Auto shuffler knows what the cards are
Quote: LuckyPhowI agree that casinos are not so stupid to risk their gaming license by trying to set the shuffled cards a certain way. And, your point about the shuffle machine not knowing the number of players IMHO provides evidence for the casino not even trying to do it.
However, some games deal cards to every player position, even if the spot is empty. For example, this is done in High Card Flush and in Pai Gow Poker. I have played at PGP tables where the Dealer has a screen that can display the cards dealt to any position. Mostly, the Dealer uses the device to verify his/her hand was correctly set to the "House Way." But, on occasion a player may ask the Dealer how the House would set a confusing hand, and the Dealer checks the electronic gadget on behalf of the player. So, the dealt cards are known to the shuffle machine, but not likely set a certain way by the shuffle machine.
Also, when players bet more than one hand, the second hand (always in my experience) must be set the House Way, so the Player derives no advantage from seeing cards in the other hand. However, sometimes the player will dispute how the Dealer set the Hi-Lo cards for the player's second hand. The gadget confirms whether the Dealer set the player's hand correctly or not. On rare occasions, I have seen the gadget confirm as House Way what the player wanted and not what the Dealer originally set for the Player hand. In that case, the machine knowing the cards and also knowing the House Way, works to benefit the player.
In Pai Gow all the hands are dealt, but the order of the cards being dealt to each spot is random at most locations. High Card Flush is sometimes dealt to all spots, sometimes not.
If you've ever seen the shuffler sort a deck, you know it takes some time. It has to read all the cards first, the the wheel inside has to rotate back and forth to get the cards to come out in order. I know I would notice if a shuffler was reading and then dealing set up hands. I would her the difference. I'm sure many in the gaming business would tio. And a lot of people in the business play. Not only can a casino not set the shuffler to any type of non random deal, it would be detected pretty quickly if they could. GLI or the equivalent also reviews the software and approves every version to verify that a non random deal is not possible.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13In Pai Gow all the hands are dealt, but the order of the cards being dealt to each spot is random at most locations. High Card Flush is sometimes dealt to all spots, sometimes not.
If you've ever seen the shuffler sort a deck, you know it takes some time. It has to read all the cards first, the the wheel inside has to rotate back and forth to get the cards to come out in order. I know I would notice if a shuffler was reading and then dealing set up hands. I would her the difference. I'm sure many in the gaming business would tio. And a lot of people in the business play. Not only can a casino not set the shuffler to any type of non random deal, it would be detected pretty quickly if they could. GLI or the equivalent also reviews the software and approves every version to verify that a non random deal is not possible.
ZCore13
So you just admitted its theoretically possible if everyone was 'in' on it. Interesting. And to think you and others before said it's impossible to program it.
Quote: ZenKinGSo you just admitted its theoretically possible if everyone was 'in' on it. Interesting. And to think you and others before said it's impossible to program it.
It's impossible to program it.
Quote: ZenKinGSo you just admitted its theoretically possible if everyone was 'in' on it. Interesting. And to think you and others before said it's impossible to program it.
It is impossible to program. I didn't say anything close to the contrary. It has no capabilities of sending out cards other than random. It can sort Cards into new deck order, but that is not a dealing option.
ZCore13
Quote: MaxPenI used to enjoy playing Pai Gow poker for fun. I stopped when most games went to the auto shuffler. Give me a hand shuffle and a dice cup. That is the only way I will play.
I've only seen one place offer hand-shuffled PGP and they've since closed down... Took about five minutes a hand.
James Grosjean published it in an article in All in magazine,it was commonly referred as the Kentucky set up or something like that iirc.
Quote: HunterhillThere is a specific order of cards that can basically make it so the players can't win and it doesn't matter if u add or drop hands or alter strategy.
James Grosjean published it in an article in All in magazine,it was commonly referred as the Kentucky set up or something like that iirc.
Could be done much simpler than that. How about just clumping a bunch of 10 value cards together. Regardless of number of players, you would have a couple rounds of players and dealer pushing on 20's and the remaining rounds would all be depleted of 10 value cards which favors the dealer.
Quote: MrBoCould be done much simpler than that. How about just clumping a bunch of 10 value cards together. Regardless of number of players, you would have a couple rounds of players and dealer pushing on 20's and the remaining rounds would all be depleted of 10 value cards which favors the dealer.
Yeah, cause nobody would notice all the 10's coming out first.
ZCore13
Quote: rsactuaryI've talked to pit bosses and asked what would happen if they put a new unshuffled deck into an automatic shuffler. How mixed up do the cards actually get?
