gordonm888
gordonm888
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April 23rd, 2018 at 1:14:02 PM permalink
I visited Harrahs Cherokee Casino in NC on several occasions during the past 2 weeks, and I checked out all of their table games on multiple occasions. I saw this at their Mississippi Stud Tables:

1. "Payouts limited to $50,000" This statement was immediately below the payout tables.
2. Royal Flush payout was 800 (has standardly been 500)
3. The table limits were $10 - $25, or during busy periods the limits on some tables were raised to $15 - $25.
4. The shuffler dealt the community cards 1st (a packet of 3 cards), then the players cards (packets of 2 cards)
5. When decks were changed out there was a noticeable stoppage of play while the used decks were placed in special cases and marked with information on date and time of usage. Presumably they were to be shipped to a forensics facility and examined for signs of being marked or altered.

The most significant change, IMO, is that payoff is capped at $50,000. Given the table limits, at no time will a player's royal flush actually be paid off at 800-1 if they use the optimum betting strategy, as posted on WOO. Indeed, if the unit bet size is $15 or higher, a royal flush will always be paid off at less than the 500-1 payout that is reported on the WOO payout tables.

The standard house edge on Mississippi Stud is 4.9149%. However, with the payout limited to $50,000 and the higher Royal Flush payout, here is the house edge for Mississippi Stud as a function of bet size:

Unit Bet
House Edge
$10
4.761%
$15
5.018%
$20
5.146%
$25
5.223%
$50
5.377%


At Unit Bets above $60 (if they are allowed) the $50,000 payout cap will reduce the effective payouts on straight flushes as well. I haven't calculated those cases, because I don't know if the same payout cap would be operative at tables with higher limits.

I've checked the WOO basic strategy rules. For unit bets of $50 or less, I don't believe the existence of this payout cap will require a change in betting strategy.

Can others confirm whether the Mississippi Stud payout rules I've just mentioned are being used elsewhere? Are they only on placements with the new shufflers that deal the community cards first? Are they specific to Indian casinos or in use more widely? Any max table limits >$25 ?
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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Romes
April 23rd, 2018 at 1:18:37 PM permalink
It's common to see these "$50,000 aggregate" payout signs on these tables.
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Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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April 23rd, 2018 at 1:21:55 PM permalink
I've never seen the 800 to 1 payout for a royal,but many places have a max payout of 25k and I've even seen a max payout of 15k.
Are you sure it was was Mississippi stud and not Cajun Stud ,its basically the same game and it has 5 or 6 different paytables.
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Wizard
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April 23rd, 2018 at 1:34:58 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Can others confirm whether the Mississippi Stud payout rules I've just mentioned are being used elsewhere? Are they only on placements with the new shufflers that deal the community cards first? Are they specific to Indian casinos or in use more widely? Any max table limits >$25 ?



I too would like to hear a confirmation on that. These aggregate wins, which I hate, are, sadly, pretty common. Most of these big corporations should have no difficulty paying out a 50K to 80K jackpot.
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gordonm888
gordonm888
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ChumpChange
April 23rd, 2018 at 1:36:52 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

It's common to see these "$50,000 aggregate" payout signs on these tables.



You have used the word "aggregate." Does "aggregate" mean that the aggregate payout to all players at the table is limited? Or that the payout to any single player is limited?

Mississippi Stud is an unusual case because of its bet structure and payout table. A "Payout limited to $50,000" at a $15 minimum table means that, even at minimum table stakes, the posted payout for royal flushes will never be given.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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April 23rd, 2018 at 1:39:32 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Are you sure it was was Mississippi stud and not Cajun Stud ,its basically the same game and it has 5 or 6 different paytables.



100% certain it was Mississippi Stud. I played at these tables on two different weekends.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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April 23rd, 2018 at 2:03:50 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

You have used the word "aggregate." Does "aggregate" mean that the aggregate payout to all players at the table is limited? Or that the payout to any single player is limited?

Mississippi Stud is an unusual case because of its bet structure and payout table. A "Payout limited to $50,000" at a $15 minimum table means that, even at minimum table stakes, the posted payout for royal flushes will never be given.


I have seen some places say aggregate per player,and some just say aggregate.
You are correct though as far as if a player follows proper basic strategy,he will ve shorted on the royal payout depending on table mininmum.
I always thought this was deceptive.
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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April 23rd, 2018 at 2:28:35 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

You have used the word "aggregate." Does "aggregate" mean that the aggregate payout to all players at the table is limited? Or that the payout to any single player is limited?

Mississippi Stud is an unusual case because of its bet structure and payout table. A "Payout limited to $50,000" at a $15 minimum table means that, even at minimum table stakes, the posted payout for royal flushes will never be given.


I would think all are per player. Could you imagine this scenario:

Player 1 betting $100 gets dealt A, K of spades. The board comes Q, J, 10 spades. Player one gets the max $50,000 for his royal. Player 2's cards are revealed to be 9, 8 spades for a straight flush and gets nothing!
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
gordonm888
gordonm888
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April 23rd, 2018 at 2:32:43 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

I have seen some places say aggregate per player,and some just say aggregate.
You are correct though as far as if a player follows proper basic strategy,he will ve shorted on the royal payout depending on table minimum.
I always thought this was deceptive.



Well, in this specific case they did not use the word aggregate. It was printed on the felt as well as displayed on the digital sign and said "Payout limited to $50,000"

I guess the payout table can be justified because if a player bet the minimum stakes, and then bet 1x on every street and made a Royal they would actually get paid off at the rate shown on the table.

I have never paid much attention to these posted payout limits because they never seemed to "intercept my event horizon." But in Miss Stud, the Royal Flush payout represents a return of >0.6% and sometimes even the casual player at min table stakes cannot realize the House Edge that is quoted on the WOO site.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
FCBLComish
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April 25th, 2018 at 11:58:42 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

You have used the word "aggregate." Does "aggregate" mean that the aggregate payout to all players at the table is limited? Or that the payout to any single player is limited?

Mississippi Stud is an unusual case because of its bet structure and payout table. A "Payout limited to $50,000" at a $15 minimum table means that, even at minimum table stakes, the posted payout for royal flushes will never be given.



In Nevada, a minimum bet must pay full odds. If the table minimum is $5, 800:1 will be $40,000. I would be very interested to see what happens at a $10 or $15 table with that situation.
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