New: Pass-odds and sister place

Have been working on this new scheme and finally have reached the point to recommend this multiple bet scheme that actually seems to work very well, thusfar I might add, and have been winning with it the latest several sessions. Much more fun to play with multiple bets as active players already know. Any questions or comments let me know.

*Start the new shooter with $5 pass and then after the point is established then $10 odds and place bet the sister number at $10,12. So if the point is 5, place the 9 at $10. WAIT for a hit, before any furthur bets, on either the pass-odds bet or the sister place bet. If get a hit, then continue to place bet the next box number rolled and its sister number until all the box numbers are covered. $600 session bankroll.

Eh. Seems okay, but would rather just make a come bet with odds on the first roll after the establishing roll, then add another come/odds after I get an off-and-on.

Not a fan of come-odds bets, been there and done that even with its low HA.. The two big negatives, losing the come bet on craps numbers before it travels, and losing the come base bets on a natural 7 on the come out which is quite common. The ole 3 point molly, or your variation, is the common recommended play, but seldom played by experienced players, there just has to be a better scheme than that.

Update: Continuing to play my pass-odds and sister place scheme with good results spelled out above. Day session wins have been in the $100 to $400 range, with all winnning sessions. Have only played 4 day sessions to date for about 18 hrs of casino play using this exact scheme, after experimenting with several different versions, and do like this one the best. The latest session it was in the negative for several hrs, before getting in the positive. The other sessions it was in the positive the vast majority of time which is more fun.

Now off again for hopefully another payday: $5 pass with $10 odds and place the sister number of the point at $10,12.
Wait for a hit on either of these two bets before making any furthur bets. IF get a hit, then start placing the latest number rolled and its sister, until get all box numbers covered with pass-odds and place bets. No pressing and no regressing, just level bets. $600 session bankroll.

Hmm. Not denigrating your system, but lets see what would happen if you just made pass-come bets:

-Come out roll, point established. Take odds and make a $5 come bet.
-If seven out, lose $15 pass line and make $5 on the come, so net $10 loss.
-If point number, come travels to point, take $10 odds.
-If seven out, lose both bets, for a total of $30 loss.
-If any number hits, get paid between $17-$25.
-Make another come bet if wished.

So after the come out roll you are actually exposed *more* by making the sister place bet, and you won't get paid as much. I didn't count craps rolls.

Like I said, fine method, but anything that doesn't pay me the best odds possible is probably not a system I would care to use. But that's just my personal preference.

Teddy: If you are an active craps player, willing to bet that you will eventually grow weary of come betting, it took me a couple of years to give it up.

Your method of betting is conservative -- which I like. You are not spreadout thin from the start like I see very frequently. There is some patience involved. It doesn't seem that you need "action" all over unless the shooter demonstrates holding onto the dice for more that a handful of rolls. Your drop of $600 is very adequate to do battle and grind some sessions out if necessary. I would like to know how you handle a "hot" roll. Do you press all of your line bets or pass line bets? Do you just keep everything the same no matter how long the shooter has been throwing? Your method has to somehow automatically recognize that this shooter is offering an opportunity to score big -- strike while the iron is hot so to speak.

I play similar to Teddys. I play $25 pass w/max odds (3-4-5 table). I then play the come 2 more times both at $25 w/max odds. I am not fully exposed until the shooter hits their first 3 different box numbers. After that it is a waiting game. If a come bet comes down I place another come bet. So at most I will have 3 numbers covered. After the shooter hits 5 pass/come bets, I double my bets. Another 5 double again and so forth. My immediate goals per shooter is of course to get the first point/come bet come home so at least I do not get punished with the worse case. The next goal is to have 3 pass/come bets come home, and at that point I cannot loose money on this shooter -- unless they throw a whole bunch of crap on a come out roll. I count using the chips on how much numbers come home for me using different colors for the various pressed bets. When/if a shooter hits 7 numbers, I cash out even if I am still not even with my drop -- it rarely happens that I am still down, but it does once in a while when the table is cold then someone becomes the hero and gets on a good roll. Then on to the next casino.

I like my method, because it is conservative in the beginning. If someone 2 shakes I don't get really punished, because to me if you are going to be bad ... be bad quickly. My method also has automatic triggers to press my bets and automatic triggers to leave the table on the plus side (hopefully). My last trip about 2 weeks ago, I was down to just under $500 and someone rolls 9 numbers for me (well not specifically for me) and I walked off the table still down $250, but pretty glad to escape with that small loss.

Quote: dwm

Teddy: If you are an active craps player, willing to bet that you will eventually grow weary of come betting, it took me a couple of years to give it up.

Really? I think there's something very compelling about having the bases loaded and going off-and-on every roll. It doesn't happen very often, but when it does it's memorable.

