Poll

12 votes (26.08%)
4 votes (8.69%)
5 votes (10.86%)
4 votes (8.69%)
5 votes (10.86%)
4 votes (8.69%)
5 votes (10.86%)
6 votes (13.04%)
17 votes (36.95%)
22 votes (47.82%)

46 members have voted

odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 15th, 2020 at 6:54:06 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Many recreational players LIKE variance. I submit that is why side bets are so popular. This video will be targeted towards recreational players.

However, I have thought about introducing a statistic that factors in variance. Maybe house edge * standard deviation, but that is another topic. For this video, I will bring up variance tangentially, but it won't affect the ranking.

you anticipated what I would want factored

you may be proving there can't be just one list, but different lists 'depending'
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Mosca
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odiousgambit
April 15th, 2020 at 7:39:54 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Many recreational players LIKE variance. I submit that is why side bets are so popular. This video will be targeted towards recreational players.

However, I have thought about introducing a statistic that factors in variance. Maybe house edge * standard deviation, but that is another topic. For this video, I will bring up variance tangentially, but it won't affect the ranking.



Variance IS recreational! For a casual player, the worst thing a game can be is boring. Im willing to pay more for the faster heartbeat.
NO KILL I
paolalopez118
paolalopez118
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April 15th, 2020 at 7:41:44 AM permalink
I play a lot of Blackjack and Video poker, I find this published table very interesting.
Joeman
Joeman
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April 15th, 2020 at 7:54:16 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I am also making an article about this. In doing so, I realized that if I have Spanish 21 in there, I should also include Free Bet and BJ Switch. Adding those, we now have a top 12 list:

Rank Game Rules House edge Element of Risk
1 Blackjack 2d, S17, DAS 0.26% 0.00%
2 Craps 345x 0.27% 0.27%
3 Spanish 21 H17, DDD 0.42% 0.00%
4 Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em Ante 2.19% 0.53%
5 Video poker 9-6 Jacks 0.54% 0.54%
6 Blackjack Switch H17, 6d 0.58% 0.00%
7 Free Bet Blackjack 1.04% 0.00%
8 Baccarat Banker 1.06% 1.06%
9 Crazy 4 Poker 3.42% 1.09%
10 Roulette French rule 1.35% 1.35%
11 Mississippi Stud 4.91% 1.37%
12 High Card Flush 2.64% 1.54%


Wiz, it looks like you lost the EoR for a few of these.

ETA -- If your article is geared towards the recreational gambler, you may want to mention the differences of the difficulty in applying basic strategy to the games on your list. Anyone can plop down at the bac table and bet 'banker' or 'black' on an en prison roulette game and get the minimum house edge/EoR without knowing anything about strategy. However, if you have never played VP before and don't know proper strategies, you won't get near its minimum house edge.

Maybe you could add a 'strategy rank' column. If you don't want to supply a subjective rank, you could show the number of 'rules' you have to follow for proper basic strategy. E.g. baccarat would get a 1 since the only BS rule is "bet on banker." VP (JoB) would get a 36.
Last edited by: Joeman on Apr 15, 2020
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gordonm888
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April 15th, 2020 at 9:51:16 AM permalink
It is hard to know which games to choose as eligible for the list.

Texas Holdem Bonus has an HE of 2.037% with a low EOR of 0.543%. But the strategy rules for betting on the Turn and River that produce those levels of edge and risk are unknown - or at least not published on WOO.

The perfect strategy rules for some bets on some games have never been published - like the turn bet on UTH.
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dcschwar77
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April 15th, 2020 at 10:13:18 AM permalink
They sell the game as being at 1.60. Either way it is lower than regular PGP, but banking allows it to lower the edge for the standard game.
Mosca
Mosca
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April 15th, 2020 at 10:25:53 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman


ETA -- If your article is geared towards the recreational gambler, you may want to mention the differences of the difficulty in applying basic strategy to the games on your list. Anyone can plop down at the bac table and bet 'banker' or 'black' on an en prison roulette game and get the minimum house edge/EoR without knowing anything about strategy. However, if you have never played VP before and don't know proper strategies, you won't get near its minimum house edge.

Maybe you could add a 'strategy rank' column. If you don't want to supply a subjective rank, you could show the number of 'rules' you have to follow for proper basic strategy. E.g. baccarat would get a 1 since the only BS rule is "bet on banker." VP (JoB) would get a 36.



Good point. I play games where its easy to get to the second decision point. I work hard enough at my job, if I wanted to make money Id go to work instead. So anything that is simple and close to fair will do. Im not going to memorize a decision table for a percent or two of HE/EoR.

Keep in mind, too, that casual gamblers are only in the casino a few times a year. I ran into this learning Pai Gow tiles. I bought a set, learned to play, and had a blast. The next time I played it was over a year later, and I remembered very little.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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Mosca
April 15th, 2020 at 12:31:15 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Variance IS recreational! For a casual player, the worst thing a game can be is boring. Im willing to pay more for the faster heartbeat.



Players play for different motives. Some like just a little volatility, to keep it interesting, but are really there just for the casino ambiance. I suspect pai gow poker players, especially face up, are like that.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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April 15th, 2020 at 12:33:22 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Texas Holdem Bonus has an HE of 2.037% with a low EOR of 0.543%.



Dang there is another one I forgot. That currently has 11 placements in Vegas.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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April 15th, 2020 at 12:36:16 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

I hope the final result will reflect what games are available nationwide including the Northeast, Midwest and South. I've already questioned the placements of Spanish 21. Blackjack Switch seems to have disappeared in Biloxi and Free Bet BJ hasn't appeared yet. Guess I'm up to 4 cents now.



To be perfectly honest with you, I haven't been to a casino in the mid-west or south in about 15 years.

This combined with other points are making me think of splitting this into two lists:

1. Classic games
2. New games

I'm not sure where to draw the line. I tough one is Spanish 21, which has been around for about 25 years, but still doesn't feel "classic" to me.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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