Very Basic Pai Gow Poker Question #1

The Wizard's game deals the cards face down, then turns the player's cards face up. So I am picturing that one should expect the cards to be dealt face down and be turned up at the appropriate time by the player. Or would this not be the case? Surely so, or players would be looking at each other's cards.

If the cards are indeed dealt down, there would be 7 of them, yet I have to assume you can't pick them up but must look at them by only using one hand as in other games. Seems a little awkward. What is the best technique for that?

At the Excalibur, at least, you can pick up your cards with two hands, and the dealer doesn't mind if you show them to other players. Keep in mind in Pai Gow Poker you can ask the dealer to set your cards, too. And yes, cards are dealt face down.

This may be an Excalibur thing, as the 3 card poker dealers also didn't mind if players showed each other their cards before placing a play bet.

In casinos, in ALL games where the cards are dealt face down, you're not supposed to show your cards to other players.

Yeah, a dealer may let you slide if its a low-stakes table, but a floorperson may say otherwise.


The Wizard's version, like all on-line versions, are done that way because how else are you going to look at and arrange the cards?

The rules of most table games are that there should be no communicating of hands, in any game where the HA can be reduced through knowing information about other hands. That's why the hands are dealt face down. Bacarrat and Blackjack (> single deck and some double deck games) are the exception.

When the casino lets you share information, it's only because they are being nice. However, I get very suspicious that should I hit a "pay hand" where I win a large payout (Straight Flush in 3-Card, 4 of a Kind in LIR or Caribbean), the casino will say "you shared".

In Pai Gow Poker, most dealers will allow overt looking at other people's hands. In the cases where my wife and I play together, I'm always checking my wife's hand but depending on the casino, I can't help her until I set my hand. When we play together as well, both the WynCore and Bellagio only let one of us bank as they saw the money as shared. If it's a case where we are just "looking", they don't seem to have a problem unless you're completely obvious and announcing hands.

DJ is right where you have to be a bit more careful when the pit folk are around.

Quote: Nareed

At the Excalibur, at least, you can pick up your cards with two hands, and the dealer doesn't mind if you show them to other players. Keep in mind in Pai Gow Poker you can ask the dealer to set your cards, too. And yes, cards are dealt face down.

This may be an Excalibur thing, as the 3 card poker dealers also didn't mind if players showed each other their cards before placing a play bet.

Thanks, Nareed and all; still it would be possible to violate etiquette, I'm thinking, what are people scolded for? I worry quite a bit about these things.

Your hand is dealt face down. Many casinos require you to wait until all cards are dealt before you pick up your cards, in case of a misdeal. Other casinos want you to pick it up and set it as quickly as possible to move the game along (more hands per hour). I always wait until all hands are dealt and the remaining four cards are counted, because misdeals from the machines happen fairly frequently.

You can use both hands to touch your cards and set your hand. You'll only get scolded if you pull your hand back beyond the rail. Keep 'em over the table.

After examining your cards, you set your hand face down on the table. After the dealer sets his/her hand, he/she will turn over each player's hand and determine winners, losers and pushes.

The house does not want players to examine other players hands prior to setting their own hand. You may solicit another player's help with your hand once they have set their own hand. You can generally ask for the dealer's help at any time. In my extensive experience, I've never seen a casino get grouchy about any of this. If you're helping another player, NEVER touch their cards. This will always bring a scolding.

Nareed,
Looking at a another player's hand in Pai Gow Poker is not a major advantage for the looker, nor is it a major crime, as it's seeing only the dealer's or banker's hand that is a crucial no-no. I deal the game, and if I see someone look at another player's hand in order to give advice, it's not a problem. However, Floormen can be a little uptight or anal about things.

I also feel that there is NO need to have the banker set his hand last, in a separate "hand setting period." I feel the banker may set his hand simulatneously, so as long as he is not openly displaying it, and is sheilding it in good faith. This would help the game go much faster. Banking is slow enought!

Quote: Paigowdan

Nareed,
Looking at a another player's hand in Pai Gow Poker is not a major advantage for the looker, nor is it a major crime, as it's seeing only the dealer's or banker's hand that is a crucial no-no.

At Excalibur I played briefly alongside a guy from Boston, who helped another player set his hand almost every turn. You're right, the dealer said nothing about it.

I agree there isn't much advantage in seeing all the hands. At a full table you could easily infer the banker's likely hands if you saw all the other hands first (though 4 cards remain unused), but it's unlikely you'd set your hands any differently. After all you're trying to set the highest hands possible every time.

Quote: Nareed

...but it's unlikely you'd set your hands any differently. After all you're trying to set the highest hands possible every time.

good point. I'm sure we can all think of scenarios, though. You see two aces in separate hands, plus you have an ace, nobody has a pair of aces then and it might be good to know. OK, I'm a newbie and may be over-valuing this.

There is just 53 cards used period, no multi-decks, right?

edit: oops maybe they do have a pair of aces, with the joker! BTW it seems the joker trumps an ordinary ace?

Quote: odiousgambit

good point. I'm sure we can all think of scenarios, though. You see two aces in separate hands, plus you have an ace, nobody has a pair of aces then and it might be good to know. OK, I'm a newbie and may be over-valuing this.

There is just 53 cards used period, no multi-decks, right?

edit: oops maybe they do have a pair of aces, with the joker! BTW it seems the joker trumps an ordinary ace?

Yes, just one 53 card deck.

The joker plays as an ace just like the other four unless it can be used to fill out a straight or a flush.

Using the process of elimination to determine what the dealer's cards are could help if you have a hand which could be set two ways. Like if you have two pair and need to determine whether to split. Or if you can play either a flush with some junk or two pairs. If you know what the dealer holds, you could make a decision based on those specific cards. Otherwise, you decide based on what works best against a random hand.

Because there are 4 discards in the deck, you can never know exactly what the dealer is holding, so I cannot imagine that this would be a useful endeavor.

In pai gow tiles, all the tiles get dealt out. The house reserves one hand and burns those four tiles to prevent players from having access to all the tiles that are not in the dealer's hand.

Three interesting hands in the last few minutes:

Quote: PapaChubby

The joker plays as an ace just like the other four unless it can be used to fill out a straight or a flush.

I momentarily forgot that. Fortunately, the simulator gave me a second chance when I set my cards badly:
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As it turned out, it didn't matter. The dealer had nothing.


Hey! Here's something you hardly ever see. The joker's entire face!
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Of course, three pair, or two trips, is the only way you'd see it!


From the wow-that-was-close department:
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Unbelievably, my garbage squeaked thru and won!

I play lots and lots of Pai Gow Poker. And I always try to count aces if I have to make a decision with my hand. I don't know how much it cuts from the house edge, but every little bit helps.

Also - Joker is not higher than an ace, unless you're playing mini pai-gow, but that's for a different time.