JB
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December 20th, 2012 at 1:02:14 PM permalink
Please try out the Wizard's new Crazy 4 Poker practice game.

If you are able to break it or encounter strange behavior with it, please reply to this thread.
Wizard
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December 20th, 2012 at 11:03:55 PM permalink
Sorry for the math joke, but I'm afraid nobody noticed the OP.

One day, Jesus said to his disciples: "The Kingdom of Heaven is like 3x squared plus 8x minus 9."
A man who had just joined the disciples looked very confused and asked Peter: "What, on Earth, does he mean by that?"
Peter replied: "Don't worry - it's just another one of his parabolas."
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
sodawater
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December 20th, 2012 at 11:26:08 PM permalink
deleted
Last edited by: sodawater on Oct 1, 2018
tringlomane
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December 21st, 2012 at 12:12:38 AM permalink
Quote: sodawater

game works fine for me, however i really do not like the actual game crazy 4 poker. i think it's one of the most boring card games ever.



I also played it for a little while and also noticed the boredom. I didn't find an error though. With UTH and Mississippi Stud out there, it's impressive this game is still around. :) It's hard to find in my area though. I think the nearest place that has it is Kansas City ~3 hours away.
Wizard
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December 21st, 2012 at 5:12:09 AM permalink
I find the game boring too. However, it is probably a good choice if playing for comps. Many casinos over-comp the "novelty games," and with such a simple strategy you won't lose anything to player errors, as you might with Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DJTeddyBear
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December 21st, 2012 at 5:52:37 AM permalink
Boring? Yeah, I thought so too. Maybe we need to get someone who actually plays the casino game to try this simulator.

The only thing I found to be broken was the link on the bottom of the description page, going to ShuffleMaster's page.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Paradigm
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December 21st, 2012 at 7:13:14 AM permalink
I also played yesterday and didn't find any errors to report.

I had never played Crazy 4 Poker before either live or online. Like the other posters, after playing the game, I found it not that compelling and am surprised this game has done so well (teliot's book indicated 100+ installs back in mid 2009 and I am sure it has over 200 now as I see it in a lot of properties in CA/WA).

I think the hook is the ability to raise aggressively with good hands. Roger has indicated in the past that he tends to design "aggressive betting" games to get players adrenaline going, and it seems to be working here.

Design a 5 Card Stud game, drop a card and add the ability to let players press aggressively on good hands......Roger got to where he is by being a clever designer!
Buzzard
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December 21st, 2012 at 9:00:20 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Sorry for the math joke, but I'm afraid nobody noticed the OP.

One day, Jesus said to his disciples: "The Kingdom of Heaven is like 3x squared plus 8x minus 9."
A man who had just joined the disciples looked very confused and asked Peter: "What, on Earth, does he mean by that?"
Peter replied: "Don't worry - it's just another one of his parabolas."



And this will not draw a suspension, yet calling someone a nitwit ( followed by a smiley face) does.

Something does not seem fair !

I guess it's the old golden rule, " He who has the gold makes the rules "
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Wizard
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December 21st, 2012 at 10:38:19 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

And this will not draw a suspension, yet calling someone a nitwit ( followed by a smiley face) does.

Something does not seem fair !

I guess it's the old golden rule, " He who has the gold makes the rules "



Which rule did I allegedly break? If the rule about no thumbtacking, please see rule 9 in the forum rules, especially the part adding a joke.

If it is the rule about personal insults, I didn't even mean to insult Jesus or Peter, but if you think I did, they are not forum members, so insulting them is allowed.

Let me also making something perfectly clear. I am not above my own rules. If somebody thinks I broke a rule you may take it up with Mission. I'll submit to whatever sentence he thinks is appropriate. In fact, I will self-report this to him now, although I'm not sure what I did.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Zcore13
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December 21st, 2012 at 1:03:28 PM permalink
I play the game here and there in a Casino. It's not the most fun game in the world, but you can win a good amount in a short period of time if you get some cards with the 3x play bet. One thing to consider, most games are not as fun in the online simulation as compared to playing it live. There's just someone about touching the cards, discarding the ones you don't want, placing bets and grabbing winning chips that you can't get playing online just pushing the "deal" button.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Buzzard
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December 21st, 2012 at 1:21:01 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Which rule did I allegedly break? If the rule about no thumbtacking, please see rule 9 in the forum rules, especially the part adding a joke.

If it is the rule about personal insults, I didn't even mean to insult Jesus or Peter, but if you think I did, they are not forum members, so insulting them is allowed.

