Switch
Switch
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October 5th, 2012 at 7:05:29 PM permalink
Mike has kindly allowed me to post my Free Bet Blackjack facebook link in case anyone wishes to be kept informed of new installations and other news concerning the game.

It's easier for me to update this page regularly rather than updating the actual Free Bet website.

facebook.com/freebetblackjack

Please feel free to add comments etc if you do decide to visit.

Thanks.
Zcore13
Zcore13
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:18:40 PM permalink
Hi Switch,

Is Free Bet your game? I know Shuffle Master has it now. I played it at G2E and found it to be very entertaining. Nice job if it was your baby.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
CrystalMath
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:33:16 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Hi Switch,

Is Free Bet your game? I know Shuffle Master has it now. I played it at G2E and found it to be very entertaining. Nice job if it was your baby.

ZCore13



Was there a tall English man showing you the game? If so, you met Switch. I really enjoyed the game as well. Well done Switch.
I heart Crystal Math.
Zcore13
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:36:43 PM permalink
No, it was a hot model/dealer. I don't think I would have traded. :)

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
bigfoot66
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October 8th, 2012 at 3:07:14 PM permalink
Liked
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Switch
Switch
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October 8th, 2012 at 4:44:43 PM permalink
Thank you for the comments and also to those who have gone to the facebook page - much appreciated!

One of the the dealers on the game at G2E is actually one of the models they used for their electronic 3CP - in fact, all of the dealers on Free Bet did a great job at the show.
THESWEENEY
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November 15th, 2012 at 4:59:56 PM permalink
Come on Geoff, update this thread with the latest addition to FBBJ.
Buzzard
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November 15th, 2012 at 5:24:45 PM permalink
Quote: Switch

Thank you for the comments and also to those who have gone to the facebook page - much appreciated!

One of the the dealers on the game at G2E is actually one of the models they used for their electronic 3CP - in fact, all of the dealers on Free Bet did a great job at the show.




And there was the dealer at G2E with the long blonde hair. She had no dealing experience prior, but was well trained, probably by Roger. She always remembered to hit her 17. Usually it was a 10 value card and a 7. LOL
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Switch
Switch
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November 15th, 2012 at 7:22:13 PM permalink
Quote: THESWEENEY

Come on Geoff, update this thread with the latest addition to FBBJ.




Nice to finally 'bump' into you at The Rainbow Casino tonight :-)

Most of the updates are on the Facebook page, however, I will be training at The Mirage from Nov 26th - Dec 2nd, followed by Casino Royale the week after and Free Bet will be placed in both of those properties at that time.

I also completed a dealer training video today and will wait for the editing before providing a link for anyone to see - it should take around a week to be ready.
THESWEENEY
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November 15th, 2012 at 7:45:21 PM permalink
.....and the game has been complemented with the addition of an elegant and simple new side bet.
bigfoot66
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November 15th, 2012 at 10:07:01 PM permalink
Quote: THESWEENEY

.....and the game has been complemented with the addition of an elegant and simple new side bet.


Do Tell...
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Switch
Switch
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November 16th, 2012 at 5:07:08 AM permalink
It's basically a side wager to allow you to bet on the dealer ending up with a total of 22.

There are 3 payouts depending if the 22 is:-

Regular 8/1 (US) 10/1(UK)
Same color 20/1 (US) 17/1(UK)
Same suit 50/1 (US) 35/1 (UK)

The difference in payouts is due to the UK rules being 'Stand Soft 17' and the US rules being 'Hit Soft 17' as this slightly increases the chance of a dealer 22.
DJTeddyBear
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November 16th, 2012 at 5:29:35 AM permalink
I never knew that was a US/UK thing. I always though it was more of a difference between low limit and high limit tables...
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Buzzard
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November 16th, 2012 at 5:57:32 AM permalink
What are current US rules on splitting 4's and/or 5's, might I ask ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
THESWEENEY
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November 16th, 2012 at 8:22:12 AM permalink
At the risk of sounding like a pedant, is there any particular reason why you chose to have 'the dealer' showing a seven on the rack card? Personally I'd have opted for a six as I think, at a glance, it excites and appeals to the layman more than the former.

