Vulturing 'Ultimate X'

I think 8/6 is the best UX JoB made.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I think 8/6 is the best UX JoB made.

So, only a 1075% edge? :-)

Quote: rdw4potus

So, only a 1075% edge? :-)

Unfortunately :-(

I just hate giving a few percentages back!!

It's only 983.466% advantage. Meh.

Quote: RS

It's only 983.466% advantage. Meh.

Show Spoiler

:)

Are you kidding me.."AP is a myth" Said by someone who thinks vp can be beaten by playing wrong and upping denominations while losing.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: RS

It's only 983.466% advantage. Meh.

Show Spoiler

:)

Are you kidding me.."AP is a myth" Said by someone who thinks vp can be beaten by playing wrong and upping denominations while losing.

Wait what?

Quote: RS

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: RS

It's only 983.466% advantage. Meh.

Show Spoiler

:)

Are you kidding me.."AP is a myth" Said by someone who thinks vp can be beaten by playing wrong and upping denominations while losing.

Wait what?

'Twas a joke. You should know who I'm talking about.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: RS

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Quote: RS

It's only 983.466% advantage. Meh.

Show Spoiler

:)

Are you kidding me.."AP is a myth" Said by someone who thinks vp can be beaten by playing wrong and upping denominations while losing.

Wait what?

'Twas a joke. You should know who I'm talking about.

OIC.

I thought you really thought I was the dirty Rob Singer.

Quote: RS

...OIC.

I thought you really thought I was the dirty Rob Singer.

Show Spoiler

Almost took it as an insult too!

PFFT!! You have to give me more credibility than that!! I know better. ;-)

Quote: BadBeet

That is a once in a lifetime find...

Good for you!

It is?

I agree with IBeatYourAces, Vulturing UX is horrible and you should continue to never do it.

You also seem to be forgetting winning hands on Ten Play, but that still don't win enough to leave enough for another Max Bet. Those are a lot of your single 2x, single 3x or a couple of 2x or 3x multiplier situations.

Nominee for best post of the year

Quote: BadBeet

That is a once in a lifetime find...

Good for you!

I've found it quite a few times, personally. It also seems that the frequency exists on the higher denominations. I once vultured a 10 play $1 DDB because the guy rolled a straight into a full house on the machine, got his handpay and walked. It is exceptionally common for someone to cease their play after a hand pay, and in many cases where they are required to play the game off once more, will often do a 1x1 bet and leave me with 9 multipliers to chase.

Quote: chaunceyb3

Hoodstar: I assume you play $2/$5 at the AC casino owned by Boyd Gaming. I would leave the Ultimate X (or any advantage play) alone at that property and realize your win rate at poker.

Management will readily deactivate player cards, take away your ability to earn comp dollars (even in poker), and downgrade you from Black Label to Red Label for vulturing or any kind of machine advantage play (also of course for card counting, edge sorting).

Leave the Ultimate X/Rock Around the Clock/Must Hits/etc. hustling to the regulars such as "Syracuse" Chris T. (who has $2.7 million in lifetime tournament cashes and now hustles full-time) and former taxi driver C. Reslock, etc.

Exoter175: An "average" winning player might beat that particular $2/$5 ($100-$500 buy-in) game for 5bb/hour, or $25. Talented players can win upwards of 10bb/hour or even 15bb/hour with excellent game selection in deepstack games (example: Midnight Cowboy on 2+2). From the PokerJournals and Poker Session Loggers I've seen, a winning player will have 60-75% sessions in the black.

So what you're saying is that its actually more comparable to a "good" hustle location, than the guy claimed? With the only difference being the 99.99% likelihood that the vulture will expect wins every day.

Quote: ukaserex

On this "vulturing" business (had to retype that 3 times, silly auto-correct!), I can fully comprehend potential consequences for playing found credits left in a vp machine that you happen to discover - either by searching or by randomness. That's money in a machine.