They've never tried it, and they say they aren't allowed to. I sure would be curious.
(and I would like to see it done more on a single deck game like Pai Gai or Let it Ride to get a true sense of how well it's shuffling).
Very mixed up. I wonder why some casinos insist on riffling the deck before putting it into the shuffler? All that does is waste time and shorten the life of the cards.
Quote: HunterhillThere is a specific order of cards that can basically make it so the players can't win and it doesn't matter if u add or drop hands or alter strategy.
James Grosjean published it in an article in All in magazine,it was commonly referred as the Kentucky set up or something like that iirc.
Never heard of it and not plausible. If he wrote about, it would be public and would have been discussed at nausium on this site. I object your Honor! Hearsay!
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13
If you've ever seen the shuffler sort a deck, you know it takes some time. It has to read all the cards first, the the wheel inside has to rotate back and forth to get the cards to come out in order. I know I would notice if a shuffler was reading and then dealing set up hands. I would her the difference. I'm sure many in the gaming business would tio. And a lot of people in the business play. Not only can a casino not set the shuffler to any type of non random deal, it would be detected pretty quickly if they could. GLI or the equivalent also reviews the software and approves every version to verify that a non random deal is not possible.
ZCore13
When the shuffler is in SORT mode, the red and green lights flash for the entire length of the process.
Quote: Zcore13Yeah, cause nobody would notice all the 10's coming out first.
ZCore13
Doesn't have to be ALL 10's. Just a high density of 10 value.
Here is another scenario. Double deck ASM. All the aces, or not even all, even 6 aces are all clumped reasonable close together in a clump that has fewer than normal density of 10 value cards.
It wouldn't matter where that clump was cut to, beginning middle or back, nor would number of players make a difference. You are going to have the aces come out, with no or little chance of blackjacks and that bonus 150% payoff. And the remaining rounds will all be ace free or ace depleted, resulting in a big house advantage.
Quote: Zcore13Never heard of it and not plausible. If he wrote about, it would be public and would have been discussed at nausium on this site. I object your Honor! Hearsay!
ZCore13
Well I guess you can add that to the list of things you haven't heard about.
He definitely wrote about it,i just don't have access right now to the magazine.
He was not the first to come up with the idea .
Quote: HunterhillThere is a specific order of cards that can basically make it so the players can't win and it doesn't matter if u add or drop hands or alter strategy.
Is that assuming some kind of consistent rational play and ignorance of the upcoming cards or perfect knowledge to optimize returns?
Quote: HunterhillWell I guess you can add that to the list of things you haven't heard about.
He definitely wrote about it,i just don't have access right now to the magazine.
He was not the first to come up with the idea .
Earlier you said there was a specific order the cards could be put in. Now It's just an idea? I say poppycock!
ZCore13
After it finishes dealing the cards out the screen in the middle of the table promps the dealer to select the dealers spot.
https://vimeo.com/34795006 (2:41 it shows it)
If a player is playing one on one against the dealer in Three Card Poker, is it possible for both the dealer and player to get the same exact cards that they have just been dealt, again on the very first hand when that same deck is dealt out again? (casino uses two decks, a red deck and a blue deck.). If the dealer doesn't cut the cards prior to placing them back into the shuffler (cards are placed face up in the top of the shuffler), I was curious if the 3 top cards could all be placed all in one slot of the wheel, and then next three all together in another slot as well? I was thinking about this after reading an article about 3CP at apheat.
Quote: EdpokernutI have a question about the Shufflemaster one2six machine, if anyone can help me:
If a player is playing one on one against the dealer in Three Card Poker, is it possible for both the dealer and player to get the same exact cards that they have just been dealt, again on the very first hand when that same deck is dealt out again? (casino uses two decks, a red deck and a blue deck.). If the dealer doesn't cut the cards prior to placing them back into the shuffler (cards are placed face up in the top of the shuffler), I was curious if the 3 top cards could all be placed all in one slot of the wheel, and then next three all together in another slot as well? I was thinking about this after reading an article about 3CP at apheat.
No, because i have worked at a casino that just puts them back in the machine.
Quote: EdpokernutI have a question about the Shufflemaster one2six machine, if anyone can help me:
If a player is playing one on one against the dealer in Three Card Poker, is it possible for both the dealer and player to get the same exact cards that they have just been dealt, again on the very first hand when that same deck is dealt out again? (casino uses two decks, a red deck and a blue deck.). If the dealer doesn't cut the cards prior to placing them back into the shuffler (cards are placed face up in the top of the shuffler), I was curious if the 3 top cards could all be placed all in one slot of the wheel, and then next three all together in another slot as well? I was thinking about this after reading an article about 3CP at apheat.