On a side note, I think you should run a caption competition for the picture at the top of the Wizard's WOO Free Bet Blackjack page, awarding a gold coin to the winner.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/free-bet-blackjack/

I have several good suggestions. Alas, none of them are printable!
AcesAndEights
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November 16th, 2012 at 8:39:30 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

What are current US rules on splitting 4's and/or 5's, might I ask ?


Pretty sure you can split them if you want, but the FREE BET is not provided - you have to front your own money.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Buzzard
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November 16th, 2012 at 8:55:56 AM permalink
Yeah, I will be splitting them 5's with my own money . LOL
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Switch
Switch
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November 16th, 2012 at 9:52:38 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

What are current US rules on splitting 4's and/or 5's, might I ask ?



The Vegas rules will be that you can Free Split on 4's and 5's but you should Free Double 5, 5 instead.
Switch
Switch
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November 16th, 2012 at 9:55:15 AM permalink
Quote: THESWEENEY

At the risk of sounding like a pedant, is there any particular reason why you chose to have 'the dealer' showing a seven on the rack card? Personally I'd have opted for a six as I think, at a glance, it excites and appeals to the layman more than the former.

On a side note, I think you should run a caption competition for the picture at the top of the Wizard's WOO Free Bet Blackjack page, awarding a gold coin to the winner.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/free-bet-blackjack/

I have several good suggestions. Alas, none of them are printable!



I like that idea, may follow up on that. The picture is very good but I can imagine some x-rated captions being sent in.

I'm re-designing the rack cards and I agree with your suggestion and my well change the dealer up-card if I continue to use that particular example.
teliot
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November 16th, 2012 at 10:02:07 AM permalink
Quote: Switch

It's basically a side wager to allow you to bet on the dealer ending up with a total of 22.

There are 3 payouts depending if the 22 is:-

Regular 8/1 (US) 10/1(UK)
Same color 20/1 (US) 17/1(UK)
Same suit 50/1 (US) 35/1 (UK)

The difference in payouts is due to the UK rules being 'Stand Soft 17' and the US rules being 'Hit Soft 17' as this slightly increases the chance of a dealer 22.

I approximated a hefty house edge on this side bet for the US version. What do you get?

My concern is that this bet is countable if the edge is too low. A significant edge is necessary to make it safe from APs. On the other hand, too high of an edge will make it unfriendly to players.

Clearly, the bet moves towards the player as Aces are removed from the deck. It moves away from the player as 2's are removed from the deck. The 6 is the next most important card. I computed the full EOR's but won't fully analyze it until it goes live.

I'd be careful on this one, Geoff.
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
Switch
Switch
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November 16th, 2012 at 11:05:57 AM permalink
The US house edge is 5.86% so not too high - the UK is 3.75% although in the UK you are limited to the side bet by the amount of your Blackjack wager (as well as being £25 max' bet for the side wager).

Stephen How did some count analysis on the '22' and it does give a decent edge, on a few occasions, but this is lowered by restricting the side bet to the size of the player's Blackjack wager. I will suggest that they do this in the US along with introducing a $100 max' limit. If I remember correctly, the player could attain around 1.6% edge at times (22 edge minus the added blackjack disadvantage) by using a specific count tailored to the A, 2, 6 as you suggested - however, unless a casino uses huge limits, I'm hoping that it would not be worthwhile.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts Eliot and will be keeping an eye on the figures now that it has been released in the UK.
RoyalBJ
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November 21st, 2012 at 8:08:29 AM permalink
Is the game at Golden Nuggett, Vegas, now?
Switch
Switch
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November 22nd, 2012 at 12:28:09 PM permalink
Quote: RoyalBJ

Is the game at Golden Nuggett, Vegas, now?



Unfortunately no, it still needs Nevada Gaming approval and this will take around a week to complete.

I'll be in Vegas next week so I'm hoping that it will be approved by next weekend.
Switch
Switch
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November 22nd, 2012 at 12:30:38 PM permalink
For anyone who is interested, I have just completed a Free Bet Dealing Procedure Video which was filmed at my local casino.