If I'm playing UX and for whatever reason leave a 7x multiplier (or any multiplier) on the machine - who cares? As a player - sure, I might need to run to the ATM to get a little more cash to use that multiplier. But, I would think I would leave a drink, or a tilted chair, or my players card in the machine while I ran to the ATM would be sufficient sign that I intended to return.

If no such sign exists, how is anyone to know that the machine is reserved? And if no one can play on it until that person returns, it might be left there for a week until payday.

My guess is, I have missed some pertinent detail, or have completely missed the mark on what is meant by the term "vulturing". Could someone kindly elaborate?

Simply flipping through every game and every denom of Ultimate X looking for a "next hand multiplier" and then playing the game at full hands x 5 per hand, and then repeating that process over and over and over. The trick is finding and getting to the "next hand multiplier" before anyone else, and not doing it so obviously that the regular patrons pick up on the act and start to play them off before they leave.

Quote: 100xOdds

Like this?


:(

*cries*

Imagine my reaction being dealt 4 to a royal on 3 play dollar, with 12x's on every hand, then imagine my frustration when I hit neither a straight nor a flush.

Quote: Exoter175

It is exceptionally common for someone to cease their play after a hand pay, and in many cases where they are required to play the game off once more, will often do a 1x1 bet and leave me with 9 multipliers to chase.

Please explain this.

Pretty self explanatory

Quote: RS

Please explain this.

I'm going to assume you're being serious.

So, lets say a guy hits a royal flush on his machine, the machine is disabled and he waits for the slot attendant to come "key it" so that it can be played again, while they run away and count up his money to be paid and do all the necessary documentation and forms.

He might be satisfied with his "big win" and decide to cease his play. In some areas, they'll ask you to play one more hand to remove the "win" from the screen (for silly reasons) and in some cases, the person will play it off at 1 hand, and 1 credit bet per hand. This only activates 1/10 hands, and the other 9 are left with a "next hand multiplier" still. In some areas, they won't even require you to play it one more time, and a person might just get up on their own. I've seen this happen quite a few times, and I've made quite a bit of money on it. I was once watching a guy play quarter DDB 10 play, he was dealt 4 4's with a 2. It was a very large handpay. When the attendants came up to him, he hopped over to the machine next to him, they keyed it, and said they'd return with his information. He started playing the "other" machine. I snuck over to the machine, played it off right next to him, got dealt 3 of a kind, made a few bucks, and left while the attendants paid him, nobody the wiser.

Quote: Exoter175

It was a very large handpay. When the attendants came up to him, he hopped over to the machine next to him, they keyed it, and said they'd return with his information. He started playing the "other" machine. I snuck over to the machine, played it off right next to him, got dealt 3 of a kind, made a few bucks, and left while the attendants paid him, nobody the wiser.

Are you sure about this order of events? They reset the machine and then left to get the paperwork? That's...unusual.

I've had it - Depends on jurisdiction

Quote: rdw4potus

Are you sure about this order of events? They reset the machine and then left to get the paperwork? That's...unusual.

It isn't the normal but it's not unheard of, it depends on the location.

Quote: rdw4potus

Are you sure about this order of events? They reset the machine and then left to get the paperwork? That's...unusual.

Yes, I'm absolutely positive, though I left a lot of rather irrelevant steps out.

Basically it goes like this.

1. Jackpot hit
2. They arrived, ask you for your drivers license and/or if you're on file with them this year for a jackpot.
3. If you aren't on file, they'll ask you for your social.
4. Sometimes they'll ask you to sign a small copy of a "jackpot" sheet that says you were the one that hit it (highly depends on your region if this is done)
5. They'll insert their attendants card, punch in the jackpot value, key the machine on and its free to play.
6. Sometimes they'll ask you to spin the machine off (but usually this is done primarily on slots, rather than VP).
7. 15-30 minutes later they'll come by with your tax form you need to sign, as well as other information you might need to sign if you aren't on file, and then they'll hand you your money.

This is really, really common in some areas, but also is very dependent on the value of the jackpot.

