Poll

8 votes (25%)
18 votes (56.25%)
6 votes (18.75%)

32 members have voted

ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
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August 18th, 2015 at 7:22:06 PM permalink
Ok, decided to start this thread after discussing it a bit in one of the Dice Influencing threads.

There were a few links put up that i'm not buying. This is one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvKDHjucEaE

My position is that it's not possible for a dealer to have any control or any deliberate influence on where the ball will land when spinning it. I'd like to hear other opinions on it...
CyrusV
CyrusV
Joined: Aug 8, 2015
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August 18th, 2015 at 9:10:15 PM permalink
All depends what size chips you are laying out, in other words with any doubt the answer is yes.

I use to play the game, I've heard the comments, been on the receiving end, if they want to take you down, they can and will do and it won't be via taking 2.7% from you.
casino pro dealer
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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August 18th, 2015 at 9:23:22 PM permalink
ONE thing is certain.

Anytime you find a croupier knowing in advance what numbers will be coming up, YOU are not going to get anywhere near the table because his wife, sister, brother, best friend and neighbor are all going to be sitting there.

If they are NOT sitting there, then he doesn't have the skill.
stephen.hall
stephen.hall
Joined: Aug 3, 2015
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August 18th, 2015 at 11:10:48 PM permalink
I was a dealer once at a casino in Brighton, England. I was already a poker player, blackjack card counter so I spent most of my 6-8 week training just learning to spin the ball with both hands as the two roulette tables were back to back.So to amuse myself I always started the spin on the zero and tried to spin consistently. So IF the wheel was at the same speed you could go pretty close to the last number or its neighbors.I think an expert dealer could get this right.

I remember one night I was on roulette and a guy started betting my last number and two either side. He won about a thousand in 20 minutes.I went on break when I returned he had lost it back.

I didn't stay long as it was a hard lifestyle to adopt.Working 8pm to 4am sometimes 6am if you did a count.I was leaving for work when my friends were going out to dinner or to concerts. In England tipping wasn't allowed so most people took advantage of the free training then applied for jobs on cruise ships or in Amsterdam.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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August 18th, 2015 at 11:22:34 PM permalink
It can be done. If you get an extremely consistent spin (usually fairly slow) and you slow down the wheel a good amount [so when the ball hits the wheel, it doesn't shoot out]. A consistent spin is where you spin the ball around the wheel the same amount of times (maybe 5 or 8 revolutions), and the ball drops right between the weird crosses in the same location on the wheel.

I don't think a dealer can hit a specific number guaranteed or be very likely to hit it. But all you need is a section of probably 5-6 numbers and be able to hit that section rather frequently.
ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
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August 19th, 2015 at 7:19:55 PM permalink
Thanks for the responses, very interesting.

I'm very skeptical about this, hence the thread. Like Fleastiff said, if a dealer was able to do this, they'd have their family and friends cleaning up. And if this was the case, i don't think Roulette would be a viable game anymore due to this. Since Roulette is still offered, I can only conclude it isn't possible.

CyrusV; Not really sure what you mean, the chips have nothing to do with this.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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August 20th, 2015 at 1:55:32 AM permalink
Several years ago I was invited to a demonstration of a dealer targeting four slots on a wheel. This was at a major strip casino.

I dated a dealer who told me she could do it, though I never saw her do it.
rawtuff
rawtuff
Joined: Mar 15, 2013
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August 20th, 2015 at 4:44:28 AM permalink
Quote: ShineyShine


There were a few links put up that i'm not buying. This is one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvKDHjucEaE



What's there in the video not to buy? It's pretty straightforward and legit.

The trick, however, is the wheel itself needs to have a consistent drop zone (the ball needs to hit and exit primarily on one or two of the pins) and consistent scatter/ball jump. If he's good, like the person from the video he can adjust predictions for rotor speed or just keep it consistent as well.
In reality such wheels are rarity nowadays in real casinos and get gradually replaced with new ones.
Greasyjohn
Greasyjohn
Joined: Dec 8, 2013
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August 20th, 2015 at 9:01:39 AM permalink
It is impossible for a croupier to spin the wheel in one direction and roll the ball in the other and even hit 1/2 of the combinations with any consistency at all--if, over 15 or so spins of the ball is achieved, which is the standard procedure that I have witnessed in Vegas.
DoubleOrNothing
DoubleOrNothing
Joined: Jan 2, 2012
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August 20th, 2015 at 9:29:12 AM permalink
At some length of spin or throw of the dice, other factors very quickly take over completely. Even the same spin or throw won't help you. At a lot nearer than a mile, of course. You could shoot dice through a doughnut at 100 feet, but knowing which faces go through first is another matter all together. A qualitative versus quantitative matter. Same as counting cards, which is the latter, and hence is feasible.

Ask a first year physics teacher's assistant of the corresponding lab half-credit course. The bit about trying to redesign simple inclined paths with automatic laser-beam clock (to precisely measure different types of starting and stopping) to reduce and compare the errors in results. We're talking logarithmic changes in error over various starts and lengths of paths, the error growing 10X, 100X, 1000X... over successive intervals.

The equipment designers know the limits on their devices. You'd have to remove a bearing from today's wheels to create a worthwhile bias.

People complain after two minutes in a line, but will spend their lives looking for Elvis online instead of just asking certain persons who might know how to nip all of this in the bud.

The casinos don't even put a prize on the wheel.
I can't believe what I believe.

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