PGP - question about tipping

I like to reward fun/interactive dealers as it makes playing much more fun. With that i have a couple questions:

When I tip on the main bet, when i win both the winnings and my original bet go in the box. Is there a way to indicate that i want my original tip to stay there till it loses?

In blackjack i like to put a dollar on top of my bet and at the same time put a dollar up for the dealer. When i win i use the dollar i won and put it back up for the dealer. I call it "the tip generator" which usually gets a chuckle out of the dealer and gets them more invovled which increases the fun. Is there a way to do this in PGP ? The commission makes things a little annoying.

I never tried it in any game other than craps, but I typically say "Player control" or simply "Piggyback".

You're right. The commission thing might be an issue. Then again, it might not. Ask.

Note that I've only tried it in craps because I've pretty much sworn off other games before I learned about the Player Control / Piggyback option.

I add a dollar outside the betting circle for the tip and when I win the dealer gets $2. I never seen the dealer take commission out from their tip.

Dealers are instructed to ALWAYS drop the bet + winnings into the toke box. This increases tips because oftentimes players will put up another bet for the dealer. It also locks up double the amount of the winnings instead of 'gambling.' You could instruct them before the bet wins to not drop the original tip bet, but they don't really like that. My advice is let them drop the original tip bet and then don't put another bet up for them.

Quote: sodawater

Dealers are instructed to ALWAYS drop the bet + winnings into the toke box. This increases tips because oftentimes players will put up another bet for the dealer. It also locks up double the amount of the winnings instead of 'gambling.' You could instruct them before the bet wins to not drop the original tip bet, but they don't really like that. My advice is let them drop the original tip bet and then don't put another bet up for them.

On a piggyback toke bet, where the tip bet is capped on top of the player's bet but offset towards the dealer, only the winnings are taken (dropped) by the dealer, and the original bet automatically remains. This way, the dealer is up for the next round, unless the player pulls back the toke bet before the next bet.

A dealer may never take a chip off of a player's betting stack and drop it into his toke box.

PGD, how does commission affect that? Say we're doing that trick on normal Pai Gow Poker. I bet $15, with $1 offset towards the dealer. Since that dollar is implied as a toke, am I off the hook for the 25-cent commission on that dollar?

Incidentally, WA state is incredibly particular against this sort of thing. If a normal toke is played, it is illegal for the dealer to leave any part of it behind after a win. Furthermore, "piggyback" tokes are not recognized as anything other than a part of the player's bet, so if it is won, the dealer must wait for the player to give the winnings to him. This is the only way a dealer could be "left riding" or "parlay" any sort of toke.

Quote: Deucekies

PGD, how does commission affect that? Say we're doing that trick on normal Pai Gow Poker. I bet $15, with $1 offset towards the dealer. Since that dollar is implied as a toke, am I off the hook for the 25-cent commission on that dollar?

Yes, the player is off the hook. Dealer either drops 95%, or drops 100% in cases where the house forgives commissions on dealer tokes.

Quote: Deucekies

Incidentally, WA state is incredibly particular against this sort of thing. If a normal toke is played, it is illegal for the dealer to leave any part of it behind after a win. Furthermore, "piggyback" tokes are not recognized as anything other than a part of the player's bet, so if it is won, the dealer must wait for the player to give the winnings to him. This is the only way a dealer could be "left riding" or "parlay" any sort of toke.

WA state, like California, is a country unto itself. In these cases, then the dealer would pay the player as if it were entirely his bet, and sees if he throws anything in - as his capped bet would indicate or promise.

In Nevada and elsewhere, a capped toke bet is paid with player's winning portion to the side or towards his end, and the capped toke bet portion is paid in front toward the dealer, to show the intention of that tip. After take-and pay and scoping the cards, the dealer taps the players area (a visible "thank you") and drops the tip winnings.

Well, HERE's a Pai Gow Poker TIP STORY:

About five years ago, when I was still a dealer, on a Saturday afternoon off time I was playing Pai Gow poker at Sunset Station, and was just getting my ass head headed to me. Loosing just about every had on a $300 buy in: my two pairs with an ace top loses to trips with an AK top, Aces with a KQ top losing to three pairs, nary a bonus to be seen. Just a Blood bath. [Dealer could have had a German accent: "Oh! I am zo Zorry....."]