Three Card Poker is not dealt using a One2Six. It is dealt with an iDeal shuffler. Cards are placed in iDeal shuffler face down, not face up. And there is always a ridicously small chance the first 6 cards could come out the same in back to back hands,
I don't think cutting or not cutting would make a difference, those 6 cards would remain together into the shuffler either way, unless the cut was less than 6 cards from the top. Cutting is not a normal procedure prior to loading cards into the shuffler. A riffle shuffle wod be the most common thing done.
ZCore13
So technically its not really 100% random than? I guess on the other hand if the dealer and player did get the same exact cards again, someone could say it doesn't look random either, lol.Quote: GlenGNo, because i have worked at a casino that just puts them back in the machine.
Quote: EdpokernutSo technically its not really 100% random than? I guess on the other hand if the dealer and player did get the same exact cards again, someone could say it doesn't look random either, lol.
It is 100% random
Quote: EdpokernutThanks guys. Zcore13, I'll check the machine again on my next visit. I really could of sworn it was a One2Six.
Are you playing outside of the USA?
One2Six is used with an adapter outside of the USA to deal Three Card Poker, but it's still with a single deck.
Quote: SM777Are you playing outside of the USA?
One2Six is used with an adapter outside of the USA to deal Three Card Poker, but it's still with a single deck.
Good point. I never even consider comments or questions here being asked from out of the country unless they specifically say so in the text. I guess maybe I should get clarification on that before answering some questions.
ZCore13
Quote: EdpokernutSo technically its not really 100% random than? I guess on the other hand if the dealer and player did get the same exact cards again, someone could say it doesn't look random either, lol.
If you NEVER got the same cards back to back, then it wouldn't be random. Random includes those scenarios.
I once was dealt 10♥️ 4♥️ three times in a row playing live Texas Hold Em. That included a wash of the cards, riffle, and then placed into a shuffle machine.
Quote: EdpokernutYes, sorry guys, my bad, I'm in Asia. They use 2 decks, one blue and one red, I know this for sure as my friend bets bigger when the red cards will be coming out, (Its a single deck game of course). Once the second deck is placed into the top of the machine, the machine will start placing three cards from the first deck into the exit tray.
That's how is usually done here as well.
Quote: Zcore13Earlier you said there was a specific order the cards could be put in. Now It's just an idea? I say poppycock!
ZCore13
Ya whatever, Obviously if it were a real thing you would know about it ,because you know everything.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIf you NEVER got the same cards back to back, then it wouldn't be random. Random includes those scenarios.
I once was dealt 10♥️ 4♥️ three times in a row playing live Texas Hold Em. That included a wash of the cards, riffle, and then placed into a shuffle machine.
I agree. I'm really curious about the inner workings of the wheel., like if the wheel has 40? slots but only x amount of the slots are used to hold 3 cards (17 or less? I have no idea how the machine would hold the remainder cards) Maximum 7 players at the table + dealer, I wonder if shuffler only uses 8 slots or if 17 slots still get filled with 3 cards, etc.
Quote: HunterhillYa whatever, Obviously if it were a real thing you would know about it ,because you know everything.
It's kind of my job to know about table games. Show me any information on your Kentucky sort that can beat any number of random players at a table. Wouldn't there be something on all of Google if it were true?
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13It's kind of my job to know about table games. Show me any information on your Kentucky sort that can beat any number of random players at a table. Wouldn't there be something on all of Google if it were true?
ZCore13
I will but it will take a month or two,I'm in the middle of moving so all my books and magazines are packed up.
Also there are many things written that are not on the internet,I have a paper written by Stanford Wong that you won't find on Google and also a strategy for beating a table game that was written by a highly respected gaming author
That was never published and a google search wouldn't show anything.
Quote: HunterhillI will but it will take a month or two,I'm in the middle of moving so all my books and magazines are packed up.
Also there are many things written that are not on the internet,I have a paper written by Stanford Wong that you won't find on Google and also a strategy for beating a table game that was written by a highly respected gaming author
That was never published and a google search wouldn't show anything.
It's 2018. If it's important, it's on the internet in some way shape or form.
It just isn't as complicated as you and (possibly James Grosjean) are making it. Simple clumping of either 10 value cards or Aces (not together) will create a situation that is more advantageous to the house. Sometimes this occurs naturally, unbeknown to player or dealer.
