Harrah's 10/5 trip
October 7th, 2015 at 9:25:23 PM
permalink
Please see the Side Trip thread for my report on the waterfalls we visited.
I also did a little gaming. I had $75 in Free Play, so I scared up another $500 as my BR for the trip. Wife and I were going to play BJ, but since I was on a free room, I knew we needed to play $25 min., and $500 wasn't going to last long. So I decided to try and win a bit at craps first. :-(
I love empty tables, and one was waiting for me. Dealers warned me the table was cold. Another gent bought in same time I did, and we both managed to not roll a point, TWICE. Finally a third joins us, and he is playing, and shooting, from the DP. He was doing okay, but the come out 7s were taking a toll on him. My wife stops by about 1 hr into it, and I have about $100 left (plus the $75 Free Play). She gives me that crestfallen (ie. guilt) look that she wont be playing any BJ. With my last $60 on the table, it finally turns. By now, the DP has left, having been killed by a couple of made points, and the ever present comeout 7s. His leaving seemed to turn the tide, and the player on the other end throws a 5 point Fire. I was not on the Fire bet, and I was slow to really start betting his roll, but he got me ahead $125 for the session. From a table that was doing nothing to 5 point Fire. Go figure.
Wife and I went to play $25 BJ. Empty table, I bought in on my card, and my wife played. I watched, since $50 a hand won't work on a $500 BR. She won't stick to BS, instead 'playing her instincts', but usually only with not always wanting to hit her 16. But she is willing to double down on hands when the dealer has a 5 or 6 showing. Another gent sat down, and I watched as three rounds of hands were dealt, and not a single 10 value card, or Ace, was dealt. After a few more rounds, I had seen very few 10s. I am not a counter, but only a fool would have not realized the count was probably pretty good. So I jumped in with a $25 bet of my own, since my wife was now up $100. We played through 3 shoes, with the 3rd shoe being a dealer busts every time he did not have a pat 2 card hand. We got to $1500 and never raised our bets, other than to double. In the 4th shoe, the tide turned, and we gave back $125 before exiting, now up $875 for the trip. Wife is ready for bed, me not so much......
This time I use my head, and give her the $500. She wanted the $875, but I had better negotiating skills than she did. Besides, I promised not to play more than $500, and a gambler never breaks their word, right? With $875 in my pocket, at 9:15 PM I headed back to craps. As luck would have it, there was a $15 table with no one on it. Once again the dealers warned me it was a cold table. This time no one joined me. I bought in with $300, $10 PL, $50 odds on the 8, $48 Inside, and PSO. #@$%$%$%$#$@#$!!@#$#$@ my luck.
$10 PL , $25 odds , $36 6/8 , seven OUT.
Threw 4 rolls, never made a point, hardly made any numbers. Only smart thing I did was leave with $70.
By now a spot had opened on the $10 table, so I went there and bought in with the remaining $200 of the $500. Spent the next 4.5 hrs getting almost back to even ( $500), and then going back down. A couple of shooters I got a couple of bets out there in the $90 range, but just couldn't get that 1 or 2 hits to put me over the top. I finally quit at 2:00 AM, down $425 for the session, but still $400 ahead for the trip.
Next morning, we decide to play some BJ before heading home. I set a leaving time of 11:00 AM at the absolute latest, so we will be home before rush hour. We get on a $15 table, and the pit agrees to give us an aggregate rating for both of our play on my card. I am playing $25, and she is playing $15. We started off winning, but the third shoe the dealer pulled BJ three straight hands, so we left, up $225. Wife asks me if I want to try craps again. DUH !! She takes $40 to play slots, and off I go with the $650 (using the Free Play now).