I just play with level bets, overall it seems to do better than pressing. I play 4-6 times a week for the latest several years, so believe me I have tried just about every conceivable do side betting scheme. This latest one has been a consistent winner thusfar.

A big session bankroll is very important as this is a volatile game as we know as most are underfunded for their betting amounts, and starting out with only 2 bets then spreading out gradually with level bets is a conservative winning scheme most sessions. I am not really striving for high risk big wins with frequent big losses, prefer steady conservative $100-$200 wins.

4-6 times a week! I can see why you would play very conservatively and not press any bets. I am from Hawaii where is no form of gambling of any kind -- lotto, scratch tickets, racing, sports betting, etc. I make it out to Vegas 4-6 times a year and stay 4 nights each time. I will press my bets as dictated by my style/method. I need to get what I can when the table turns "hot". When I get home I will be dealing with my withdrawal symptoms. If I lived in Vegas, I may have the same mind set of not trying to risk winning big by shooting for the moon.

Quote: dwm

I just play with level bets, overall it seems to do better than pressing. I play 4-6 times a week for the latest several years, so believe me I have tried just about every conceivable do side betting scheme. This latest one has been a consistent winner thusfar.

Don't kid yourself that you will be a winner in the long run, though. Every bet except the odds bet on a crap table has a negative expectation. You cannot escape that.

A LOT of betting "systems" involve increasing your bets when "hot", or starting out by "balancing" some bets against another, like your "sister" place bet system. The simple fact is that the more you bet, the more you will lose. The best "system", aside from not playing at all, would be to make one minimum pass line bet, and await results. This will result in the minimum possible loss, and EVERY SINGLE OTHER METHOD OF PLAYING WILL LOSE MORE.

Disappointing, no fun, and wet-blanket, but inescapable.

Quote: mkl654321

... The best "system", aside from not playing at all, would be to make one minimum pass line bet, and await results. This will result in the minimum possible loss, and EVERY SINGLE OTHER METHOD OF PLAYING WILL LOSE MORE.

Disappointing, no fun, and wet-blanket, but inescapable.

Well, I would argue that the BEST bet would be to find some dipstick playing the pass line with no odds, and ask if you can put your bet down as his odds.

Quote: I808

4-6 times a week! I can see why you would play very conservatively and not press any bets. I am from Hawaii where is no form of gambling of any kind -- lotto, scratch tickets, racing, sports betting, etc. I make it out to Vegas 4-6 times a year and stay 4 nights each time. I will press my bets as dictated by my style/method. I need to get what I can when the table turns "hot". When I get home I will be dealing with my withdrawal symptoms. If I lived in Vegas, I may have the same mind set of not trying to risk winning big by shooting for the moon.

I808, do you stay at the downtown Boyd properties (Cal, Main St., Fremont)? I'm curious how their HI junket system works...

Quote: teddys

I808, do you stay at the downtown Boyd properties (Cal, Main St., Fremont)? I'm curious how their HI junket system works...

I have not stayed at a downtown property in 15 years. I have had offers that I have taken up at the Golden Nugget. But I just check in the room get my offer (one time it was 3 - $100 Macy's Gift Cards and another was $300 in promo chips play to you loose them). I never stayed in the room though usually I gave them to work friends that decided to come to Vegas with us and they didn't have rooms or at least didn't want to pay for them. When I do did get offers at the Golden Nugget we did gamble there one session per night offered. At that point since we were in downtown we would play at Main Street -- 20x odds $5 pass $100 odds. Main Street has some extra long tables. Although the odds are great at Main Street, I realize that we haven't gone there this year. I think Main Street has the best vallet service in downtown -- at least there is someone always there manning the booth.

Boyd gaming is a huge lobbyist in Hawaii. From what I hear they are the financial backing for groups opposing gambing of any kind. Since Hawaii residents go to Vegas by the thousands daily, they want to keep gambling out of Hawaii so that us Hawaiians keep coming back to what we affectionately call the "ninth island" -- VEGAS. Our very own Hawaiian Airlines has pretty much 3 flight a day direct to Vegas. Of course you can take any number of airlines that will get you to Vegas.

The most common travel agency that caters to the Vegas crowd is Vacations Hawaii. I never used them, but I believe they charter flights to Vegas. I see adds in the paper ranging from $499 - $599 for a 5 day 4 night stay at the Cal, Main Street or some other downtown property. Price included air fare, hotel, some shuttle tickets, and food coupons. I am not sure if there are any restrictions on the dates, but since I do not use them I am not that curious to call.

