Poll

12 votes (26.08%)
4 votes (8.69%)
5 votes (10.86%)
4 votes (8.69%)
5 votes (10.86%)
4 votes (8.69%)
5 votes (10.86%)
6 votes (13.04%)
17 votes (36.95%)
22 votes (47.82%)

46 members have voted

dcschwar77
dcschwar77
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April 14th, 2020 at 8:59:45 AM permalink
You may also want to factor in the prevalence of Face Up Pai Gow, which has a lower edge (1.60%) but does not allow for banking. At least in LV, most of the games at low limits are Face Up, and you see less and less of the standard game all the time.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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April 14th, 2020 at 10:10:39 AM permalink
Well, I have posted in previous months about why I think that Element of Risk is a misleading metric. You and I just have a professional difference of opinion on this- (no problem -I have enormous respect for you) - and I realize now that you are ordering your list by Element of Risk. So, you might expect me to respectfully have some problems with the list.

I confess - I love Pai Gow Poker. Pai Gow Poker has the unusual quality of being a slower game that results in lower average losses per hour of play. Games like UTH and Miss Stud require a large bankroll to play for an extended period of time.

Look at it this way. A player walks into the casino with, say, a bankroll of 20 X or 40X the ante of a table game. Taking into account differences in hands per hour between games, what is the median time to ruin? OR, what is the chance of playing for 3 hours without losing your 20X or 40X bankroll?. When judged by this metric, I imagine that games like PGP and High Card Flush are significantly better than Miss Stud, UTH and Crazy 4 - and quite a bit better than most VP.

Of course, your title "Ten Best Casino Games" over-reaches -it promises more than it delivers. PaigowDan would have reminded you that some games have a fun factor and that people are paying to have fun. And your "Ten Best" ranking doesn't seem to include that in its definition of "Best." Most of us would agree that 3CP is a dull game. I found Spanish 21 to be a bit more fun than BJ, which many players describe as a "grind." "Making decisions" and "variety of play" and "variety of outcomes" seem to be factors that game designers consider when they try to develop a game that is fun.

I know retirees that go into a casino 3-5 times a week and play PGP for 4 or more hours as a pasttime - they enjoy the pace and the social environment, together with the mental challenge and the slower loss rate of money. It seems some people (not me personally) play craps or roulette the same way. Even High Card Flush. However, I imagine that very few retirees go into a casino multiple times a week, every week, to play UTH or Miss Stud for extended periods. Those are high drama games that are better suited for the occasional gambler with deep pockets.

Here's a (different) metric - by observation, at midnight or 2 a.m. in a casino, what games tend to have very crowded tables? What games do you have to wait to play? (My experience: PGP, UTH, High Card Flush and to a lesser degree MissStud, and Crazy 4 poker. YMMV. Seats at low minimum BJ games are also hard to find. Not sure about VP, craps, roulette or baccarat.) Using this metric, Wild 5 Poker (with only a very few placements) may be the Best Casino game.

These kind of judgments may not be your cup of tea. You have a right to be proud of the metric you created - Element of Risk -and perhaps this video has the underlying purpose of advertising your EOR metric. But you did ask for comments and I have tried to think about your list and fairly state some ideas with the hope that you consider moving out of your comfort zone on this or a future project. Or at least make a brief disclaimer in your video about what you are not considering when you say "Ten Best Casino Games."
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
DJTeddyBear
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IndyJeffrey
April 14th, 2020 at 10:53:00 AM permalink
These two comments are contradictory.

Quote: Wizard

... and assume the gambler is comfortable with high-limit tables.

Quote: Wizard

This video will be targeted towards recreational players.

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Dobrij
Dobrij
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April 14th, 2020 at 2:17:45 PM permalink
Hello!
I apologize if I again say stupidity if the question is only to the US market; These are the games that have the least advantage over casinos in Europe, by optimal gambler house edge:


~0,5% Russian/Lunar Poker (Complete rules; 1 Box):
~0,6% 6 Card Poker (5+1)+1 (1 Box):
~1,2% Online slot Thrones Of Persia (Version 98,83% RTP):
~1,9% Baseland ~2000-2007year's production IGT slots (Where <98% RTP):
Last edited by: Dobrij on Apr 14, 2020
Dalmatian
Dalmatian
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April 14th, 2020 at 11:22:52 PM permalink
Is Russian Lunar poker beatable?
Wizard
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Wizard
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YoyomamaTigerWu
April 15th, 2020 at 4:06:23 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

I realize I'm in the minority, but I challenge the omission of Pai Gow. I bank all the time when I play. Even if you never bank it's still one of the best games oddswise, no?



Using my basic strategy, the house edge is 1.98% not banking. That doesn't get it into the top 10 or 12. If we factored in hands per hour I'm sure it would be a top ten game in terms of expected loss per hour. But I'm not doing it that way.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 15th, 2020 at 4:08:59 AM permalink
Quote: dcschwar77

You may also want to factor in the prevalence of Face Up Pai Gow, which has a lower edge (1.60%) but does not allow for banking. At least in LV, most of the games at low limits are Face Up, and you see less and less of the standard game all the time.



I get a house edge of 1.81%.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 15th, 2020 at 4:13:00 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Well, I have posted in previous months about why I think that Element of Risk is a misleading metric...



Those are all very good points. I'm sure you know what I would say in response to them.

I can at least retitle the article/video the Ten Best BETS in the casino. I'll explain up front how I measure that.

As I mentioned before, some gamblers like volatility. I will at least address as I go which games tend to be good at bankroll longevity, whether by low hands per hour or low variance.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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Yoyomama
April 15th, 2020 at 4:13:57 AM permalink
I am also making an article about this. In doing so, I realized that if I have Spanish 21 in there, I should also include Free Bet and BJ Switch. Adding those, we now have a top 12 list:

Rank Game Rules House edge Element of Risk
1 Blackjack 2d, S17, DAS 0.26% 0.00%
2 Craps 345x 0.27% 0.27%
3 Spanish 21 H17, DDD 0.42% 0.00%
4 Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em Ante 2.19% 0.53%
5 Video poker 9-6 Jacks 0.54% 0.54%
6 Blackjack Switch H17, 6d 0.58% 0.00%
7 Free Bet Blackjack 1.04% 0.00%
8 Baccarat Banker 1.06% 1.06%
9 Crazy 4 Poker 3.42% 1.09%
10 Roulette French rule 1.35% 1.35%
11 Mississippi Stud 4.91% 1.37%
12 High Card Flush 2.64% 1.54%
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DeMango
DeMango
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April 15th, 2020 at 6:51:24 AM permalink
I hope the final result will reflect what games are available nationwide including the Northeast, Midwest and South. I've already questioned the placements of Spanish 21. Blackjack Switch seems to have disappeared in Biloxi and Free Bet BJ hasn't appeared yet. Guess I'm up to 4 cents now.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.

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