I get to the $10 craps table just as a guy is coloring up $11,470. Other end of the table has 2 players. They tell me the table has not had many points, but everyone is making quite a few throws before they 7 out. 3 guys throw before me, and they all make one point, but throw quite a few box numbers. I now have enough to be able to start aggressively pressing. I am playing $54 Across, and pressing on the first hit to $25 or $30 ,then pressing $25/$30 every hit after that. I get a couple of pays at the $75/$90 level, but for the most part, I never get the big hit that would really but me over the top. I had a 2 point roll, which made me the table king for getting 2 points. I hit quite a few box numbers, but alas, my Buy 10 died with $150 on it (not hit), and a Come bet 9 with $100 odds, and the PL with $100 odds. Again, I just needed one of those to hit, and I would have been in good shape. Next time the dice came to me, I bet $135 Across, threw one box number, went 7 out, and cashed in. Trip ended, +$1,100. We discussed staying an extra night, but I have had so many losing sessions lately, I really wanted to bring some profit home for a change, so we left.
I also did a little gaming. I had $75 in Free Play, so I scared up another $500 as my BR for the trip. Wife and I were going to play BJ, but since I was on a free room, I knew we needed to play $25 min., and $500 wasn't going to last long. So I decided to try and win a bit at craps first. :-(
I love empty tables, and one was waiting for me. Dealers warned me the table was cold. Another gent bought in same time I did, and we both managed to not roll a point, TWICE. Finally a third joins us, and he is playing, and shooting, from the DP. He was doing okay, but the come out 7s were taking a toll on him. My wife stops by about 1 hr into it, and I have about $100 left (plus the $75 Free Play). She gives me that crestfallen (ie. guilt) look that she wont be playing any BJ. With my last $60 on the table, it finally turns. By now, the DP has left, having been killed by a couple of made points, and the ever present comeout 7s. His leaving seemed to turn the tide, and the player on the other end throws a 5 point Fire. I was not on the Fire bet, and I was slow to really start betting his roll, but he got me ahead $125 for the session. From a table that was doing nothing to 5 point Fire. Go figure.
Wife and I went to play $25 BJ. Empty table, I bought in on my card, and my wife played. I watched, since $50 a hand won't work on a $500 BR. She won't stick to BS, instead 'playing her instincts', but usually only with not always wanting to hit her 16. But she is willing to double down on hands when the dealer has a 5 or 6 showing. Another gent sat down, and I watched as three rounds of hands were dealt, and not a single 10 value card, or Ace, was dealt. After a few more rounds, I had seen very few 10s. I am not a counter, but only a fool would have not realized the count was probably pretty good. So I jumped in with a $25 bet of my own, since my wife was now up $100. We played through 3 shoes, with the 3rd shoe being a dealer busts every time he did not have a pat 2 card hand. We got to $1500 and never raised our bets, other than to double. In the 4th shoe, the tide turned, and we gave back $125 before exiting, now up $875 for the trip. Wife is ready for bed, me not so much......
This time I use my head, and give her the $500. She wanted the $875, but I had better negotiating skills than she did. Besides, I promised not to play more than $500, and a gambler never breaks their word, right? With $875 in my pocket, at 9:15 PM I headed back to craps. As luck would have it, there was a $15 table with no one on it. Once again the dealers warned me it was a cold table. This time no one joined me. I bought in with $300, $10 PL, $50 odds on the 8, $48 Inside, and PSO. #@$%$%$%$#$@#$!!@#$#$@ my luck.
$10 PL , $25 odds , $36 6/8 , seven OUT.
Threw 4 rolls, never made a point, hardly made any numbers. Only smart thing I did was leave with $70.
By now a spot had opened on the $10 table, so I went there and bought in with the remaining $200 of the $500. Spent the next 4.5 hrs getting almost back to even ( $500), and then going back down. A couple of shooters I got a couple of bets out there in the $90 range, but just couldn't get that 1 or 2 hits to put me over the top. I finally quit at 2:00 AM, down $425 for the session, but still $400 ahead for the trip.
Next morning, we decide to play some BJ before heading home. I set a leaving time of 11:00 AM at the absolute latest, so we will be home before rush hour. We get on a $15 table, and the pit agrees to give us an aggregate rating for both of our play on my card. I am playing $25, and she is playing $15. We started off winning, but the third shoe the dealer pulled BJ three straight hands, so we left, up $225. Wife asks me if I want to try craps again. DUH !! She takes $40 to play slots, and off I go with the $650 (using the Free Play now).