Then, a floor valet (like a cocktail waitress, but to bring over comp-ed cigarettes, promo tee-shirts instead of booze, etc.) brings new my comped smokes, and I was about to tip him $2, and he "Naa, that's okay - just add that to your bonus bet." Seriously. Okay, so I thank him and I do so, $7 on the bonus bet.

New dealer taps in and I get AKQJ109 in diamonds and a 9 of spades, a 6-card Royal to be played as a Royal with a pair of 9's up. Trust me, I remember this hand - it is burned into memory! Wow, good thing I capped that bonus bet!

Dealer calls "ROYAL!" - and cuts out $1,050, NOT as ten black and two quarters, but as eight Black and ten quarters, [cough, cough, hint, hint, smile]. Floorman comes over along with two dealers on break, fellow dealers who recognize me and are slightly staring me down. ["Let's see what you're gonna do, Dan, - are you going to be a cheap bastard?" kind of thing.] A little moral pressure from fellow dealers trying to make a living.

Anyway, I hand-in the $250 in quarters and take eight black to the cage.

Wow, what greedy bastards.

I would normally tip $25 on a win like that (which I think is more than generous) but anyone who hustles tokes like that gets exactly $0.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Wow, what greedy bastards.

I would normally tip $25 on a win like that (which I think is more than generous) but anyone who hustles tokes like that gets exactly $0.

A bit annoying and tacky, I will say. No one likes his potential generosity being tested. The way the payout was cut out was a wee bit of a hustle, but could be explained as a "Oh, I thought you might like to play green" kind of thing. The pay out was correct. Crap dealers are notorious for this little bit of "color down on a color up:" And even $1,000 color up may look like nine blackjack and four quarters, so you can tip a green or two on the way out.

The statement made by such a color up or pay out is "well, we're giving you the OPTION to tip. [cough, cough]."

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Wow, what greedy bastards.

I would normally tip $25 on a win like that (which I think is more than generous) but anyone who hustles tokes like that gets exactly $0.

Actually, let me rephrase.

I would give $300 to the guy who brought the cigarettes (I figure, he's in for $2 of the $7; that $300 is his). That leaves me with $750. I would give the dealers $25 or MAYBE $50 if it was a dealer that I really liked.

Quote: Paigowdan

A dealer may never take a chip off of a player's betting stack and drop it into his toke box.

Yet it happens frequently. They say "is that for me?", pointing to the piggybacked winning bet. The player says yes, the dealer pays and drops both chips.

Quote: Paigowdan

Dealer calls "ROYAL!" - and cuts out $1,050, NOT as ten black and two quarters, but as eight Black and ten quarters, [cough, cough, hint, hint, smile]. .

If they had paid me like that they would have gotten the sweetest verbal "thank you" I could say, and not a single dollar.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Actually, let me rephrase.

I would give $300 to the guy who brought the cigarettes (I figure, he's in for $2 of the $7; that $300 is his). That leaves me with $750. I would give the dealers $25 or MAYBE $50 if it was a dealer that I really liked.

Agreed. I assumed the cigarette guy is playing his $2.

When I dealt dice, I would color up $1,000 and ten black out, and not give it a second thought. Thank you for playing.

I knew:
1. Being pushy just kills tips.
2. Not worth worrying about. Worry about tips - and you kill tips. Sweating the tips is like sweating the money while playing, counter-productive.
3. If a player wants to tip, he doesn't need to be told, he needs to supplied with business-like, non-greedy service; then he'll be more likely to tip if NOT prompted.

Every single word Dan said. Someone who wants to tip more will ask for the color. They don't need to be told. And the excuse of giving them "playing chips" only flies if the payout is small enough where it can all be playing chips. (8:1 on a green chip can get eight green chips instead of two blacks). Sneaking four greens into a $1000 payout, especially a payout to a red bet, is purely soliciting. And truth be told, playing chips is more for the casino's benefit than the dealer's. If the dealer gets a tip out of it, that's a happy coincidence.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Slot attendants are guilty of this too. Every single jackpot I've gotten that was in exact $100 increments have come with five $20's on the end.

Request all black on payment for table games and all $100s for handpays. They'll get the message.