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Wizard
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Wizard
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August 25th, 2023 at 2:39:15 PM permalink
In his new book The Ultimate Report, James Grosjean points out that there seem to be two versions of the rules out there. They differ by what happens to the Super Bonus wager when the player loses and the dealer doesn't qualify. For example, the player has 10-high and the dealer has Jack-high.

At the Bicycle Club they say the Super Bonus would push. If the dealer doesn't qualify and player has less than a straight, it always does.

My interpretation of the rules in Washington state is that the Super Bonus would lose. It doesn't directly address the situation, but the rules say the Super Bonus is a push if the player ties or beats the dealer with less than a straight. I assume whether the dealer qualifies is irrelevant for purposes of the Super Bonus in Washington. By omission, if the player didn't meet the conditions to win or push, I assume he loses.

My Crazy 4 Poker page went with the Washington rules.

In his book Grosjean writes, "If a competent analyzes like the Wizard misstates the rules or is forced to oversimplify the description, and have to present a table to clarify the payout scheme (table 12), then the game is way too convoluted." In the table he mentions, Grosjean says this situation is a push, but footnotes it saying, "Most websites ignore this case, or incorrectly suggest that the player loses the Super Bonus. The BS Edge is unaffected by this discrepancy, because the BS player (KQ84++ or KQ8++) would have already folded any hand that could lose to a dealer non-qualifying hand.

My question for the poll is what would happen in the example hand where the player has a ten high and the dealer has jack high?
Last edited by: Wizard on Sep 7, 2023
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
JoeTheDragon
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September 7th, 2023 at 6:55:20 AM permalink
Bicycle Club is an california place with collection.
Massachusetts rules
https://massgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/Rules-Crazy-4-Poker-10-08-2020.pdf
say
3) If the dealer’s highest ranking four-card Poker hand:
(i) Is ranked lower than a king, the dealer shall return each player’s Ante Wager and pay
out the Play and Super Bonus Wagers made by the player in accordance with the
payout odds in Section 10(a) and (b). The player’s Super Bonus Wager shall be
returned if the player’s winning hand is not a straight or better.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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September 7th, 2023 at 10:20:44 AM permalink
How is this rule different than the conventional set of rules?
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Wizard
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Wizard
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September 7th, 2023 at 4:16:49 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

How is this rule different than the conventional set of rules?
link to original post



Conventional rules don't have a rake.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
charliepatrick
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September 8th, 2023 at 4:08:28 PM permalink
The UK rules seem fairly clear, the Super Bonus would push,

Currently the website is down, so I looked at the google cache of https://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/pokercrazy4.html
Quote:

( https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:d37u6BRS7l0J:https://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/pokercrazy4.html&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-d )
The Dealer qualifies with a King High or better, but if they do not qualify, the Play wager is paid even money and the Ante wager is returned (“push”).

If the Dealer does qualify, their hand is compared to each player’s hand in turn. If the Player’s hand is better, both the Ante and Play wagers are paid even money. However, if the Dealer’s hand is better, then both wagers are lost to the house.

The Super Bonus wager wins if the player’s hand contains at least a straight, regardless of the Dealer’s hand or whether it qualifies. The best Crazy 4 Poker hand is “Four of a kind”. For this bonus, four Aces pays 200-1 whilst any other four of a kind pays 30-1. The odds descend to even money being paid out for a straight.

If the player has less than a Straight, their Super Bonus wager does not necessarily lose. If the player has a better hand or ties with the Dealer, regardless of whether the Dealer qualifies, the Super Bonus will push. It only loses if the dealer qualifies with a hand that is better than the Player’s.



Note there is a different game "Four Card Poker" ( https://www.casinocitytimes.com/elliot-frome/article/four-card-poker-part-one-10643 ) (I'm currently unable to reach the shufflemaster's site for more details.)
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