I get to the $10 craps table just as a guy is coloring up $11,470. Other end of the table has 2 players. They tell me the table has not had many points, but everyone is making quite a few throws before they 7 out. 3 guys throw before me, and they all make one point, but throw quite a few box numbers. I now have enough to be able to start aggressively pressing. I am playing $54 Across, and pressing on the first hit to $25 or $30 ,then pressing $25/$30 every hit after that. I get a couple of pays at the $75/$90 level, but for the most part, I never get the big hit that would really but me over the top. I had a 2 point roll, which made me the table king for getting 2 points. I hit quite a few box numbers, but alas, my Buy 10 died with $150 on it (not hit), and a Come bet 9 with $100 odds, and the PL with $100 odds. Again, I just needed one of those to hit, and I would have been in good shape. Next time the dice came to me, I bet $135 Across, threw one box number, went 7 out, and cashed in. Trip ended, +$1,100. We discussed staying an extra night, but I have had so many losing sessions lately, I really wanted to bring some profit home for a change, so we left.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 7th, 2015 at 9:58:11 PM
permalink
Ratings rant:
I played craps for the first hour. Bought in for $500, and started out playing just PL and small odds bet, but soon switched to $10 PL and $34 Inside. Take a hit, and press $5/$6. Played for an hour on cold table, but scored when a shooter hit 5 to the fire and I won a bunch of $25/$50/$75 Place bets, along with 5 points with $25 or $50 in odds.
We then played BJ at $25 a hand, my wife playing on my card, and I joined in after a few hands,also at $25. So we played $50 a hand for an hour or so.
I then went back to craps, and played for 5 hours, starting out at $10 PL, mostly with $34 or $54 Inside/Across. However, as I started to make some money, I was soon pressing doing the $25 press, so I was easily getting into the range of $150 in bets on the table. As they were getting ready to change shifts, I asked the current Pit what my time and rating was. He stated I started at 9:15 (correct), and my average bet was $50-$60 (so far off, not even funny). So we had a bit of a discussion. He tried to explain that my initial bet is what he rates, and he makes adjustments later if he sees I am betting more. I replied if that was the case, how could the last hour where I was pressing Place and Buy bets into the $100 range still have me at a $50 avg? He conversed with the box, who confirmed my level of betting had gotten significantly higher. (Proving the pit was NOT DOING his job). Anyway, he comes back and tells me he is adjusting me to a $175 Avg bet. Probably high, but okay. I played for another 1.5 hours.
I then had a 30 min BJ session where we bet an avg of $40 a hand, and another 1.5 hour craps session where I was betting $54 Across and immediately pressing to the $25 range, so after 4 rolls, I had around $130 in play, and it went well into the $200 range most of the time.
All of this play got me $11 in rewards credits. I am pretty sure that turd Pit never bumped my rating, and I don't think we got any credit for the sessions that lasted less than 1 hour. I don't give a rats about the reward credit comp dollars. I do care about being recognized as someone who is betting in the $150+ range, and treated accordingly. I also care that my play keeps getting me free rooms, and at the ratings I am getting now, that could stop. Finally, it is making it damn near impossible to get to Platinum with such crappy ratings. Probably having winning sessions each time didn't help. It's not supposed to matter, but.............
When I was working and had lots of disposable income, it wasn't that big of a deal. I was going to make enough trips that I would get enough high level play in. But now I can only plan on 1, maybe 2, trips a year, unless of course I have a win. Harrah's could end the loser in all of this.
Wife and I can still take a free junket to Beau Rivage. They aren't going as often as they were, but I only need one trip a year of good play to keep me in good graces. Could be the end of Cherokee for me if they keep this shit up.
I have never been in Cherokee on a Monday or Tuesday morning, but man was it dead. I asked the dealer if the crowds had been down since the new casino opened. He claimed they were busy as ever, but I don't buy it. I asked how many dealers left, and he admitted quite a few went to the new casino. However, he felt that most of the good Pit and Floor managers stayed in Cherokee. Time will tell.
