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odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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Thanks for this post from:
Wulfgar1224
March 4th, 2017 at 3:38:49 AM permalink
I find you need something very simple as well, as a long pause to count the outs in the casino goes over like a lead balloon. Of course, you could get so good at it you wouldn't slow the game down, but as for me and how much I play, compare this method below.

Quote: Wulfgar1224

First hand.

My cards were 10H and 3S. I get that it is too weak to make the big raise so I checked.

The flop was 6H 7C 6C. I didn't have a hidden pair ,4 to a flush or two pair, so I checked again.

The turn and river were KH and JD. Here's how I counted the outs. 4 Aces, 3 Kings, 4 Queens, 3 Jacks, 2 6s, and 3 7s. I get 19 outs there. So, my instinct was to call that. Was that the proper thinking according to the simple strategy? I understand it is a close call and the EV on perfect strategy might say to fold. Any thoughts?

Essentially you want to know if your kicker tips the scale when the 21 outs is the situation. A king is a given, always call if that is in your hand. Then for what I will call the rundown method, the first over card or pair will mean a queen is a call, then you go to a jack, etc.

I run your first example down like this, with king->call as given, the -> symbol meaning 'the situation yields to this':

I see a pair -> queen is a call [don't have one of course]
then I see a king -> jack is a call [but also don't have a jack]
then I see a jack -> the 10 is a call and I have one

this is all much faster for me, your results may vary. Also, it may be less accurate, but I have found few problems. Your second hand does cause one though.

Quote:

Second hand:

My cards: 9S 2S....Check

Flop: 7D 8D QC...Check

turn and river: QD 7S

rundown:

I see pair Qs -> queen is a call. but this pair *is* 2 queens -> 10 is a call [can you follow that?]
I see pair 7s -> 9 is a call

if using this rundown method the complication of "but there are queens" clearly muddies the waters. The answer is wrong versus '21 outs' method.

If it is a close call the cost in EV is OK in my book. I wanted to run it past you since you titled your thread "easy is needed"

btw my understanding of the 21 outs is that you do not consider anything that needs 2 dealer cards as an out, such as the dealer possibly having 2 diamonds in the second example.
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Mar 4, 2017
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
Deucekies
Deucekies
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Thanks for this post from:
PaigowdanWulfgar1224
March 4th, 2017 at 12:52:47 PM permalink
My super-simple beginner's strategy.

Pre-flop:
Bet any pair, bet any Ace, bet any two faces.

On the flop or on the river:
If you hit the board, bet.

This strategy ignores betting K5-K9, Q8, Q9, and a few suited kings and queens. I bet that doesn't cost the new player too much in the short term. Then once the player gets the hang of that, introduce the other 4-bets.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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March 4th, 2017 at 2:59:17 PM permalink
A very decent, very quick-n-easy strategy. Good job.

If the average Joe played this way, the game would be played better than the way the general population currently plays it.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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Boz
March 4th, 2017 at 3:05:49 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

A very decent, very quick-n-easy strategy. Good job.

If the average Joe played this way, the game would be played better than the way the general population currently plays it.


The general population has no clue how to play this game.

Hell, they still can't play blackjack correct!!
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Zcore13
Zcore13 
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March 4th, 2017 at 3:31:24 PM permalink
I'd play any Ace and King kicker in my hand as well. And for each of those on the board, drop down another rank if it's in my hand.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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March 4th, 2017 at 6:48:55 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I'd play any Ace and King kicker in my hand as well. And for each of those on the board, drop down another rank if it's in my hand.

ZCore13


With an ace in your hand you should have already made a 4x bet.
The mountain is tall but the grass grows on top of the mountain.
Zcore13
Zcore13 
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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March 4th, 2017 at 9:31:00 PM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

With an ace in your hand you should have already made a 4x bet.



That's true. My bad.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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March 5th, 2017 at 4:05:24 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

...for each of those on the board, drop down another rank if it's in my hand.

ZCore13



what I was trying to say in my post - probably not written in an understandable way.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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March 5th, 2017 at 4:20:40 AM permalink
I am all in favor of simplified strategies though I am mindful of The Fearless Wizard's comment that the more simple a game is, the less 'bang for your buck' you are likely to be receiving. You all know that Fleastiff is mathematically challenged and that even BJ strategies are akin to astrophysics for him.



Oh, uh Dan..... New clothres, like dealer's uniforms, are not required of the players!
Wulfgar1224
Wulfgar1224
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March 5th, 2017 at 7:50:15 AM permalink
There have been some great suggestions and I appreciate them. I realize that simplifying strategy will sacrifice "bang for buck". But, I know myself. I think that I would have a hard time with the 21 out rule at a casino. I wouldn't be fast enough especially after drinking. It would bog down the table.

I do think I'll be able to memorize the strategy for the 4x bet before I head there in a couple of weeks. It is my understanding that is where the most critical mistakes are made. I'm probably going to play mostly tiles and PGP. But, I do think that I'll try to fit some Ultimate Texas Hold em as well.

I liked the suggestion about hitting the board on the flop and turn/river bets. I think that might work for me.

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