Jackpot Aces

I don't make much money from this game anymore. The three machines I have left are all in the same bar. These little joints can't stand to lose much money. If you go in and tag them for a few thousand dollars in short order they have the slot techs come in and investigate. When I first found the playabout 7 years ago I had to make the decision of torch it or milk it. When I had a few dozen machines I would run a circuit and not pull more than about $600 at a time out of a machine. There are about a dozen keno games and about a dozen poker games on each machine. I could tell by the meters if I had competition on the play. I didn't.

Jackpot Aces is a Two Pair Joker game based on the Aces, and you are betting only 50 cents per game. The payscale looks like this:

5 Aces......................1200 + 1% meter. Caps at $800
RF.............................800
5K.............................250
WR............................200
4 Natural Aces............300 + 1% meter
Natural Aces Full.........200 + 1% meter.
SF...............................50
4K...............................25
FH................................9
FL................................5
ST................................4
3K................................1
2P................................1

The mistake was in the Natural Aces Full hand. The meter is supposed to reset at $10, not $100. I just got lucky one day. I was playing a machine and the one next to me was not being played. While not being played these machines will systematically pull up a game and it will sit there for about a minute, then it will go back to the game selection screen, then pull another game up, etc.

So I was on a play and the machine next to me pulled up the Jackpot Aces game. I just happened to glance over and saw the Natural Aces Full meter at $102. Holy crap, I thought. I knew it was huge. But where was the meter gonna reset? I finished the play I was on and jumped over to the machine. I didn't have the strategy but what the hell? I played until I hit a Natural Aces Full. The meter reset at $100. So I got up and checked the other machines in the joint. They were all showing low amounts, $10 or $15 in the Natural Aces Full meter.

So I go back to the hotel to my laptop and Wolf Video Poker to analyze the game. But I couldn't fully analyze it because of the Natural Aces Full hand. But WVP was a big help. I had to figure out all the routes to a Natural Aces Full hand to get the frequency. I put it at 876. I tweaked the strategy chart by putting hands like One Ace, Pair of Aces, etc. in their proper place. When I added everything up it came to 113.5%.

So my train of thought was "If they made this mistake on one machine they may have made it on others." I literally went into every bar in the state looking for the mistake. I came up with a couple of dozen machines where the Aces Full meter reset at $100 and a couple dozen machines where the meter reset at $75. I started running a circuit on them pulling just so much money out. Then I would let the machine soak up money from the ploppies. I would write the meters down when I left. When I would get back a few weeks later I could tell if anyone else was hammering the game. I only had competition in one spot and I'll tell that story at a later date.

Slowly but surely the slot techs were fixing their mistake. I started losing machines to where I'm down to just three machines, all in the same joint.

Great stuff as always! This is what I call "research" and finding ways to profit from what you find. I dont get to Montana, but if we are ever in Vegas at the same time, I would love to meet you and buy you several drinks. And what I would get in return in stories from you would more than make it worthwhile.

Quote: Boz

Great stuff as always! This is what I call "research" and finding ways to profit from what you find. I dont get to Montana, but if we are ever in Vegas at the same time, I would love to meet you and buy you several drinks. And what I would get in return in stories from you would more than make it worthwhile.

Thanks, Boz. Jackpot Aces had some oddities to it. One of the main rules in video poker is never hold a kicker with a pair. But that is not true in this game. A pair with an Ace kicker plays. It's one of the shortest routes to an Aces Full hand. You will see a pair with an Ace Kicker every 12.03 hands and you will convert it to Aces Full every 376 draws, for a frequency of 4523. The shortest route to Aces Full is Two Pair/Aces Up. You will see that hand every 150 games and convert it every 24 draws for a frequency of 3600.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Thanks, Boz. Jackpot Aces had some oddities to it. One of the main rules in video poker is never hold a kicker with a pair. But that is not true in this game.

Not true in Bonus Deuces Wild either, you hold 22A in that game. Nice find on the game though!

I now have picttures of the Jackpot Aces game . I passed through the other day and tagged them again. I will post the pictures when I get home. I would appreciate it if the Singer followers would forward the pictures to him since he has always said my claims of huge edges are outrageous drunken lies. Trust me, the pictures will be posted and Singer will once again have mud on his face.

Quote: mickeycrimm

I now have picttures of the Jackpot Aces game . I passed through the other day and tagged them again. I will post the pictures when I get home. I would appreciate it if the Singer followers would forward the pictures to him since he has always said my claims of huge edges are outrageous drunken lies. Trust me, the pictures will be posted and Singer will once again have mud on his face.