I played craps for the first hour. Bought in for $500, and started out playing just PL and small odds bet, but soon switched to $10 PL and $34 Inside. Take a hit, and press $5/$6. Played for an hour on cold table, but scored when a shooter hit 5 to the fire and I won a bunch of $25/$50/$75 Place bets, along with 5 points with $25 or $50 in odds.
We then played BJ at $25 a hand, my wife playing on my card, and I joined in after a few hands,also at $25. So we played $50 a hand for an hour or so.
I then went back to craps, and played for 5 hours, starting out at $10 PL, mostly with $34 or $54 Inside/Across. However, as I started to make some money, I was soon pressing doing the $25 press, so I was easily getting into the range of $150 in bets on the table. As they were getting ready to change shifts, I asked the current Pit what my time and rating was. He stated I started at 9:15 (correct), and my average bet was $50-$60 (so far off, not even funny). So we had a bit of a discussion. He tried to explain that my initial bet is what he rates, and he makes adjustments later if he sees I am betting more. I replied if that was the case, how could the last hour where I was pressing Place and Buy bets into the $100 range still have me at a $50 avg? He conversed with the box, who confirmed my level of betting had gotten significantly higher. (Proving the pit was NOT DOING his job). Anyway, he comes back and tells me he is adjusting me to a $175 Avg bet. Probably high, but okay. I played for another 1.5 hours.
I then had a 30 min BJ session where we bet an avg of $40 a hand, and another 1.5 hour craps session where I was betting $54 Across and immediately pressing to the $25 range, so after 4 rolls, I had around $130 in play, and it went well into the $200 range most of the time.
All of this play got me $11 in rewards credits. I am pretty sure that turd Pit never bumped my rating, and I don't think we got any credit for the sessions that lasted less than 1 hour. I don't give a rats about the reward credit comp dollars. I do care about being recognized as someone who is betting in the $150+ range, and treated accordingly. I also care that my play keeps getting me free rooms, and at the ratings I am getting now, that could stop. Finally, it is making it damn near impossible to get to Platinum with such crappy ratings. Probably having winning sessions each time didn't help. It's not supposed to matter, but.............
When I was working and had lots of disposable income, it wasn't that big of a deal. I was going to make enough trips that I would get enough high level play in. But now I can only plan on 1, maybe 2, trips a year, unless of course I have a win. Harrah's could end the loser in all of this.
Wife and I can still take a free junket to Beau Rivage. They aren't going as often as they were, but I only need one trip a year of good play to keep me in good graces. Could be the end of Cherokee for me if they keep this shit up.
I have never been in Cherokee on a Monday or Tuesday morning, but man was it dead. I asked the dealer if the crowds had been down since the new casino opened. He claimed they were busy as ever, but I don't buy it. I asked how many dealers left, and he admitted quite a few went to the new casino. However, he felt that most of the good Pit and Floor managers stayed in Cherokee. Time will tell.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 8th, 2015 at 6:30:41 AM
permalink
Nice report and insight RC, thanks.
I suspect my play is not being rated correctly either, but I truly don't know how to tell.
The table games rating system is very vague, at best.
But you did OK on your play results, good for you! Congrats! 2F
I suspect my play is not being rated correctly either, but I truly don't know how to tell.
The table games rating system is very vague, at best.
But you did OK on your play results, good for you! Congrats! 2F
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
October 8th, 2015 at 7:30:35 AM
permalink
That's why I pretty much only play the crappy video poker at Harrahs Cherokee no RC's for table play.
Gambling is a metaphor for life. Hang around long enough and it's all gone.
October 8th, 2015 at 7:36:22 AM
permalink
Quote: RaleighCrapsAs luck would have it, there was a $15 table with no one on it. Once again the dealers warned me it was a cold table. This time no one joined me. I bought in with $300, $10 PL, $50 odds on the 8, $48 Inside, and PSO. #@$%$%$%$#$@#$!!@#$#$@ my luck.