I've hit jackpots like one more recently where a security guard was called to my location and had to be present during the whole ordeal, while another security guard accompanied the slot attendant as the jackpot was over $5,000 and their law or their internal rules and regulations made it so that all of this must happen first. I'm sure it was "for my own protection" from other patrons.

Quote: AxelWolf

It isn't the normal but it's not unheard of, it depends on the location.

Consistently making $50 an hour in 2/5 NL would be fairly hard. Im not saying it's impossible but I'm skeptical. Perhaps they have some good promotions on top of normal play.
I agree if someone has an avrage of $50 an hr on 2/5 they should move up.

Quote: Exoter175

This only activates 1/10 hands, and the other 9 are left with a "next hand multiplier" still.

I'll give you one more chance to amend your story.

Quote: RS

I'll give you one more chance to amend your story.

Basically on some, not all UX machines that have multipliers, playing just one line one credit will leave the other multipliers on the screen untouched.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Basically on some, not all UX machines that have multipliers, playing just one line one credit will leave the other multipliers on the screen untouched.

Is this for real? Of all the machines I've poked at, I have never experienced that.

Quote: RS

Is this for real? Of all the machines I've poked at, I have never experienced that.

I think he is right. I found a couple this weekend with 1 credit last bet with multiplers on other lines. The "Next Hand 2x" text also appeared darker than they normally do on these particular bets. Don't know if I was just in bad lighting or something or if this is a consistent thing.

Also 50$ for 2/5 is by no means the standard win rate whatsoever and it is very uncommon. That is a top 2% number of the top 10% of winning players. If you can do over 30$ at 2/5 you are doing great compared to the field.

50$ is often considered the "max attainable" win rate in the game over the long run and I for the most part agree with that, though I have seen outliers with higher rates.

I know if you bet (doesn't matter the amount or whatever), assuming the paytable and # lines is consistent....you can create a multiply on $1 DDB, switch to $0.25 DDB play a little bit and end with a 1x1 bet. Someone comes over and plays something else, perhaps $0.50 DW. A vulture comes by, starts 'er up on $1, scrolls through the games and finds the $1 DDB with a multiplier. The "previous bet" will in fact show a 1x1 bet, due to the $0.25 DDB player's last bet, not the $1 DDB player's last bet.

But I am extremely suspicious about it working the way Exoter and IBYA are saying it can [albeit some machines are apparently different].

Quote: RS

Is this for real? Of all the machines I've poked at, I have never experienced that.

I've only seen it once or twice. Possibly older machines. Seemed weird to me too.

Here's an example: the previous wannabe UX vulture only played up to line 6, leaving the top lines dimmed.

You then come in and play 10 hands/5 credits per hand and scoop up the $10+ in leftover equity.

Quote: chaunceyb3

Here's an example: the previous wannabe UX vulture only played up to line 6, leaving the top lines dimmed.

You then come in and play 10 hands/5 credits per hand and scoop up the $10+ in leftover equity.

Yeah I think I qualify as a wannabe because this is what I witnessed this weekend lol. I remember changing the credits to 5 but don't recall if I changed hands do ten. Do the multipliers disappear regardless if you change the hand or not (even if you didn't bet on the hand with the multipliers?) The multipliers disappeared after I bet.

Quote: Hoodstar

I remember changing the credits to 5 but don't recall if I changed hands do ten.

Most of the UX I've seen does not allow selection of 5 coins without selecting all lines.

It's probable that you played it right.

I'm heading to a casino for dinner, now I am curious how it works in Vegas at least.

I've never seen/witnessed a machine that works the way chaunceyb3's picture's machine works...are those extremely old machines (or old versions of the software)?

Just tried to play ux 1 hand only at 5 credits. As soon as I pressed the credits up from 1 to 2 the number of hands went to 10.

I'm not saying this isn't possible, but all casinos I've tried this at won't let you play less than the maximum amount of hands.

You can't play one hand, 5 credits. But you CAN play one hand ONE credit.