People from Hawaii love Vegas. We have all kinds of reasons to travel there. I know of couple of guys that play in annual softball tournaments. Our youth sports leagues always finds tournaments to participate in and of course the adults/coaches can play at night after the games. For myself, I believe the ASHRAE convention will be held in Vegas in January that I will attend. My friend that usually goes with me to Vegas 4 times a year has a mortgage convention later on this year. I may try and sneak away from the wife to get there. My secretary -- she is close to retiring -- bought a townhouse near the strip for $86K if I recall the price correctly. Her husband is a retired Hawaiian Airlines mechanic. His retirement perk is that he and his wife fly free and first class (if availabel). These past few months they go every other weekend. Yup people from Hawaii will find any reason to go to Vegas.

Sorry for the long post. I usually don't find myself in downtown. I have stayed at the Palazzo since it opened up and prior to that it was the Venetian for the past 7 years. Prior to that I stayed at mostly Harrahs properties -- Rio or Paris. When I do go to downtown I will pretty much run into someone I know from back home.

Have made one good enhancement, meaning anytime a 6 or 8 is rolled post point even if have not got a hit yet go ahead and place the 6 AND 8. Last night a good $250 win. So will attempt to summarize as easily as possible:

Start with $5 pass and then double odds and place the sister number at $10,12 on the first point of the shooter. Wait for a hit then start placing the number just rolled and the sister at $10,12 bets, EXCEPTION: if a 6 or 8 is rolled post point and even if no hits yet, go ahead and place the 6 and 8 at $12 each. Have increased the session bankroll to $700 for a little extra cushion. The end for now.

The enhancement per above did NOT work well last night(have to report the good with the bad) and had a big session loss of $640, after winning 10 consecutive sessions. Net win for these 11 sessions still a respectable total of +$1250. Will stick with the more conservative version for now after a good thumping last session, do not want to get in a cycle of big wins and big losses(high risk): So the more conservative scheme is as follows and works better on the often choppy tables:

*$5 pass and then $10 odds and place the sister at $10,12 to start the new shooter. No furthur bets until get a hit on either of these two bets. IF get a hit, then start placing the next box number rolled and its sister at $10,12 bets and continue doing this until all the box numbers are covered by placing the latest box number rolled and its sister. Level bets, $600 session bankroll.

Returned to the original conservative version last night for a good $250 win spelled out in the above post. Do NOT get too many bets out there too quick, slow and easy is best for winning sessions, I need to learn "to leave well enough alone."

Saturday night had a scare, got down about $600 and decided to add another $100 so total buyin was $700. So even with $10,12 bets, now thinking in terms of $800 day session bankroll even for the conservative version. It DID recover and quit at +$30 in a marathon 10 hr session in which most do-siders had a losing day.

So here are the 7 day session results playing the following: $5 pass and $10 odds after the new shooter's first point is established and also place the sister number of the point at $10,12. Wait for a hit on one of these two bets. Then on the next roll start placing the latest number rolled and its sister until all box numbers are covered. Level bets, no pressing and no regressing.
Session 1: +$400
Session 2: +140
Session 3: +110
Session 4: +190
Session 5: +260
Session 6: +380
Session 7: +30
So very consistent wins thusfar, which is VERY difficult as active craps players know. That is why I am continuing to play it and recommend it to players who need a change in their betting scheme.

So you place the last number rolled, right after it is rolled? That's interesting; so it has to hit twice to get paid. Similar to a come bet. I've been doing come bet plus $10 odds right after the come out ($5+$10 on the line) and have been losing badly. But I don't think our systems are that different.

Not really all that similar at all if you look at all facets of my betting scheme, Teddy. Another good $260 win tonight, was in a range of -$350 to +350 today, and quit at the +260,

Had a -$760 for my first loss in 9 sessions using the above scheme and knew I was overdue for a loss, but still substantially profitable overall with it.

Have been working on a new scheme that initially I do like better although have played only one winning session with it thusfar. Have found that repeating box numbers often a good shooter qualifier for across betting.
*Start the new shooter with $5 pass and then $10 odds. Wait for repeating box numbers to be rolled after the point is established(making the point does NOT count as repeating box numbers), then place $52,54 across. If the point is made before repeating box numbers are rolled, then start all over on the next point sequence meaning repeating box numbers have to be rolled on the current point sequence before place betting across. Will advise as to furthur results.

Slower is better after having loss what I won the previous session with above , going back to the real slow but with larger bets which is slightly different than have listed in this thread.

$5 pass and $15,16 odds to start the new shooter and place the sister number of the point at $15,18. Wait for a hit on either of these two bets. Then place the next uncovered box number rolled and its sister. Again wait for a hit, then place the next uncovered box number rolled and its sister. Now will have all the box numbers covered, which does not happen often but does happen on the decent hands. Then continue with level place bets and the pass-odds bet for the remainder of the hand. $600-700 session bankroll.