Here's the link for anyone who wishes to watch it:-

Free Bet Dealing Procedure Video
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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November 22nd, 2012 at 2:38:55 PM permalink
Watched the video, very well done. I did not hear any mention of free doubles on 3 card totals so I assume that is out?

Edit: Also watched the video of Henri, he is very cute!
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DJTeddyBear
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November 22nd, 2012 at 3:24:13 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

I did not hear any mention of free doubles on 3 card totals so I assume that is out?


Was that option EVER available?

I'd assume not since that's not an option on regular blackjack...
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Switch
Switch
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November 22nd, 2012 at 4:06:22 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Watched the video, very well done. I did not hear any mention of free doubles on 3 card totals so I assume that is out?

Edit: Also watched the video of Henri, he is very cute!



Yes, the multi-card doubles have been exchanged for free splitting 4's as the main variant. You may still find the multi-card version around but not in Vegas.

Thanks for watching (and also the Henri comment :-) ).
Buzzard
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November 22nd, 2012 at 4:46:20 PM permalink
Josie is looking forward to Jan 13, 2013 Academy Award Nominations will be announced. The best actor in a training film is of particular interest to her !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
bigfoot66
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November 22nd, 2012 at 9:52:23 PM permalink
Quote: Switch

Yes, the multi-card doubles have been exchanged for free splitting 4's as the main variant. You may still find the multi-card version around but not in Vegas.

Thanks for watching (and also the Henri comment :-) ).



You are most welcome. I have to think that multi card doubling is has more EV for the player than splitting 4's, but simpler rules are better than more complicated rules.
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AcesAndEights
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November 22nd, 2012 at 10:05:53 PM permalink
Quote: Switch

Unfortunately no, it still needs Nevada Gaming approval and this will take around a week to complete.

I'll be in Vegas next week so I'm hoping that it will be approved by next weekend.


Wait I'm confused, wasn't it already at the Golden Nugget?

Oh, I'm guessing it was the rules change, requiring re-approval.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
bigfoot66
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November 22nd, 2012 at 10:15:22 PM permalink
I may be wrong but I believe there is a process where a game gets partial approval and goes in for a field trial of a couple months and then they fully approve it after that, and the GN install was that field trial.
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98Clubs
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November 22nd, 2012 at 10:53:45 PM permalink
Jeez... IF no multi-card Free-double the HE gains 0.60%. By allowing Split 4's as Free Double the HE is -0.24% for a HE gain of +0.36%
According to WoO the initial HE is 0.79%... Adding 0.36% is a HE of 1.15%.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
Switch
Switch
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November 23rd, 2012 at 5:57:53 AM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

You are most welcome. I have to think that multi card doubling is has more EV for the player than splitting 4's, but simpler rules are better than more complicated rules.



Correct on both accounts. The house edge, with surrender, was too low on the initial game so it needed to be raised a little plus it now follows the regular game of Blackjack more closely so it's easier to train the dealers.
Switch
Switch
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November 23rd, 2012 at 6:00:29 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Wait I'm confused, wasn't it already at the Golden Nugget?

Oh, I'm guessing it was the rules change, requiring re-approval.



Yes, whenever the rules are tweaked, after the initial approval of the game, you have to apply for a variation of a variation :-)

Unfortunately, this takes longer to do now as you also need GLI approval before applying to Nevada Gaming.
Switch
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November 23rd, 2012 at 6:06:35 AM permalink
Quote: 98Clubs

Jeez... IF no multi-card Free-double the HE gains 0.60%. By allowing Split 4's as Free Double the HE is -0.24% for a HE gain of +0.36%
According to WoO the initial HE is 0.79%... Adding 0.36% is a HE of 1.15%.



You're correct in that the rule change adds over 0.3% to the house edge. However, the version at The Nugget, with surrender, had a house edge of just over 0.4%, which was too low particularly as Free Bet reduces player errors slightly in the game.

The choice was to remove surrender or go for the rule change. As the change actually mimics regular Blackjack more closely it was decided to do the latter.