But knowing that this kind of card clumping creates such a situation, creates a dangerous situation (for players) when combined with the technology that has the ability to do so. And these machines, especially later model have that capability. For you or anyone to argue that this capability is not present is someone who is pretty gullible.
Now make no mistake, I am not suggesting that this occurs regularly. It is or would be illegal. Now, various gaming commissions upholding those laws and protections is another matter.
Complicating this is the fact that the casino industry has in recent years done away with some of the procedures that were installed to provide transparency and provide the customer with a level of comfort that the industry was operating with a certain level of integrity. Eliminating procedures like spreading the cards, removes that level of transparency and protections for the player, as does just the concept of a shuffle machine where the player is not seeing the cards shuffled.
These procedures where initially implemented for a reason. Transparency. So the players could actually see that they were getting a fair game. In the absence of that, players are supposed to take the casino industry's word for it. And frankly as someone who has been in this game for decades, I have plenty of reasons not to take the casino's word on anything.
Quote: MrBo
Complicating this is the fact that the casino industry has in recent years done away with some of the procedures that were installed to provide transparency and provide the customer with a level of comfort that the industry was operating with a certain level of integrity. Eliminating procedures like spreading the cards, removes that level of transparency and protections for the player, as does just the concept of a shuffle machine where the player is not seeing the cards shuffled.
Every time the table is opened or the cards are changed, the cards are checked by the floor, then the dealer checks the fronts and back...Where do they NOT do this?
Before someone mentions baccarat, I used to work at a place with heavy bacc action, and when they put new 8 decks in the machine, they were checked at the beginning of the shift..I don t beleive many US casinos use pre-shuffled bags anymore, ever since that casino got taken for a lot of money from an unsorted shoe.
Quote: GlenGEvery time the table is opened or the cards are changed, the cards are checked by the floor, then the dealer checks the fronts and back...Where do they NOT do this?
Checked by the dealer? Checked by the floor? Where is the players ability to check and see for himself, if he so desires? This procedure was implemented so the player had that availability. The casino industry has in recent years removed that safeguard and in doing so, compromises the integrity that used to be present. These measures were initially implemented as a safeguard, a protection for the player. The casino industry has simply removed those protections and instead says "trust us".
Quote: MrBoChecked by the dealer? Checked by the floor? Where is the players ability to check and see for himself, if he so desires? This procedure was implemented so the player had that availability. The casino industry has in recent years removed that safeguard and in doing so, compromises the integrity that used to be present. These measures were initially implemented as a safeguard, a protection for the player. The casino industry has simply removed those protections and instead says "trust us".
I am a dealer. We do it right there on the table. Anyone who wants to watch can watch.
...I also suspect she was on drugs or drunk, given how many times she:
Pitched cards off the table.
Dealt to a non-existent person.
Skipped dealing to a person.
Checked for BJ without inserting the card into the viewfinder.*
Confused greens and reds.
Busted into the 30s.
*Never found a BJ. In direct contrast to the guy at GN-L who never found a BJ in the viewfinder, but flipped one twice in a single DD shuffle...
Quote: EdpokernutI agree. I'm really curious about the inner workings of the wheel., like if the wheel has 40? slots but only x amount of the slots are used to hold 3 cards (17 or less? I have no idea how the machine would hold the remainder cards) Maximum 7 players at the table + dealer, I wonder if shuffler only uses 8 slots or if 17 slots still get filled with 3 cards, etc.
There are 38 slots for cards on the ideal and One2Six shufflers. For Three Card Poker it only uses 11 of the slots. Eight of them get 3 cards and the other three slots get the rest. It doesn't put the cards into the slots by threes though. The wheel rotates back and forth randomly putting one card at a time until all 11 spots are at their correct amounts.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13There are 38 slots for cards on the ideal and One2Six shufflers. For Three Card Poker it only uses 11 of the slots. Eight of them get 3 cards and the other three slots get the rest. It doesn't put the cards into the slots by threes though. The wheel rotates back and forth randomly putting one card at a time until all 11 spots are at their correct amounts.
ZCore13
Why would you need different shuffles for different games?
Hmmmmmmm
Quote: MaxPenWhy would you need different shuffles for different games?
Hmmmmmmm
Huh? Three Card Poker delivers 3 card packs for players. High Card Flush uses 7 card packs. UTH 2 cards per player. Why would they not be different?