At this point why not torch it? If it has been in play this long and you are not hitting it to often anymore I would think it would be the prime time to torch it.

Quote: GWAE

At this point why not torch it? If it has been in play this long and you are not hitting it to often anymore I would think it would be the prime time to torch it.

I'm happy doing it the way I'm doing it. Plus the owner is a super nice guy. I don't want to see him take a big hit. It ain't like I'm beating some strip casino. These are small operations, mom and pop joints. You get to know and become friends with them. You meet their wives, their kids they have to feed and put through school. I get a guilty conscience about hitting them to hard.

Quote: mickeycrimm

I'm happy doing it the way I'm doing it. Plus the owner is a super nice guy. I don't want to see him take a big hit. It ain't like I'm beating some strip casino. These are small operations, mom and pop joints. You get to know and become friends with them. You meet their wives, their kids they have to feed and put through school. I get a guilty conscience about hitting them to hard.

Just bring some suckers and heavy drinkers with you when you go. You can be, at least, break-even as a group.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Just bring some suckers and heavy drinkers with you when you go. You can be, at least, break-even as a group.

I wasn't originally going to say anything, but since someone has done it for me, I must admit that I am surprised at MickeyCrimm's sentiment. I agree that these people probably are very nice when you get down to knowing them on an individual level, but (unlike the casinos that offer restaurants, entertainment, shows and hotels) if you want to get down to the bare bones of a place that needs to strip straight-up addicts from their money in order to survive, parlors are where to find it.

I'm assuming these are roughly the same as W.V. parlors which, by the way, are limited to five machines but somehow operate at a profit while being open all but four hours every day. There are only three types that go in there:

1.) People like me who will lose no more than $5, and am mainly in it to kill a few minutes while having free cappuccino and snacks. I'm actually not going to them anymore, anyway, because of my new 2% Rule for negative expectation gambling because I want my overall expectation to be positive for the year.

2.) People who are in there for the $1 beers and slow play the heck out of the machines.

3.) Addicts. Straight-up. No doubt. Absolutely addicts. $20 after $20 after $20....

4.) Advantage Players (in MickeyCrimm's case) but there are no games in W.V. parlors (that I have seen) that ever yield any kind of player advantage.

If you take the addicts out of the equation, then it's a bar. Except, it's a bar with an unsustainable business model because it doesn't have liquor, offers free snacks, offers free coffee/cappuccino and only charges $1 for a beer.

In other words, if you take the addicts out of the equation, there is no equation because the place is closed...or operating as something else.

I'd like to point out that my point was not the same as yours. I have no problems with this industry, morally.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I'd like to point out that my point was not the same as yours. I have no problems with this industry, morally.

No, me either, people are responsible for their own decisions on an individual basis. My point was that, for someone who does have a moral position against casinos (as MickeyCrimm seemed to imply, though I may have misinterpreted his statement) I would think that they'd take even greater exception to the parlor business model, which relies exclusively on addicts.

Oh, I see.

I think his point was that he is ok with cutting into MGM's profits, but not so ok cutting into the income that this guy uses to feed his family.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but I understand why someone would feel that way.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Oh, I see.

I think his point was that he is ok with cutting into MGM's profits, but not so ok cutting into the income that this guy uses to feed his family.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but I understand why someone would feel that way.

but this same guy has no problem taking money from a 9-5 with a problem who needs to feed his family.

Quote: Mission146

I wasn't originally going to say anything, but since someone has done it for me, I must admit that I am surprised at MickeyCrimm's sentiment. I agree that these people probably are very nice when you get down to knowing them on an individual level, but (unlike the casinos that offer restaurants, entertainment, shows and hotels) if you want to get down to the bare bones of a place that needs to strip straight-up addicts from their money in order to survive, parlors are where to find it.

I'm assuming these are roughly the same as W.V. parlors which, by the way, are limited to five machines but somehow operate at a profit while being open all but four hours every day. There are only three types that go in there:

1.) People like me who will lose no more than $5, and am mainly in it to kill a few minutes while having free cappuccino and snacks. I'm actually not going to them anymore, anyway, because of my new 2% Rule for negative expectation gambling because I want my overall expectation to be positive for the year.

2.) People who are in there for the $1 beers and slow play the heck out of the machines.

3.) Addicts. Straight-up. No doubt. Absolutely addicts. $20 after $20 after $20....