So the new house edge at the Golden Nugget will be 0.79% (which is possibly where Mike got his number from) ... however, casinos that do not give the surrender option will be working on a house edge around 1% and even higher if they do not allow re-split Aces as well.
Buzzard
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November 23rd, 2012 at 8:33:47 AM permalink
I think the house edge should be higher. Or in the words of W C Fields " Never smarten up a chump." And I am indeed serious.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
THESWEENEY
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November 23rd, 2012 at 9:22:38 AM permalink
Reference the UK version, you state at approximately five minutes into the video - "The blackjacks would already have been paid out at full odds prior to this." As you know Geoff, this will not be case if the dealer is holding a ten or an ace. So, should the dealer bust to 22 from either of said cards, what is the rule for BJs in this instance, still paid at 3-2 or push?

On a side note, I think Hollywood beckons for Rob Adams.
Switch
Switch
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November 23rd, 2012 at 12:07:38 PM permalink
:-) I'll pass that onto rob hehe

In the UK you would still get paid out if you had a 'Blackjack' and the dealer turns a '22' with either a 10 or Ace.
AxiomOfChoice
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November 25th, 2012 at 9:52:09 AM permalink
Quote: 98Clubs

Jeez... IF no multi-card Free-double the HE gains 0.60%. By allowing Split 4's as Free Double the HE is -0.24% for a HE gain of +0.36%
According to WoO the initial HE is 0.79%... Adding 0.36% is a HE of 1.15%.



This is too bad. I was looking forward to trying it (and probably will, briefly) but I don't see myself playing a blackjack variant with over a 1% edge when there are lots of blackjack games with sub-0.3% edges available.

I'm not sure that I believe the part about surrender. I believe that surrender increases the house's profits since people either never surrender, so it doesn't matter, or they surrender way too much (eg, 13s against 7s). Keeping surrender and losing the multi-card free doubles is win-win for the house.
Paradigm
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November 25th, 2012 at 11:41:18 AM permalink
My guess is the target audience for Free Bet is not BJ players that seek to find BJ tables with sub 0.3% HE. Variants are designed to introduce variety and fun for players That are willing to play at a slightly higher HE as they enjoy the different options available in the variant.

The way Geoff modified the rules with surrender, the game still has a 0.79% HE and that is a lot better than playing a 6/5 BJ Game and I am certain that Geoff & Roger would be excited if every one of those tables became Free Bet tables instead.

New games are designed to make more money per hour for the house. Successful ones offer a more enjoyable player experience for which players are willing to pay more to play.
Buzzard
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November 25th, 2012 at 11:58:42 AM permalink
I notice the players did not tip in the video. SHAME !

Seriously, can I assume the same gold coin covers the players bet and tip ?

I ask because I am currently giving private lessons to a wannabe dealer !

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shufflemaster/8068467149/in/photostream/
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AxiomOfChoice
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November 27th, 2012 at 1:07:23 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

My guess is the target audience for Free Bet is not BJ players that seek to find BJ tables with sub 0.3% HE. Variants are designed to introduce variety and fun for players That are willing to play at a slightly higher HE as they enjoy the different options available in the variant.

The way Geoff modified the rules with surrender, the game still has a 0.79% HE and that is a lot better than playing a 6/5 BJ Game and I am certain that Geoff & Roger would be excited if every one of those tables became Free Bet tables instead.

New games are designed to make more money per hour for the house. Successful ones offer a more enjoyable player experience for which players are willing to pay more to play.



I get that. It would be nice if the money lasted a while, though.