Let me also making something perfectly clear. I am not above my own rules. If somebody thinks I broke a rule you may take it up with Mission. I'll submit to whatever sentence he thinks is appropriate. In fact, I will self-report this to him now, although I'm not sure what I did.



I am sure Mission will apply the proper PUNishment. ( pun intended )
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Wulfgar1224
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April 10th, 2017 at 10:20:27 PM permalink
Quote: JB

Please try out the Wizard's new Crazy 4 Poker practice game.

If you are able to break it or encounter strange behavior with it, please reply to this thread.



I think that I may have found a bug in the game. I've been practicing for an upcoming trip to Vegas. I was horsing around and foolishly made a play bet with a Jack high instead of folding. The dealer had Queen high.

My understanding of the rules is that as a non-qualifying hand, I should have won the play bet, and pushed the ante and super bonus bets. The game took my ante and super bonus bets and pushed the play bet. I was wanting to see if you could check that out.
JB
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April 10th, 2017 at 10:43:29 PM permalink
Sorry, I am unable to reproduce the situation you describe.

I gaffed the game to deal the player a Jack-high and the dealer a Queen-high, and it correctly pushed the Ante and took the Play and Super Bonus bets. Upon closer inspection of the code (which you can also look at since it's in Javascript), the various scenarios are being handled correctly.

I suspect what happened is that, since the animations are rather fast, when it pushed the Ante you thought it pushed the Play bet.
Wulfgar1224
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April 10th, 2017 at 10:55:52 PM permalink
Quote: JB

Sorry, I am unable to reproduce the situation you describe.

I gaffed the game to deal the player a Jack-high and the dealer a Queen-high, and it correctly pushed the Ante and took the Play and Super Bonus bets. Upon closer inspection of the code (which you can also look at since it's in Javascript), the various scenarios are being handled correctly.

I suspect what happened is that, since the animations are rather fast, when it pushed the Ante you thought it pushed the Play bet.



I appreciate you responding but now I guess I am confused. You're probably right about the fast animation thing it might have pushed the ante and took the play and super bonus bets as you described. But, I thought that in that scenario since the dealer didn't have at least king high, the ante would push. But, the play bet should be paid and the super bonus should be a push, correct?
JB
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April 10th, 2017 at 10:58:55 PM permalink
Quote: Wulfgar1224

I appreciate you responding but now I guess I am confused. You're probably right about the fast animation thing it might have pushed the ante and took the play and super bonus bets as you described. But, I thought that in that scenario since the dealer didn't have at least king high, the ante would push. But, the play bet should be paid and the super bonus should be a push, correct?


The dealer didn't qualify, so the ante pushes. You didn't beat the dealer (you had Jack high, they had Queen high), so the Play bet loses. The Super Bonus also loses because you didn't beat the dealer and didn't have a Straight or higher.

The King-high qualifier only applies to the Ante bet; the other two simply compare the player hand to the dealer hand.

See Crazy 4 Poker for more information about how the bets are resolved.
Wulfgar1224
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April 11th, 2017 at 8:30:06 AM permalink
Quote: JB

The dealer didn't qualify, so the ante pushes. You didn't beat the dealer (you had Jack high, they had Queen high), so the Play bet loses. The Super Bonus also loses because you didn't beat the dealer and didn't have a Straight or higher.

The King-high qualifier only applies to the Ante bet; the other two simply compare the player hand to the dealer hand.




I guess the problem I'm having is that I'm seeing different information on several other websites. The wizardofodds site does have both the play and super bonus losing to a non qualifying dealer hand if the player has a lesser non qualifying hand like say a player Jack high and a dealer Queen high. But, that was last updated in 2012 on his site. Maybe they've changed the rules since then? Maybe casinos are allowed to take some liberties? I'm not sure. But, I'm heading to Vegas in June and am curious how this will play out. I guess I could always ask a dealer when I get there.

Here are an example of a couple of links that indicate the play bet is paid on a non qualifying dealer hand. I'm having trouble figuring out what happens to the Super bonus bet in that scenario. I realize this is a rare case. Plus, I will be playing proper K-Q-8-4 strategy. So, I won't have to worry about this happening to me at a casino. But, with all of the conflicting information I am seeing regarding this situation, it has me curious to what the official rules are. Is there an official site? Can casinos modify the rules like that?


http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/activities/game-rules/crazy-4-poker.pdf

https://www.riverscasino.com/pittsburgh/docs/librariesprovider4/rivers-pittsburgh-files/rivers-pittsburgh-table-games/rivp-4709_crazy4cardpoker_rackcardv3.pdf?sfvrsn=5
http://www.table-games-online.com/crazy-4-poker/rules.html
Wizard
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Wulfgar1224
April 17th, 2017 at 6:48:12 AM permalink
Sorry for my tardy reply to this issue. I was out of town the last week but JB mentioned it to me by Email. I concede the rules on my site were wrong about the situation where the player raises with less than king high and loses to the dealer. It seems he would win where I had him as losing. I just updated my site to correct this and also change the name of the Raise wager to the Play wager.

