off.