In spite of the PSO, I think maybe you were having too much fun to bother keeping track of your own play! Or perhaps you've figured out how to get away with making $10 line bets on a $15 table. Does that style of play hurt your ratings from the PB? ;-)
Congratulations on the winning trip, in spite of the ups and downs. I think that has to be expected with craps. I plan to be at Cherokee (and Murphy) in a little over a week.
October 8th, 2015 at 7:44:10 AM
permalink
Quote: DocQuote: RaleighCrapsAs luck would have it, there was a $15 table with no one on it. Once again the dealers warned me it was a cold table. This time no one joined me. I bought in with $300, $10 PL, $50 odds on the 8, $48 Inside, and PSO. #@$%$%$%$#$@#$!!@#$#$@ my luck.
In spite of the PSO, I think maybe you were having too much fun to bother keeping track of your own play! Or perhaps you've figured out how to get away with making $10 line bets on a $15 table. Does that style of play hurt your ratings from the PB? ;-)
Congratulations on the winning trip, in spite of the ups and downs. I think that has to be expected with craps. I plan to be at Cherokee (and Murphy) in a little over a week.
I will be in Cherokee sooner, and probably run by Murphy (River Valley) as well, just to have a look around. Think I'm going to beat you to a collector's chip ;-) not that it means anything really.... Hope you have some fun, very pretty up there right now if you don't mind the crowds of leaf peekers ;-(
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
October 8th, 2015 at 9:33:24 AM
permalink
Excellent! Hope you will post an image in the Casino Chip of the Day thread, along with one of your detailed reports covering the new casino. That thread could use a boost in its role as a travel guide.Quote: TwoFeathersATLI will be in Cherokee sooner, and probably run by Murphy (River Valley) as well, just to have a look around. Think I'm going to beat you to a collector's chip ;-) not that it means anything really....
I think that for some reason they are commonly called "leaf peepers", and the folks in the area are apparently expecting a bunch of them for that weekend. To let a little info out of the bag, my wife and I plan to meet with rdw4potus and his fiancée on this trip. He was able to get a room at the Cherokee casino at what he considered an attractive rate. The casino folks told me that they were completely sold out on Saturday night (something to the effect of "no room for a skuzzball low-roller like you") but that I could get a Friday night room for just $449. I passed on the opportunity. They did offer something more reasonable for Sunday night, but I need to be back home on Monday morning.Quote: TwoFeathersATLHope you have some fun, very pretty up there right now if you don't mind the crowds of leaf peekers ;-(
I searched the entire area for a room, but (probably due to the peekers/peepers) almost every hotel for miles was either sold out or had rates double their norm or higher. I eventually found a room available over in Andrews, NC on the road between Cherokee and Murphy, so it should work out for visiting both casinos.
After a few of us have checked out the new casino, and after the fall tourism season softens a little (but not too long after), I hope we can get a group of WoV folks together for one of our regional gatherings, possibly getting the whole group to both of the NC casinos. For me personally, mid-week works better, because of room availability and rates, but I realize that many folks here are not so delightfully unemployed as I am, so a weekend schedule might be necessary.
October 8th, 2015 at 10:29:43 AM
permalink
"What's up Doc?"
Sorry, I could not resist.
Yep, the leaves are turning, the crowds are coming, already arrived in fact.
I am heading that way, wasn't exactly my idea, I am accommodating, or at least try to be within reason, I may have been too accommodating, I'll report back on the crowds and the repercussions. I will admit that a week ago I asked a couple of different ways, including thru my host, if I could get a second room for this upcoming weekend. I think it pained the host, I thought I felt his pain on the phone. The answer was "no, we are overbooked".
Wish me luck thru the traffic, and the crowds, and cramming my young wife and 2 sons (10 &12) into a single room in the Mountain Tower. I can go curl up by Soco Creek w/o any problem for the night, unless security finds me there, in which case there might be a problem, in which case it is not my fault if security finds themselves swimming toward the bank of the stream. It's a very friendly bank, beautifully landscaped with easy access both to/from ;-)
Sorry, I could not resist.
Yep, the leaves are turning, the crowds are coming, already arrived in fact.