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13There are 38 slots for cards on the ideal and One2Six shufflers. For Three Card Poker it only uses 11 of the slots. Eight of them get 3 cards and the other three slots get the rest. It doesn't put the cards into the slots by threes though. The wheel rotates back and forth randomly putting one card at a time until all 11 spots are at their correct amounts.
ZCore13
Thanks Zcore13. I have only seen the One2Six with its cover off once.... after a baccarat player came over to the 3CP table and was bending the cards which ended up jamming the machine, LOL.
I also can distinguish that aside from obvious Pro Casino trolls , there are even more suckers willing to believe casinos are honest and can´t afford risk a liscense and all that sha-bang. Haha Please if you are one of those .. You are a Great Casino Client.. they LOVE YOU!
Go Play at the Kondike LV, try switching a min 2 dollar bet just to a 20 or a 50 dollar bet..Hahhahaha see what happens!!!
You will get a dealer yelling,¨ Checks Play !!!!" -(on a peanut bet).. and The boss not even watching the table Will respond with a loud ¨SHUFFLE EM!!¨-haha And the dealer picks up,all cards and shuffles again..oh and your bet and that hand-- Sorry Its Over-- They end that hand Dead!
Go sue them or complain.. Rules ARE made for them Not U sucker!!
So Naive of all of the detractors (Not counting the obvious payed 24 online trolls at this site )
-Can they do That? Yes they can Can Do That!-
They can call a shuffle in the middle of the shoe , So why should you even doubt that they will Hit the -Program to ORDER the Shuffle Constanly in their favor- and not let the Ranndom Shuffle stay constant?.
Children I need not give more details.. but if you ever find a Auto Shuffle CSM or Contsant Shuffle machine Plugged to Power But not Plugged in to Either a USB or Compter Tel CAT Line.. go ahead and try your luck.. Otherwise..Yes It can and will be Done-- -Love and Peace to all. Play smart and Safe.
Quote: JESUS1I am pleased with the responses. I am not a regular nere. Nor do I plan to be one. Having made that clear, I Now also know how many trolls casinos put on these sites to de-Myth the Truth.
I alo can distinguish thtr aside from trolls , there are even more suckers willing to believe casinos are honest and can´t afford risk a liscense and all that sha-bang. Haha Please if you are one of those .. You are a Great Casino Client.. they LOVE YOU!
Go Play at the Kondike LV, try switching a min 2 dollar bet just to a 20 or a 50 dollar bet..Hahhahaha see ewhat happens!!!
You will get a dealer yelling,¨ Checks Play !!!!" -(on peanut bet).. and The boss not even watching the table Retirn that call with a loed ¨SHUFFLE!!¨-haha And the dealer picks up,all cards and shuffles again..oh and your bet and that hand-- Sorry Itsn Over-- Go sue them or cm,plain.. Rules ARE made for them Not U sucker!!
So Naive of all of the detractors (Not countging the obvoios payed 24 onlinee trolls at this site ) -Can they do That? Yes they can Can Do That!-
The can call a suffle in the middle of the shoe ,,So why should you even doubt that they will if Hit a Program to ORDEFR the Shufle Constanly and not let the Random Random Shuffle stay.
Children I need not give more details.. but of you ever find a Auto Shuffle CSM or Contsant Shuffle machimn Plugged to Power But not Pluged in to Either a USB or Compter Tel CAT Line.. go ahead and try your luck.. Otherwise..Yes It can and will be Done-- -Love and Peace to all. Play smart and Safe.
I just have one question. What language is this so I can input into an online translator?
ZCore13
ZScore You Are TROLL! a 24 HOUR TROLL with instant responses 24 HOURS a Day awaiting to Make a Fool of yourself and Prove once again who here is a Paid Employee lobbying for casinos.
Try for once to take a nap.. Maybe sleep an Hour or 8! Try not making yourself so predictable and Obvious! hahaha please ZScore.. You are a Clown.... And a Bad Hire for Casinos. Your instant responses Give You away!
Let it be known Zscore is a Paid TROLL!
No more from me I still own Shares at Casinos FOR Life..( My deal was that as I left and it stands in Square feet and Machines and part of Gross on the tables..) Heads Up to alll those who I no Longer wish or need to take their moneys.
You Keep On Keepin On !Doing the troll thing.. I can Take from the wealthy , the corrupt and evil, but I have decided to let the rest Live and be wiser.
I don´t repent, Just do not want Any impoversihed or Gullable ones to be victims any Longer.
Peace, Love and Wisdon to all.
Bye Guys Game OVER!!
Quote: GlenGYour foil hat is on too tight
The chem-trails have been really bad lately.
