HE and EoR: Same result in the end but...

I always thought EoR as better because you can get close to BJ #s.
But today i actually used real #s and found that both HE and EoR give the same expected loss.

UTH:
House edge is 2.2%
Element of Risk is .53%

HE uses the ante bet.
EoR uses the avg total bet. (4.2 units for UTH)

So if you're playing $10 ante, then you'd expect to lose $10 x 2.2% = 22 cents for each hand you play.
EoR: $10 x 4.2 = $42 x .53% = 22 cents
You lose the same avg amount each hand!

So you might ask 'Why use EoR?'
It's to compare apples to apples between various table games where you can increase your bet beyond the initial bet.

Wiz gives examples:
Blackjack- HE .43%, EoR .38%. Small difference since you don't increase your bet that often
UTH- HE 2.2%, EoR .53%. Big difference (1/4 the HE)
Double down Stud- HE 2.7%, EoR 2.1%

Even though UTH and DDS are both 2.x% HE, UTH is much better to play because it's EoR is close to BJ.

it may matter which you look at if something is going on like hole carding or a dealer who can't see his own straights

my complaint is the ante bet per name is one thing, but the actual pony-up is the named ante bet plus the blind bet. I'm totally convinced that the floor is ordered to make table game antes $25, say, wanting the pony-up to be 25, but making the UTH a $50 start for play. No pit boss would want to make an issue of it, perhaps none could possibly care.

I believe all these new terminologies to compare different games are not very convincing. To better compare two games, we need to be at the stand point of casino, that is, to measure how much money a casino may make out of this table within a fixed time of one hour.

That's kind of like adding 3X odds to the Pass Line bet and getting a lower HA on the total amount bet instead of just the simple 1.4% on just the Pass Line bet.

Quote: aceside

I believe all these new terminologies to compare different games are not very convincing.
To better compare two games, we need to be at the stand point of casino, that is, to measure how much money a casino may make out of this table within a fixed time of one hour.
link to original post

Unfortunately, not everyone plays with basic strategy which increases the casino profits.
Table full of people who read WoO vs a table full of clueless kids that just turned 21 vs something in-between.

And in an hr, you will get anywhere from 0 to full table of players.

How are you going to account for those variables if using casino table profit per hr?

Quote: ChumpChange

That's kind of like adding 3X odds to the Pass Line bet and getting a lower HA on the total amount bet instead of just the simple 1.4% on just the Pass Line bet.
link to original post

For craps, HE of passline with odds is already calculated so should be the same as EoR. You're not going to be increasing your bet if you maxed the odds.

For uth and bj, you're not always increasing your bet

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: aceside

I believe all these new terminologies to compare different games are not very convincing.
To better compare two games, we need to be at the stand point of casino, that is, to measure how much money a casino may make out of this table within a fixed time of one hour.
link to original post

Unfortunately, not everyone plays with basic strategy which increases the casino profits.
Table full of people who read WoO vs a table full of clueless kids that just turned 21 vs something in-between.

And in an hr, you will get anywhere from 0 to full table of players.

How are you going to account for those variables if using casino table profit per hr?
link to original post

We can make some assumptions first. In blackjack, a single player plays 100 hands an hour betting $15 a hand using basic strategy; in UTH, a single player plays 20 hands an hours betting $10+$10 a hand using basic strategy. What are the EV and variance of these two players?

Personally I'd like to know the average cost of playing the game and how much might I have to risk given the table minimums for the two games are the same. There is also the slight factor of how risky (variance) the game is and whether I'm likely to drip chips but have the occasional good win (like poker based games) or just go up and down like Blackjack, Roulette or Craps if not pressing your bets.
Another factor is how often your money bets: so placing $6 on 6 or 8 (at 7/6) is marginally better than $5 on pass (or don't pass if you prefer) for making your money last longer (as the place bet doesn't work on come out rolls). Also, as the last post suggests, is how many hands/spins/rolls the table has per hour.

We also have to take into consideration the amount of time that a player takes to learn a game. UTH is a lot harder than Blackjack. That’s why the number of UTH players is a lot less than those of blackjack.