The only exception is the one line game found on the Five Star Poker machines.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

You can't play one hand, 5 credits. But you CAN play one hand ONE credit.

The only exception is the one line game found on the Five Star Poker machines.

Yes the progression is 1 hand, 1 credit to 10 hands, 1 credit with nothing in between.

Quote: djatc

Yes the progression is 1 hand, 1 credit to 10 hands, 1 credit with nothing in between.

Right. And once you get to 10 hands, now you can bet either 1/2/3/4/5 or 10 credits.

Quote: RS

I'll give you one more chance to amend your story.

I haven't amended my story at all, and I have no need to amend it, what do you feel is "off" about it? I'd love to hear it.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Basically on some, not all UX machines that have multipliers, playing just one line one credit will leave the other multipliers on the screen untouched.

Every machine I've ever touched with ultimate X on it, has done what I've described. I've never seen of a machine that would act otherwise, and I'd imagine it might go against state regulations to have it "disappear", since the previous player "paid" for that hand's multiplier, and removing it would be taking away from the player. There's a guy at my local joint who religiously plays UX and waits until he gets a big 10/11/12x, saves it on the top 2 hands until he goes through about 8 or 9 hands without getting dealt something, and then tries to make it "deal" him on his big multipliers. Its silly, doesn't really work, but he feels better about life doing it, so more power to him.

Quote: RS

Is this for real? Of all the machines I've poked at, I have never experienced that.

You've never in your life seen a machine that was sitting at 1x1 on a 10 play that had the 8th hand with a "next hand multiplier" of 2x/3x/etc? You must not vulture often if you haven't, they are very, very common.

Quote: Hoodstar

I think he is right. I found a couple this weekend with 1 credit last bet with multiplers on other lines. The "Next Hand 2x" text also appeared darker than they normally do on these particular bets. Don't know if I was just in bad lighting or something or if this is a consistent thing.

Also 50$ for 2/5 is by no means the standard win rate whatsoever and it is very uncommon. That is a top 2% number of the top 10% of winning players. If you can do over 30$ at 2/5 you are doing great compared to the field.

50$ is often considered the "max attainable" win rate in the game over the long run and I for the most part agree with that, though I have seen outliers with higher rates.

That's because the hands are "greyed out", as to why they appear darker or shaded, because those hands are not in action and not being wagered, and thus neither is the multiplier, and so it can be "saved".

Quote: RS

I know if you bet (doesn't matter the amount or whatever), assuming the paytable and # lines is consistent....you can create a multiply on $1 DDB, switch to $0.25 DDB play a little bit and end with a 1x1 bet. Someone comes over and plays something else, perhaps $0.50 DW. A vulture comes by, starts 'er up on $1, scrolls through the games and finds the $1 DDB with a multiplier. The "previous bet" will in fact show a 1x1 bet, due to the $0.25 DDB player's last bet, not the $1 DDB player's last bet.

But I am extremely suspicious about it working the way Exoter and IBYA are saying it can [albeit some machines are apparently different].

Did you also know that the last hand dealt on triple play DDB will show up on every other DDB denomination of the same play type (IE 3 play, 5 play, or 10 play) for that specific game?

There's a lot of interesting looking "stuff" about UX, like what you described, you can also sit there and change every game of every denom to 1x1, and it will not change a thing, other than the "lit up" hands. Seriously, go play a quick round of 10 play nickels on UX, get your first multiplier above your base hand, then knock it down to 1x1 bet, then play. In the midwest/southwest, they all "stay" unless they are being played. Wherever you are, might differ as I've heard stories of there being a specific software version that "removes them" once they are cashed out, but I believe that to be an old wives tale.

Quote: chaunceyb3

Here's an example: the previous wannabe UX vulture only played up to line 6, leaving the top lines dimmed.

You then come in and play 10 hands/5 credits per hand and scoop up the $10+ in leftover equity.