4.) Advantage Players (in MickeyCrimm's case) but there are no games in W.V. parlors (that I have seen) that ever yield any kind of player advantage.

If you take the addicts out of the equation, then it's a bar. Except, it's a bar with an unsustainable business model because it doesn't have liquor, offers free snacks, offers free coffee/cappuccino and only charges $1 for a beer.

In other words, if you take the addicts out of the equation, there is no equation because the place is closed...or operating as something else.

Mission, I'll tell you something I did one time. I found a Jackpot Aces play in a VFW. Except it was Super Super Jackpot Aces. The aces full meter started at $150 and the 4 aces meter started at $500. I dove right in until it dawned on me what I was doing. I corralled up the post commander and told him to knock the meters down to lower resets. He thought I was some kind of flake and blew me off. I threatened to beat him out of $1000 a day
until he changed his mind. That got his attention. He had the meters knocked down.

I dusted off a $125 an hour play where the total action is $500 an hour like it was nothing. There are some things I'm not willing to do. Taking money that is intended for veterans causes is one of them.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Mission, I'll tell you something I did one time. I found a Jackpot Aces play in a VFW. Except it was Super Super Jackpot Aces. The aces full meter started at $150 and the 4 aces meter started at $500. I dove right in until it dawned on me what I was doing. I corralled up the post commander and told him to knock the meters down to lower resets. He thought I was some kind of flake and blew me off. I threatened to beat him out of $1000 a day
until he changed his mind. That got his attention. He had the meters knocked down.

I dusted off a $125 an hour play where the total action is $500 an hour like it was nothing. There are some things I'm not willing to do. Taking money that is intended for veterans causes is one of them.

I understand what you mean, and please don't misunderstand me as questioning the nobility of your position, I think the intent of your position is definitely noble. The point that I am making is that the Veterans' Causes money and the money that the people are using to feed their families, more than any other kind of gambling money there is, is coming from hopeless addicts. Hopeless addicts are the entire business model.

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with that, as I am a proponent of self-responsibility, I'm just stating what the model is.

I guess my point is, were I in your position, I would pummel the sole-proprietor of one of those establishments (though maybe not VFW) just as mercilessly as I would a major casino. They're playing the same game, but on different levels, and the sole-proprietor knows where 98% of his money is coming from.

mickey, what happened with the other AP? You two end up sitting side by side giving each other the stink eye?

I'm with Mission on the pummel... heck I might have hit the VFW also. :)

Quote: Mission146

I understand what you mean, and please don't misunderstand me as questioning the nobility of your position, I think the intent of your position is definitely noble. The point that I am making is that the Veterans' Causes money and the money that the people are using to feed their families, more than any other kind of gambling money there is, is coming from hopeless addicts. Hopeless addicts are the entire business model.

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with that, as I am a proponent of self-responsibility, I'm just stating what the model is.

I guess my point is, were I in your position, I would pummel the sole-proprietor of one of those establishments (though maybe not VFW) just as mercilessly as I would a major casino. They're playing the same game, but on different levels, and the sole-proprietor knows where 98% of his money is coming from.

I see your point. I'm feeling sorry for the wrong people. And you're right. I see the addicts every time I walk into a casino.

Mission, about the addicts. When machines first hit Montana bankruptcies shot sky high. There were no early closure laws but virtually every town has enacted them since. I got drunk in Billings with a guard at the Montana State Women's Penitentiary. He told me that a third of the women were in on gambling related offenses, bad checks, embezzlement, etc. A casino owner told me that one of his expenses was replacing chairs that womrn pee'd in. They got so zoned in they wouldn't even go to the restroom 20 feet away.

Mission, about the addicts. When machines first hit Montana bankruptcies shot sky high. There were no early closure laws but virtually every town has enacted them since. I got drunk in Billings with a guard at the Montana State Women's Penitentiary. He told me that a third of the women were in on gambling related offenses, bad checks, embezzlement, etc. A casino owner told me that one of his expenses was replacing chairs that womrn pee'd in. They got so zoned in they wouldn't even go to the restroom 20 feet away.

Quote: mickeycrimm

A casino owner told me that one of his expenses was replacing chairs that womrn pee'd in. They got so zoned in they wouldn't even go to the restroom 20 feet away.

Amazingly, the phenomenon was predicted before regulated gaming in Montana was even imagined:

Quote: 1st Samuel, 25:22

So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the seat cushion.