FWIW, I'm sure that the actual house edge will be much higher than the theoretical HE (ie, players will make lots of mistakes and lose a lot more than 0.8%). I continue to believe that allowing surrender increases the house's win. Also, BJ is a very fast-paced game so the low HE numbers are deceiving (in terms of how much money the house makes per hour).
AxiomOfChoice
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November 27th, 2012 at 1:12:30 AM permalink
Also, to clarify, I'd play if it was 0.8%. My understanding from the post about the modification was that it changed the HE to 1.15%. IMO that is too high for a fast-paced game like blackjack. I'll still try it (I'll try pretty much any game) but it won't be a regular game for me. It probably would have been, had the rules remained better. This is basically a 43% price increase.
Switch
Switch
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November 27th, 2012 at 2:16:29 AM permalink
Just to clarify, the new version has approx' house edges of :-

0.79% if Surrender and re-split Aces are allowed
1.02% if no Surrender and re-split Aces allowed
1.11% if no surrender and re-split Aces not allowed

Bearing in mind that the doubling and splitting errors are reduced (providing a player takes all free bets) then, unlike 'Switch', the house edge needs to be higher than the regular game to offset this.
THESWEENEY
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November 27th, 2012 at 7:09:20 AM permalink
What is the house edge for the UK version, and the 22 side bet?
Paradigm
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November 27th, 2012 at 8:26:53 AM permalink
Quote: Switch

Just to clarify, the new version has approx' house edges of :-

0.79% if Surrender and re-split Aces are allowed
1.02% if no Surrender and re-split Aces allowed
1.11% if no surrender and re-split Aces not allowed



I vote for allowing Surrender but no re-split of Aces as the preferred version. It is the exception when you have a BJ table thal allow re-split of Aces, so that would play more like regular BJ.

Switch, does that get the house edge to 0.88%? With expected average player errors (i.e. players simply taking all the free doubles/splits, but missing the occasional double down opportunity and other common BS errors), what do you think the non-optimal play HE will be for an average player?
Buzzard
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November 27th, 2012 at 9:37:48 AM permalink
My uneducated vote goes for no-surrender and no re-splitting of ACES. 99 out of a hundred players don't care a bit about surrender.
No res-plitting of Aces is the norm as it is. FREE BET is the hook in this game.

Which means those 99 players will make very few mistakes on doubling-down and splitting. Also the player's bankroll will be less of
a factor. I can not speak for Vegas, but in Colorado SWITCH had very little appeal. Whether it was the requirement to play 2 hands or
players being scared of a new strategy, I know not. I do know that FREE is a key word in marketing to consumers.

One must always remember that in general forum members have only played 6/5 BJ when drunk or wanting to sit next to a hot babe.
Yet 6/5 BJ has been the fastest growing BJ game the past years and shows no signs of slowing down !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AcesAndEights
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November 27th, 2012 at 11:32:00 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

One must always remember that in general forum members have only played 6/5 BJ when drunk or wanting to sit next to a hot babe.


Or taking advantage of a weak dealer...
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Buzzard
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November 27th, 2012 at 11:36:23 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Or taking advantage of a weak dealer...




SHHHHH ! please. It's Dan's nap time.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AxiomOfChoice
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November 27th, 2012 at 8:51:47 PM permalink
Quote: Switch

Just to clarify, the new version has approx' house edges of :-

0.79% if Surrender and re-split Aces are allowed
1.02% if no Surrender and re-split Aces allowed
1.11% if no surrender and re-split Aces not allowed

Bearing in mind that the doubling and splitting errors are reduced (providing a player takes all free bets) then, unlike 'Switch', the house edge needs to be higher than the regular game to offset this.



I don't mean to attack your new game. I understand that a lot of work goes into developing a game, and I like the version that you originally came up with. Also, I like blackjack switch a lot. I feel that the HE of 0.58% is reasonable, and the switching decision actually requires some thought (I have not attempted to memorize a strategy; I just try to figure it out on the fly). I would actually be interested to know how many mistakes I make and how much they cost me. I feel that I understand the game of blackjack fairly well and probably don't make too many mistakes (and the ones that I do get wrong are probably very close, and therefore very cheap). If not, my arrogance is just padding the casino's coffers :) I remember when the only place to find BJ switch on the strip was at Casino Royale; I used to go there just to play that and maybe play some 100x odds craps. I was very happy when the game made it to "real" strip casinos -- I like to play the game, but I also like to drink good drinks while I play :)

It's too bad that Free Bet BJ didn't survive with good rules, like BJ Switch did.

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