I don't know of a single "wannabe" vulture that would leave that 3x alone, let alone a 4x. Its probably more likely that the previous person could older wager so much to get to that point, and couldn't hit those last few hands, or perhaps didn't want to wager "too much", or maybe they were a vulture and didn't have the amount of money required to hit it, who knows. Its just rare to see vultures not play off all multipliers, let alone not all the hands available. Usually these are just crackheads and homeless folk.

Quote: Hoodstar

Quote: chaunceyb3

Here's an example: the previous wannabe UX vulture only played up to line 6, leaving the top lines dimmed.

You then come in and play 10 hands/5 credits per hand and scoop up the $10+ in leftover equity.

Yeah I think I qualify as a wannabe because this is what I witnessed this weekend lol. I remember changing the credits to 5 but don't recall if I changed hands do ten. Do the multipliers disappear regardless if you change the hand or not (even if you didn't bet on the hand with the multipliers?) The multipliers disappeared after I bet.

The "next hand" multipliers will be awarded, and the current "4x" and "3x" from that picture on hands 5/6 will disappear, and you will see multipliers awarded for hands 9 and 10.

As far as the bet is concerned, if you bump your bet up to 5, it should automatically add the hands up to their full amount, before reaching "5 per hand".

Quote: RS

I've never seen/witnessed a machine that works the way chaunceyb3's picture's machine works...are those extremely old machines (or old versions of the software)?

No, those are actually fairly new in his picture, compared to the ones that I commonly play.

Quote: djatc

Just tried to play ux 1 hand only at 5 credits. As soon as I pressed the credits up from 1 to 2 the number of hands went to 10.

I'm not saying this isn't possible, but all casinos I've tried this at won't let you play less than the maximum amount of hands.

In UX, you can only play 1 credit per hand at less than 10 hands, you can play 1-10x1, but you cannot play less than 10x2/x3/x4/x5/x10 etc.

Quote: djatc

Yes the progression is 1 hand, 1 credit to 10 hands, 1 credit with nothing in between.

Actually, the progression is 1x1,2x1,3x1,4x1,5x1,6x1,7x1,8x1,9x1,10x1,10x2,10x3,10x4,10x5,10x10, at least for 10 play.

I always thought that was put in place to avoid vultures or the last bet a person makes playing max in the first five hands if they where the only ones with multipliers

UX must work differently in LV, since a 1x1 bet will knock down all multipliers.

Why is Exoter in red?

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Why is Exoter in red?

Too much swearing apparently.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Too much swearing apparently.

A question and an answer that were both appropriate but further discussion should be moved to the discussion about the discussion we have now entered thread (suspension list).
Cheers

Find some high limit UX DDB multipliers: ✔️
Insert $100 bill: ✔️
Get dealt three Aces: ✔️



Result:❓

Thanks for policing and providing valuable information

Quote: chaunceyb3

Find some high limit UX DDB multipliers: ✔️
Insert $100 bill: ✔️
Get dealt three Aces: ✔️



Result:❓

I expect you to hit at least one of them. You don't post losers too often. :p

I missed my huge find the other day. Terrible pic too because I forgot I had flash on, then immediately got admonished for taking it, so I didn't retake. 4.75% chance at first tax form. Sigh.

Solid read tringlomane 👍. Yep, the machine did not disappoint. $2 denomination UX plays- must be nice. (:

Are there a lot of casinos that just keep their high limit UX games running around the clock? Its seems like some in AC turn them off unless a whale wants to play them.

When I see a whale playing I often wonder if there is a quick enough window to sneak in after he leaves before the casino turns them off again, never had a chance to test that though :)

Really? You have seen a casino turn them off ?

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Really? You have seen a casino turn them off ?

Yeah the Revel :)

I am just dumbfounded with stuff some people post-I have never seen the casino turn off ultimate x machines while the casino is open- maybe in Florida and places the whole casino closes at a certain time

Unless I am hallucinating almost every time I am in the casino Borgata keeps their Ultimate X machines in the high limit slots disabled. There is almost always a blank screen on the machines when I walk by.

I'll take a picture next time since you guys don't believe me!