I contend that this change does not change any of the math or strategy since the player would never make the Play bet with less than king high. You might argue that the correct rule might induce the player to make the Play bet with less than king high, but just going on common sense, I doubt it.

I did that analysis years ago but as I vaguely recall, it agreed with a math report provided to me by ShuffleMaster, the game owners.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Dobrij
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April 17th, 2017 at 1:10:42 PM permalink
Hi ! : )

  cool game! : ) it's only in online or in land casinos happens?
Wizard
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April 17th, 2017 at 1:34:20 PM permalink
Quote: Dobrij

it's only in online or in land casinos happens?



I've seen it only in land casinos.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wulfgar1224
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April 17th, 2017 at 3:25:58 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Sorry for my tardy reply to this issue. I was out of town the last week but JB mentioned it to me by Email. I concede the rules on my site were wrong about the situation where the player raises with less than king high and loses to the dealer. It seems he would win where I had him as losing. I just updated my site to correct this and also change the name of the Raise wager to the Play wager.

I contend that this change does not change any of the math or strategy since the player would never make the Play bet with less than king high. You might argue that the correct rule might induce the player to make the Play bet with less than king high, but just going on common sense, I doubt it.

I did that analysis years ago but as I vaguely recall, it agreed with a math report provided to me by ShuffleMaster, the game owners.



I appreciate the response. I checked the website and the updates look good.
Vegasrider
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December 4th, 2019 at 12:16:41 PM permalink
The casino I frequently visit has recently introduced this game. I wss dissapointed that they opted to introduce a new game vs adding a 2nd UTH game. I'm finding he UTH game getting harder to play as its getting more crowded, especially the weekend. I have begged them to up the minimum bet from $5 to $10. Its hit and miss on the minimum, I always have to remind the supervisors.

Is this game worth learning? If I eead correctly the house edge is over 3%?
beachbumbabs
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December 4th, 2019 at 6:31:46 PM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

The casino I frequently visit has recently introduced this game. I wss dissapointed that they opted to introduce a new game vs adding a 2nd UTH game. I'm finding he UTH game getting harder to play as its getting more crowded, especially the weekend. I have begged them to up the minimum bet from $5 to $10. Its hit and miss on the minimum, I always have to remind the supervisors.

Is this game worth learning? If I eead correctly the house edge is over 3%?



I think it's worth learning. It was the first design from Roger Snow and (I think) Eliot Frome that used the ante/blind/play structure that became UTH. It's not as good a game as UTH, but it's not bad.

Maybe you should learn it, then encourage the UTH people to go play it. It's easier to learn. Get them out of your way on UTH. lol.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
ChumpChange
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April 29th, 2023 at 5:02:10 AM permalink
I'm going to try to play on the Wiz's site with $15 for the Ante & Super Bonus, then $25 on the Queens Up bet. If I wind up with a triple raise, that'd be a $100 total bet. If I get 4 of a kind, that'd pay out around $1.75K, and if I hit 4 Aces, that'd pay around $4.3K.
If I get up to a $180 base bet with $300 on the Queens Up, that'd top the $50K maximum payout locally by $1.6K or so for 4 Aces.
I'd probably buy-in for $1,500 to see how far I get. Winning the hands where I get a pair of Queens or better is where it's at. Winning the raised bets on a pair of Aces is even better. But if I lose the hand, I need a straight or better to win money on the hand.
I did get from $25K to $30K on the Wiz's site, but there's cold streaks that bring me back down again.
https://wizardofodds.com/play/crazy-4-poker/
There might be a Crazy 4 Poker near me, or maybe it's just a Crazy Poker. I didn't look too closely.

I played the Wiz's game at $500 per bet for less than 5 minutes and quickly ran it up from $25K to $50K, (or +50 units). If I hit 4 Aces on max bet, it would pay $127K, (or 254 units).


I played for another 20 minutes and hit my very first straight flush!


Ten & 20 minutes later I'm back down at $50K.
An hour later I've run out of money through an extended losing streak. Losing 50 hands in a row would be the equivalent.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Apr 29, 2023
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