I am heading that way, wasn't exactly my idea, I am accommodating, or at least try to be within reason, I may have been too accommodating, I'll report back on the crowds and the repercussions. I will admit that a week ago I asked a couple of different ways, including thru my host, if I could get a second room for this upcoming weekend. I think it pained the host, I thought I felt his pain on the phone. The answer was "no, we are overbooked".
Wish me luck thru the traffic, and the crowds, and cramming my young wife and 2 sons (10 &12) into a single room in the Mountain Tower. I can go curl up by Soco Creek w/o any problem for the night, unless security finds me there, in which case there might be a problem, in which case it is not my fault if security finds themselves swimming toward the bank of the stream. It's a very friendly bank, beautifully landscaped with easy access both to/from ;-)
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
October 8th, 2015 at 11:03:38 AM
permalink
Twofeathers
Do you know or can you find out if the dealers in Cherokee and Murphy stay on the same table all shift or do they rotate around and change tables after each break?
Do you know or can you find out if the dealers in Cherokee and Murphy stay on the same table all shift or do they rotate around and change tables after each break?
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
October 8th, 2015 at 11:08:16 AM
permalink
Quote: HunterhillTwofeathers
Do you know or can you find out if the dealers in Cherokee and Murphy stay on the same table all shift or do they rotate around and change tables after each break?
The latter is called a "rubber band" string. But don't use this term in the casino.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
October 8th, 2015 at 11:41:17 AM
permalink
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe latter is called a "rubber band" string. But don't use this term in the casino.
I can speak a little about what I have seen.
I have played at several different tables, some worked out better (see that, I was the bettor) than others. What I have observed has been a dealer being assigned to a table, with a 15 min break each hour, meaning I played with the same dealers, and usually the same relief dealers, for hours on end. Shifts do change, sometimes before I thought they would, or should, but I wasn't really concentrating on this information. Why do you ask?
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
October 8th, 2015 at 12:34:01 PM
permalink
Yeah I'm well aware of that but I wasn't sure if responders would be.Quote: IbeatyouracesThe latter is called a "rubber band" string. But don't use this term in the casino.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
October 8th, 2015 at 12:38:21 PM
permalink
Well if they stay on the same table you can find a nice friendly dealer and not worry about a nasty dealer coming to your table. :)Quote: TwoFeathersATLI can speak a little about what I have seen.
I have played at several different tables, some worked out better (see that, I was the bettor) than others. What I have observed has been a dealer being assigned to a table, with a 15 min break each hour, meaning I played with the same dealers, and usually the same relief dealers, for hours on end. Shifts do change, sometimes before I thought they would, or should, but I wasn't really concentrating on this information. Why do you ask?
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
October 8th, 2015 at 1:23:16 PM
permalink
Quote: HunterhillWell if they stay on the same table you can find a nice friendly dealer and not worry about a nasty dealer coming to your table. :)
I have run into nice dealers mostly, maybe I'm just lucky..
It seems to be the "break" dealers that clean me out resulting in me having to start over. I am nearly 100% sure that the 'dealer' makes no difference whatsoever in my results, it just seems that way. I can recognize when I am simply delusional.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
October 8th, 2015 at 2:28:48 PM
permalink
Quote: IbeatyouracesThe latter is called a "rubber band" string. But don't use this term in the casino.
You knew someone would ask why I shouldn't use it. Let me introduce you to 'that guy'.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 8th, 2015 at 4:10:37 PM
permalink
Quote: RaleighCrapsYou knew someone would ask why I shouldn't use it. Let me introduce you to 'that guy'.
We're you referring to me?
That's a question to RC.
It can be answered online, PM'd, or ignored.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
October 8th, 2015 at 7:42:53 PM
permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATLWe're you referring to me?
That's a question to RC.
It can be answered online, PM'd, or ignored.
Nah, not you. I was referring to myself as being the guy that is asking why I shouldn't use the term. I can usually figure them out, but I am clueless on this one.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
October 8th, 2015 at 8:54:30 PM
permalink
The use of that term would make you sound like you are knowledgeable or have worked in the industry .
It's not something the average player would be aware of.
It's not something the average player would be aware of.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
