Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
  • Threads: 43
  • Posts: 1740
January 16th, 2018 at 2:29:29 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Their website still has Dealer Bluff as of today: Thunder Valley Table Games (see pull down menu)...I would guess it has been at TV for 3+ years now.


I thought it was gone,my mistake.
I believe it was 2008 or 2009 when I first saw it.
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 103
  • Posts: 6016
January 16th, 2018 at 2:43:26 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

But aren't you getting BETTER information with knowing the dealers hand (plus all the other cards since they're all face up)? For example, say the dealer still had their hand down and you saw all other hands on the table face up. You'd think, great, with all this info I can skillfully play better. Well, turn the dealers hand up, and that's the most info/skill you could play with?



Of course it's better info. At the cost of pushing when dealer has ace high Pai gow. The new game is like baccarat, absolutely zero skill. I prefer the regular game where I have at least a minimum of thinking to do. You can't possibly think you have an advantage with the new game? It is just a much more clearly defined house edge as the player is reduced to nothing more than a card turner-over.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5988
January 16th, 2018 at 5:23:00 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Of course it's better info. At the cost of pushing when dealer has ace high Pai gow. The new game is like baccarat, absolutely zero skill. I prefer the regular game where I have at least a minimum of thinking to do. You can't possibly think you have an advantage with the new game? It is just a much more clearly defined house edge as the player is reduced to nothing more than a card turner-over.



True, but once you have your house way memorized you are not going to turn from that really.

My house way is split two pair with a K when pairs add up to 9 or less, with an A when pairs add up to 17 or less, follow the exception rule for straights and flushes (play a high pair with an Ace rather than a straight or flush). It's the same.

Now you can vary your technique based on a different house way and collusion. That to me is when the "skill" comes in and makes regular PGP fun to play.

I think Face-up is a great way to bring new players into the game as well because they don't have to think about strategy but learn the strategy as they play.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
  • Threads: 119
  • Posts: 3667
January 16th, 2018 at 5:53:19 PM permalink
I think I'd rather play a game when the dealer getting a K high pai gow is an automatic loss, and you can see how the dealer sets their hand. Then you offer a 20-1 K high pai gow insurance bet.

Should I get a patent?

EDIT - 4% house edge is too high. Maybe Q high pai gow is an automatic loss, and there's a 5% commission, and you can see how dealer sets their hand.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 5412
January 17th, 2018 at 8:24:58 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Of course it's better info. At the cost of pushing when dealer has ace high Pai gow. The new game is like baccarat, absolutely zero skill. I prefer the regular game where I have at least a minimum of thinking to do. You can't possibly think you have an advantage with the new game? It is just a much more clearly defined house edge as the player is reduced to nothing more than a card turner-over.

Didn't they say above that the HE was only like 1.4% or something? Isn't this along a better reason to play over the 2.7% HE of regular pai gow poker? If I ever play Pai Gow Poker, I do it for cheap, for the drinks, and to appease the other friends I'm with. I'm on auto pilot, making the right play most of the time and simply asking the dealer the rest of the time... doesn't seem to be much skill involved in the game either way, so I'd rather play the lower house edge.

If you want a skill game where you can feel better over your table mates and think, just play blackjack? They'll make you feel very skillful lol.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 103
  • Posts: 6016
January 17th, 2018 at 11:34:09 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Didn't they say above that the HE was only like 1.4% or something? Isn't this along a better reason to play over the 2.7% HE of regular pai gow poker? If I ever play Pai Gow Poker, I do it for cheap, for the drinks, and to appease the other friends I'm with. I'm on auto pilot, making the right play most of the time and simply asking the dealer the rest of the time... doesn't seem to be much skill involved in the game either way, so I'd rather play the lower house edge.

If you want a skill game where you can feel better over your table mates and think, just play blackjack? They'll make you feel very skillful lol.



I'm not an AP, I play for fun. Comps sometimes add to the fun. And over the course of my playing time, dealer errors have moved the EV needle substantially closer to even from the 2.7% you list. Not frequently, but I've played it at a positive EV occasionally. I used to play BJ, and was a fake AP, meaning I did count cards and altered my bets, but not even close to being funded appropriately. I now find BJ to be about as boring a casino game as there is. But to each his own.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 5412
January 17th, 2018 at 2:03:04 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I'm not an AP, I play for fun. Comps sometimes add to the fun. And over the course of my playing time, dealer errors have moved the EV needle substantially closer to even from the 2.7% you list. Not frequently, but I've played it at a positive EV occasionally. I used to play BJ, and was a fake AP, meaning I did count cards and altered my bets, but not even close to being funded appropriately. I now find BJ to be about as boring a casino game as there is. But to each his own.

So wouldn't the dealer be setting their hand the EXACT same way (maybe other than an ace high adjustment)? So wouldn't this also be applicable to the same dealer mistakes, and starting only at like 1.4% instead of 2.7%? I do agree though, at the end of the day it's whatever you're specifically into as far as -EV games.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 549
January 17th, 2018 at 2:10:40 PM permalink
No field trial required. The game is already approved. It has been at Sunset Station since 1/2/18. By the way, the $1 progressive is at $316,000 right now....
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1248
  • Posts: 20591
Thanks for this post from:
JWonser
January 17th, 2018 at 8:24:28 PM permalink
I will write up a page soon but just did a simulation on Face Up Pai Gow Poker. For the base game I get a house edge of 1.81%. For the side bet I get a house edge of 9.38%.

Here is are details on the main bet:

dealer ace high pai gow= 9.36%
wins= 24.79%
losses= 26.59%
pushes= 39.26%


Side bet:

Both ace high pai gow= 0.87%
Dealer ace high pai gow with joker= 0.41%
Dealer ace high pai gow without joker= 8.08%
Loss 90.64%
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5988
January 18th, 2018 at 12:04:02 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I will write up a page soon but just did a simulation on Face Up Pai Gow Poker. For the base game I get a house edge of 1.81%. For the side bet I get a house edge of 9.38%.

Here is are details on the main bet:

dealer ace high pai gow= 9.36%
wins= 24.79%
losses= 26.59%
pushes= 39.26%


Side bet:

Both ace high pai gow= 0.87%
Dealer ace high pai gow with joker= 0.41%
Dealer ace high pai gow without joker= 8.08%
Loss 90.64%



The site says it's 1.60%. I'm going to head over to Thunder Valley tomorrow or Saturday and ask them about their house way which may help you run your simulation a bit better. Mind you the NYNY house way might be different and I would assume you would follow the house way that you have published at WoO for MGM Grand.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

  • Jump to: