TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
October 19th, 2015 at 9:22:32 AM permalink
Just a tale of new device I ran into a week or so ago installed in a BJ table.
This at Harrah's Cherokee in NC, second night there.
Sat down at BJ table, I think youz guys would say at third base, only spot open as someone got up and I sat down.
Red chip table. I buy in, proceed to play, and notice a strange ( to me ) 'thing' by my left elbow. There is a new 'thing' sticking out of the table. Appeared to be approx 10-12 in long, sticking out into the table, by about 4-5 in wide, sitting at the back of the table between the dealer and the discard tray. Was sticking up out of the table an inch or two in plastic rimmed hole that was lit with blue ( or ultraviolet ) light for a part of it. I should have taken a picture, but didn't. Anyway, the dealer took my cash, did the normal check with pit, and dropped my cash into the open plastic mouth of this 'thing'. I noticed that there was a digital display behind the 'mouth' of the 'thing' that was probably 4 in by 8 in of the total space.

I had to ask, what is that? Dealer responded, a new device we are doing a trial on, we've got one installed in each pit, we're the only casino in the country to have them, just put it in three days ago. It replaces the traditional money drop-box and counts the money going in, (that is close to a quote of what he said).i take any and everything the dealers tell me with a grain ( or two tablespoons ) of salt. I said cool, and we played. Started off great, too great in fact, eventually got my ass kicked, just as an aside ;-(

So we are still playing, a couple of hours later, some more people have come and gone from the table because the dealer is pulling 3 and 4 and 5 card 21s out of his butt when the players have larger bets out, splits and doubles, for 19 and twenty. Same old story.... An older asian lady sits down and buys in for like $800 in hundreds, another younger guy for a couple hundred in 20's after her but at the same 'break' in the action. I look at the device/thing as we start to play and there is a hundred dollar bill sticking out of it by my left elbow. I tell the dealer, you missed one. I thought that when he had dropped the hundreds into the mouth/slot of this new 'advanced Dropbox ' that one had missed the opening and was sitting there by my elbow ( which is, importantly, kind of out of his sight unless he leans way over the table and looks back to his right so he can see it). He looked at me with a question mark on his face. I repeated, you missed the opening with a bill, it's sitting there, pointing at the bill by my elbow. He leaned out over the table, saw the bill, grabbed the bill, and dropped the bill back into the gaping mouth of this experimental drop box, and proceeded to start to deal. I was watching the device, and lo and behold, the bill popped up from under the table and was again sitting by my elbow! I yelled, it's back!

The dealer grabbed it again, dropped, back up it pops (by my elbow and not really within easy sight of the dealer and it takes 4-5 seconds before it jumps back out). Dealer calls the pit boss over, he drops, it pops, drops again, it pops, calls for more help, they drop, it pops, call for more help, drop/pop, determine who brought this bill to the table. Drop, pop. Mechanic shows up with a key, unlocks the device and pulls it out of the table leaving a big 'hole' by my elbow, and walks away. I take a peek inside the hole and see a sticker that says ApexGaming.com, or at least that is what I wrote down (yes, I was drinking, but not that much, relatively speaking, you have to buy your drinks in NC)

To try make a really long story a bit shorter, Lots of people got involved, each one wanted to drop the bill into the slot, the bill popped up in what I now call the 'reject tray', that tray by my elbow that the dealer cannot easily see. We had managers and security, managers of managers and managers of security, it got crowded in the pit;-) I have to admit that the digital screen on the backside of this apparatus was probably showing the correct info, maybe. Eventually, after everyone that was available on call came and looked at the bill, played with bill, held bill up to light, tried rubbing ink off the bill, tried folding the bill so that secret lines match up appropriately, the pit boss gave up. He took the bill off to the cage or somewhere, swapped it for another 100 bill, brought it back and dropped the replacement back into the jaws of the latest Dropbox..........The replacement did not pop up.we played on.....

The Asian lady was never questioned as to her 'correct and valid' buy in amount. The game was slowed considerably. For about twenty minutes when the new device was removed and hauled off by the mechanic, that time when I saw the Apex Gaming sticker in the bottom of the now gaping hole in the table, no one, NO ONE, was allowed to buy in at the table for cash. There wasn't anywhere to put the cash. I swear, I was mostly sober.....

Looking at Apex Gaming on the Internet, though just briefly, I'm guessing this was an iteration of their iDROPe product line. I did suggest to the dealer, the pit boss, security, and management that was crawling out of the woodwork, that perhaps the next version of this Dropbox have the rejected bill pop-up on the dealer's side of the device rather than by the elbow of position six where the dealer cannot see it.

BTW, the two stack auto shuffler thing was already broken and the dealer was already hand shuffling, 6 decks. I should have stayed home.....

Cheers! 2F
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
21Flip
21Flip
Joined: Dec 22, 2014
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 94
October 21st, 2015 at 10:56:15 AM permalink
I work at Cherokee.

The new Apex systems are a US-first field trial. They are a brand new product, and are designed to address a long-standing accountability issue in table games: Exactly how much money is supposed to be in the box at the end of the day?

Right now, there is only a rough estimate each day. Table games has always had "grind" - relatively small amounts of money that get dropped by the dealer (think $40, $60, $100) without being entered into the ratings computers. Additionally, there are players who AREN'T rated (don't want the card) who play, and often their buy-in gets skipped in the table-touch systems.

So, when the box goes to the main cage at the end of the day for countdown, no one knows exactly how much is supposed to be there. These new systems are designed to address that. It adds an additional layer of accounting for verification of drop.

They are a bit glitchy right now, but that's the whole point of the field trial. When you build a prototype of equipment like that, about the only way to catch all the bugs is to throw it out there, and give it a whirl.

Sorry it had an effect on your experience. Most of the time, they have been pretty efficient. However, a few anomalies have occurred. One day, we had the thing fill up because of strong Baccarat action - something the vendor had not anticipated, and an example of how field trials can teach lessons about the real world vs design.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
  • Threads: 37
  • Posts: 3616
October 21st, 2015 at 11:36:02 AM permalink
Quote: 21Flip

I work at Cherokee.

The new Apex systems are a US-first field trial. They are a brand new product, and are designed to address a long-standing accountability issue in table games: Exactly how much money is supposed to be in the box at the end of the day?

Right now, there is only a rough estimate each day. Table games has always had "grind" - relatively small amounts of money that get dropped by the dealer (think $40, $60, $100) without being entered into the ratings computers. Additionally, there are players who AREN'T rated (don't want the card) who play, and often their buy-in gets skipped in the table-touch systems.

So, when the box goes to the main cage at the end of the day for countdown, no one knows exactly how much is supposed to be there. These new systems are designed to address that. It adds an additional layer of accounting for verification of drop.

They are a bit glitchy right now, but that's the whole point of the field trial. When you build a prototype of equipment like that, about the only way to catch all the bugs is to throw it out there, and give it a whirl.

Sorry it had an effect on your experience. Most of the time, they have been pretty efficient. However, a few anomalies have occurred. One day, we had the thing fill up because of strong Baccarat action - something the vendor had not anticipated, and an example of how field trials can teach lessons about the real world vs design.



21flip, thanks so much for bringing this post/thread back to life! I was beginning to think that everyone here had me blocked (joke). Of course you have now revealed yourself as a casino employee. That's fine with me, got no problem with you as such.

I noticed Flip 21 (the game) was advertised on one of the advertising monitors as I made my way thru the casino, went and found the game, one player heads up against dealer, watched for 2-3 minutes, decided I had enough problems already w/o tackling a new game and set of strategies ;-).

I also have to assume that you know exactly who I am, though I post anonymously here on this forum(s). I will appreciate you not sharing that info here on the forum(s), or with your employer. Sometimes I got to have faith.

In my post I mentioned that I got my ass kicked that night, again. It was not the fault of the new 'drop-box', I hope no one read it that way. It wasn't the dealer(s) fault. It wasn't the card's fault. Was my fault.

The really funny experience with the new drop-box was the only highlight of the night, as everyone ran around in circles while trying to look composed and professional as they attempted to deal (pun intended) with the ramifications of yet another new technology that I assume will become commonplace in the casinos.
Cheers to you 21flip!
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
sabre
sabre
Joined: Aug 16, 2010
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 1078
October 21st, 2015 at 12:09:01 PM permalink
That's a really, really egregious design flaw to have rejected bills pop out anywhere where a player could steal the bill unnoticed. If I was the casino management and somehow didn't notice this "feature" during the demo or installation process, I would immediately halt the trial and bitch out the device rep.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6270
October 22nd, 2015 at 5:47:07 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

That's a really, really egregious design flaw to have rejected bills pop out anywhere where a player could steal the bill unnoticed. If I was the casino management and somehow didn't notice this "feature" during the demo or installation process, I would immediately halt the trial and bitch out the device rep.



Agreed. Unacceptable. That cash will spend somewhere.

Hopefully they'll get that and other kinks worked out ASAP.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 99
  • Posts: 14232
October 22nd, 2015 at 8:18:06 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

21flip, thanks so much for bringing this post/thread back to life! I was beginning to think that everyone here had me blocked (joke). Of course you have now revealed yourself as a casino employee. That's fine with me, got no problem with you as such.

....

I also have to assume that you know exactly who I am, though I post anonymously here on this forum(s). I will appreciate you not sharing that info here on the forum(s), or with your employer. Sometimes I got to have faith.

...!



21Flip had named himself as a casino employee developing a new game from pretty much the first day or two of his membership (might have been his first post, I don't recall), and had specifically said he worked at Cherokee because they were trialing his game before, so it's not like you "outed" him. He has given no indication that he would ever "out" any information about you here, either. What we know about either of you is what each of you has said about himself.

I mention this to say that most everybody respects the forum rules and does not dox others, so I would appreciate you not making any/every discussion you post in with personal references into a public check of whether people are following that rule. It becomes tiresome pot-stirring very quickly, whether you meant it to or not. Thanks! :)

(edited to correct which parts I quoted )
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

  • Jump to: