KY Derby & Triple Crown 2023

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the field is set for the Derby this coming Saturday - see link - always fun and a great spectacle
tons of soft money - people who only bet horses on those 3 days - betting lucky numbers, names and longshots
logical contenders should get decent odds - it's not the typical day where it's shark vs. shark
young horses - just 3 years old - one or more may make a big improvement - just about impossible to predict which ones

the wall of speed - the frontrunners - should collapse - at 1.25 miles it's well further than any of them have ever run

the race will prolly be won by a stalker or closer who conserved energy - the downside for them is that they may get bumped or blocked - horses don't have to stay in lanes

jockey skill is much more critical in a race like this than a typical race with 8 entries - this race is long, and has 20 entries

the morning line fave - Forte - 3/1 - is indeed a very tough closer - he's won 6 out of his first 7 races - in his last race on the chart he earned the very positive comment of "surged" - chart writers are stingy with very positive comments

his jock, Irad Ortiz Jr. is gifted - he's the no. 1 jock in the country in earnings for 2022 and so far for 2023

glta



https://www.equibase.com/static/entry/CD050623USA12-EQB.html


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I can honestly say I’ve heard less build up about this race than any Kentucky Derby in my lifetime. I think the easy availability of alternate legal sports betting options has put another nail in the coffin of horse racing.

Quote: SOOPOO

I can honestly say I’ve heard less build up about this race than any Kentucky Derby in my lifetime. I think the easy availability of alternate legal sports betting options has put another nail in the coffin of horse racing.

horse racing is in decline but not remotely close to being dead

$874 million was wagered in the U.S. in January of 2023

the small tracks may be hurting - not so much the big tracks

at Santa Anita this past Friday on race 9 - the very lowest kind of race - Maiden Claiming - horses that have never won and can be bought cheaply -

over half a million was wagered on that one cheap race

there will be front page of the sports pages coverage of the Derby later in the week

it's not what it used to be - but still - very exciting to me and many others - to me betting on sports is boring compared to betting on horses - but that's just me

.

Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: SOOPOO

I can honestly say I’ve heard less build up about this race than any Kentucky Derby in my lifetime. I think the easy availability of alternate legal sports betting options has put another nail in the coffin of horse racing.

horse racing is in decline but not remotely close to being dead

$874 million was wagered in the U.S. in January of 2023

the small tracks may be hurting - not so much the big tracks

at Santa Anita this past Friday on race 9 - the very lowest kind of race - Maiden Claiming - horses that have never won and can be bought cheaply -

over half a million was wagered on that one cheap race

there will be front page of the sports pages coverage of the Derby later in the week

it's not what it used to be - but still - very exciting to me and many others - to me betting on sports is boring compared to betting on horses - but that's just me

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link to original post

My wife and I used to go to Del Mar every year the last Sunday of the season. Neither of us are horse racing fans but it is always an event we enjoy.
I bet between $5 and $10 a race while the wife sticks to her $2 tickets.

I bet $20 to win on Angel of Empire his last race and told myself I would parlay the winnings on him in the derby. He paid $11.40 when he won the Arkansas derby so I will have $94 to win on him Saturday

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I've been betting horses for many years
have quit many times but always came back to it
had a couple of winning years but overall I'm down - but only a little bit

recently changed my strategy - bet very, very few races and only on the weekends
and only on stakes races when the best horses are running - they are much more consistent - and imo much more predictable

since I've changed I've been doing well - have won several bets in a row
too early to say that I could actually be a winner at this game but I'm hopeful
as unrealistic as that may be

what you're up against at the track is what they said in that old Lays potato chip commercial

you might have one or 2 really good bets - but "nobody can eat just one" - that's what I'm trying to do - eat just one - or very, very, few

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I'm fairly often a chalk eater and I will be again today

going to bet #15 Forte to show - a truly wimpy bet - should about double my money if the bet scores

I think he will score unless he gets badly bumped or blocked mid pack - he could be forced very wide on the turns

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Forte was just scratched.

I hardly ever bet horses but I enjoy attempting to analyze the daily racing form. I’m planning to take a flyer on Mandarin Hero.

Quote: lilredrooster

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I'm fairly often a chalk eater and I will be again today

going to bet #15 Forte to show - a truly wimpy bet - should about double my money if the bet scores

I think he will score unless he gets badly bumped or blocked mid pack - he could be forced very wide on the turns

.link to original post

He scored, all right - $2 to win, $2 to place, and $2 to show...

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the horse I like was scratched - so I'm going to take a flyer

a $1.00 exacta box with 6 horses costing $30

3,6,7,8,14 and 17____________13 minutes to post

glta


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.

Finish:


8 wins_________3 got 2nd___________nice payout______________$1.00 exacta paid___________ $165.22

.

Quote: lilredrooster

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the horse I like was scratched - so I'm going to take a flyer

a $1.00 exacta box with 6 horses costing $30

3,6,7,8,14 and 17____________13 minutes to post

glta


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link to original post

Paid $165 for a $1 bet - not shabby

From the Associated Press...

Quote:

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) — A horse died Sunday after a race at Churchill Downs, making it the eighth fatality in recent weeks at the home of the Kentucky Derby.

Rio Moon “suffered a catastrophic injury to his left foreleg a few strides after the wire,” according to notes in the Equibase chart for the sixth race.

The 3-year-old colt ridden by Martin Garcia was euthanized, the chart said. Rio Moon was trained by Dale Romans and was winless in six career starts with earnings of $11,621.

Two horses were euthanized after being injured in races on the Kentucky Derby undercard on May 6. Five others were euthanized after training and racing incidents at the track in the days leading up to the Derby.

Trainer Saffie Joseph Jr. was indefinitely suspended by Churchill Downs during Derby week after two of his horses collapsed on the track and died. Kentucky racing officials scratched his Derby entry, Lord Miles, too.

I'd say they were lucky that that a Derby horse didn't die as this story remains back burner news.

Quote: lilredrooster

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Finish:


8 wins_________3 got 2nd___________nice payout______________$1.00 exacta paid___________ $165.22

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link to original post

WtF NO HEADS Up? I wouldn't bet at least 100.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: lilredrooster

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Finish:


8 wins_________3 got 2nd___________nice payout______________$1.00 exacta paid___________ $165.22

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link to original post

WtF NO HEADS Up? I wouldn't bet at least 100.
link to original post

didn't know you were interested in betting horses

anyway - I didn't see any bet I thought was really good - I liked a horse who was scratched - this was a flyer - just pure luck - check Saturday this thread - maybe I'll see something for the Preakness

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Preakness - 8 minutes to post - the fave #3 - Mage - is a very obvious pick - they're letting him go at 8/5 - I'm betting him to place

if this was a typical day with just sharks vs. sharks this horse would have been bet way down

all the soft money loving up the longshots is the reason for this

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A friend's first published comic book was called Mage, and he is supposed to have put $100 across the board on the horse. Had I been paying any attention, I'd have thrown a few dollars on the name.

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woops

not the 1st time I've been wrong - won't be the last -

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a Bob Baffert trained horse won the Preakness
before that a Baffert horse was injured in a race and had to be euthanized -
the horse was bumped out of the gate losing ground immediately then later tripped, threw the jock, and kept running with an injury to his leg - which resulted in a fatal injury to his ankle
much of the press is trying to blame Baffert for that - to tie that incident to other incidents involving drugs where Baffert has previously been sanctioned

this is nonsense
a horse having to be euthanized is a sad thing
but Baffert is not blameworthy re this

it's an example of the media sensationalizing something that doesn't deserve to be sensationalized

sportswriters getting their stories published about horse racing who don't know what they're talking about

.

Quote: lilredrooster

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a Bob Baffert trained horse won the Preakness
before that a Baffert horse was injured in a race and had to be euthanized -
the horse was bumped out of the gate losing ground immediately then later tripped, threw the jock, and kept running with an injury to his leg - which resulted in a fatal injury to his ankle
much of the press is trying to blame Baffert for that - to tie that incident to other incidents involving drugs where Baffert has previously been sanctioned

this is nonsense
a horse having to be euthanized is a sad thing
but Baffert is not blameworthy re this

it's an example of the media sensationalizing something that doesn't deserve to be sensationalized

sportswriters getting their stories published about horse racing who don't know what they're talking about




Just a big co-inky-dink. Nothing to see here.... an isolated incident.......doesn't everyone deserve the benefit of the doubt?
Just because supposedly healthy young horses keep turning up dead doesn't mean the man in charge is responsible.
Yeah, that's the ticket.

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link to original post

Quote: lilredrooster

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a Bob Baffert trained horse won the Preakness
before that a Baffert horse was injured in a race and had to be euthanized -
the horse was bumped out of the gate losing ground immediately then later tripped, threw the jock, and kept running with an injury to his leg - which resulted in a fatal injury to his ankle
much of the press is trying to blame Baffert for that - to tie that incident to other incidents involving drugs where Baffert has previously been sanctioned

this is nonsense
a horse having to be euthanized is a sad thing
but Baffert is not blameworthy re this

it's an example of the media sensationalizing something that doesn't deserve to be sensationalized

sportswriters getting their stories published about horse racing who don't know what they're talking about

.
link to original post

It’s an indictment of the entire industry more than an indictment of Baffert. That horse would be doing fine had they not saddled it up, placed a human on top, had it try and run as fast as possible in heavy traffic with other horses trying to do the same. Probably already having learned that if it doesn’t run as fast as possible it gets whipped. What could go wrong?

Quote: SOOPOO

It’s an indictment of the entire industry more than an indictment of Baffert. That horse would be doing fine had they not saddled it up, placed a human on top, had it try and run as fast as possible in heavy traffic with other horses trying to do the same. Probably already having learned that if it doesn’t run as fast as possible it gets whipped. What could go wrong?
link to original post

it's ironical to me that so many humans get very upset when horses get severely injured

since so few get very upset about humans absorbing tremendous punishment in sports such as MMA or boxing or football and risk CTE and other forms of trauma

a boxer can be hit in the head dozens of times in just one fight

per the link Tony Jeffries estimates that during his 17 year career he was hit in the head 40 to 50,000 times - although that does seem to be quite a high number

of course, there is a difference - horses don't choose to be racehorses - they are in the care of humans

and humans can do better caring for them - but I don't believe, and there is not a general consensus that racing should be banned because of the risks

in his very first post in the "sports betting chatter" thread Soopoo showed his excitement about his college football bets - he wasn't worrying about any of the players - as young as 18 years old - getting smashed in the head several times

to be fair, I haven't expressed concern about that stuff either - except here - and I posted about a boxing match yesterday



.https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/27/time-to-find-out-who-cares-boxing-brain-damage-tris-dixon

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Just once, strictly for benefit of the normal people looking in who I know lurk occasionally but naturally don't care to sign in to the the weird dying forum/clubhouse side of this site, as I (along with many) have learned to have less than zero interest in trying to continue any kind of a dialog here. And with my apologies for what will be an annoying simpleton tone for those who've ever actually been around horses...

The lifespan of a wild horse averages about 15 years. And during that time, they crowd together, and run around. The lifespan of a domesticated horse is about 25-30 years (but tends to be a bit longer when lucky enough to be a valuable pampered racehorse, stallion, or broodmare receiving much more frequent, extensive, and better quality medical attention than most average people, say from getting "health care" by showing up in the ER with a Medicaid card at a public hospital in Buffalo.)

Quote: SOOPOO

<SNIP>...try and run as fast as possible in heavy traffic with other horses trying to do the same...<SNIP>
link to original post

You just described what wild horses naturally do. And are doing right now. All over the world. As they did before any humans existed. All on their own, if they never get cozy with a human or have their lifespan doubled as a racehorse. Someone with any actual interest in the subject would also notice that it is what they commonly do after a rider falls off during a human sponsored race. They usually continue with the race, until stopped by people. Someone may not have noticed from all their experience with horses running around Buffalo NY, but horses do not have fangs, claws, horns, wings, shells, stingers, tusks, or hands for making and using weapons. What they do is this: they run away from stuff. All sorts of stuff, even without a need to do that.

And bunching up together and running around is also what they do for fun, because it is what they like and want, as the psychological/emotional consequence of their evolutionary path to avoid becoming dinner. They have evolved a physical ability and desire to run fast, far. And that is what they do, and they seek to do it together in large herds. It is both their means of survival as well as how they establish status and reproductive priority among others. And the same physical characteristics that insure herd survival by running fast and long together in a large group also make an individual's forelegs, ankles, and some other aspects extremely fragile. A stubbed toe or sprained ankle in a human is routinely a fatal catastrophic break-down event for a horse, while doing what they like to do on their own without human intervention. As anybody with any even slight acquaintance with horses or much sincere interest in them is already well aware.

There are certainly some significant criticisms that could reasonably be made about this sport. But this is not among them. And those that are couldn't be discussed in this particular venue without budgeting for some excessive hot water bills from the extra showers that would inevitably become necessary.

And the fevered fantasy above about the use and effect of a riding crop is too spectacularly ludicrous for a civil reply.

A boxer chooses to box and can quit whenever he wants. As can a football player of any age.
A horse obviously can't.
If Vince McMahon, as an example, was pumping wrestlers full of chemicals without their consent and they were dropping dead in the ring, he'd be in prison.

Quote:

another nail in the coffin
link to original post

Pari-Mutuel Handle
UNITED STATES*
Year.....OnTrack...OffTrack...Total
2012........1,239.....9,643....10,882
2013........1,185.....9,692....10,877
2015........1,122.....9,553....10,675
2016........1,058.....9,686....10,744
2017........1,041.....9,868....10,909
2018..........999....10,268....11,267
2019..........911....10,126....11,037
2020..........671....11,545....12,216
2022..........892....11,212....12,104
* Dollars in millions

Quote: https://www.legalsportsbetting.com/news/2023-kentucky-derby-sets-records-for-handle-on-derby-day-05-08-2023/

2023 Kentucky Derby Sets Records for Handle on Derby Day

>The 149th Kentucky Derby Race set a handle record at $188.7 million.
>An additional $100 million was wagered on other races in the Kentucky Derby Day program, marking a new record.
>The Derby Week handle also set a record in 2023, receiving over $400 million in wagers.

LOUISVILLE, Ky. – Churchill Downs Incorporated announced that wagers from all-sources set handle records for the 149th Kentucky Derby race, the Kentucky Derby Week, and the Kentucky Derby Day Program races.

This Kentucky Derby main race was the most wagered in its history, earning a handle of $188.7 million from all sources.

The Derby also set a record handle of $288.7 million for the Kentucky Derby Day program. This year’s event surpassed the record set in 2022 at $273.8 million.

The Derby Week handle was $412 million, over $20 million more than last year’s event.

The official sportsbook of the Kentucky Derby, TwinSpires, only received 25% of the total handle wagered on the Kentucky Derby Day program. With a record handle of $73.6 million for the betting partner, the prominence of online horse betting was displayed at the biggest event of the year. ...<SNIP>...

Quote: billryan

A boxer chooses to box and can quit whenever he wants. As can a football player of any age.

that's true but it's also the responsibility of the society as a whole to consider whether an activity should be allowed

we as a society have chosen to allow boxing and MMA to be legal - if a great # of athletes are severely harmed then the society is guilty of neglect imo

bare knuckle boxing has been illegal everywhere in the U.S. until Wyoming legalized it in 2018 - it has been deemed just too dangerous

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Quote: DrawingDead

Just once, strictly for benefit of the normal people looking in who I know lurk occasionally but naturally don't care to sign in to the the weird dying forum/clubhouse side of this site, as I (along with many) have learned to have less than zero interest in trying to continue any kind of a dialog here. And with my apologies for what will be an annoying simpleton tone for those who've ever actually been around horses...

The lifespan of a wild horse averages about 15 years. And during that time, they crowd together, and run around. The lifespan of a domesticated horse is about 25-30 years (but tends to be a bit longer when lucky enough to be a valuable pampered racehorse, stallion, or broodmare receiving much more frequent, extensive, and better quality medical attention than most average people, say from getting "health care" by showing up in the ER with a Medicaid card at a public hospital in Buffalo.)

Quote: SOOPOO

<SNIP>...try and run as fast as possible in heavy traffic with other horses trying to do the same...<SNIP>
link to original post

You just described what wild horses naturally do. And are doing right now. All over the world. As they did before any humans existed. All on their own, if they never get cozy with a human or have their lifespan doubled as a racehorse. Someone with any actual interest in the subject would also notice that it is what they commonly do after a rider falls off during a human sponsored race. They usually continue with the race, until stopped by people. Someone may not have noticed from all their experience with horses running around Buffalo NY, but horses do not have fangs, claws, horns, wings, shells, stingers, tusks, or hands for making and using weapons. What they do is this: they run away from stuff. All sorts of stuff, even without a need to do that.

And bunching up together and running around is also what they do for fun, because it is what they like and want, as the psychological/emotional consequence of their evolutionary path to avoid becoming dinner. They have evolved a physical ability and desire to run fast, far. And that is what they do, and they seek to do it together in large herds. It is both their means of survival as well as how they establish status and reproductive priority among others. And the same physical characteristics that insure herd survival by running fast and long together in a large group also make an individual's forelegs, ankles, and some other aspects extremely fragile. A stubbed toe or sprained ankle in a human is routinely a fatal catastrophic break-down event for a horse, while doing what they like to do on their own without human intervention. As anybody with any even slight acquaintance with horses or much sincere interest in them is already well aware.

There are certainly some significant criticisms that could reasonably be made about this sport. But this is not among them. And those that are couldn't be discussed in this particular venue without budgeting for some excessive hot water bills from the extra showers that would inevitably become necessary.

And the fevered fantasy above about the use and effect of a riding crop is too spectacularly ludicrous for a civil reply.
link to original post

I should have pointed this out earlier - but this is a very great post from DD re horses
a much, much better synopsis on the subject then you will ever get from any U.S. newspaper -
he has a great amount of knowledge on this subject

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The trouble is, none of that matters, knowledge, whose right, the truth, none of it. The only thing that does matter is how the general public perceives the sport. (And yes, most of them know nothing about horse racing.)

If the press smells blood and senses it can increase viewership/clicks by attacking, it will. Defenders (speaking truth and knowledge) will either be dismissed as greedy animal torturers or simply ignored. When public outage reaches a level that can effect elections, then the powers that be will step in and the fate of the sport of kings will take a dramatic turn for the worse.

The only "true" defence racing has is that it generates lots and lots of money and, to a much lesser degree, has a romantic mystique of mint juleps and ladies wearing fancy bonnets.

As for a football analogy, if several players died in the weeks leading up to the super bowl, what would the headlines read?

Who does it generate the money for, though. The area around Belmont is some of the worse on Long Island. The money seems to be primarily distributed amongst the already wealthy.

Bingo

Quote: Gialmere

The trouble is, none of that matters, knowledge, whose right, the truth, none of it. The only thing that does matter is how the general public perceives the sport. (And yes, most of them know nothing about horse racing.)

If the press smells blood and senses it can increase viewership/clicks by attacking, it will. Defenders (speaking truth and knowledge) will either be dismissed as greedy animal torturers or simply ignored. When public outage reaches a level that can effect elections, then the powers that be will step in and the fate of the sport of kings will take a dramatic turn for the worse.

The only "true" defence racing has is that it generates lots and lots of money and, to a much lesser degree, has a romantic mystique of mint juleps and ladies wearing fancy bonnets.

As for a football analogy, if several players died in the weeks leading up to the super bowl, what would the headlines read?
link to original post

A hundred and twenty years ago, a rash of young men dropping dead had the press calling for football to be banned. Teddy Roosevelt was instrumental in mandating helmets and the rest is history.

Also the forward pass. So what's the solve for horse racing? No whipping?

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ironic to me
42,939 humans perished in auto accidents in 2021 in the U.S.
very little publicity about making cars or highways safer
much sadness re horses perishing (including from me - I'm not so cold as to not feel anything)

but so little feeling for the humans who only wanted to get to work or to travel a little

I was also going to post on another major cause of human death - but that would be a forbidden topic - the ban hammer would come down


horses are bred for racing
racehorses would not even have been born if it were not for racing

unfortunately we cannot ask them:
"would you rather have a life with some risks attached - or would you rather have no life at at all____?"

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Quote: Gialmere

Also the forward pass. So what's the solve for horse racing? No whipping?
link to original post

No drugging?

Drugs just make life more interesting bill. Next thing you’re going to tell me baseball players shouldn’t take steroids so they can hit more home runs.

Quote: mcallister3200

Drugs just make life more interesting bill. Next thing you’re going to tell me baseball players shouldn’t take steroids so they can hit more home runs.
link to original post

The ballplayers have a choice. If the Yankees were injecting their players without their consent, you'd have a point.

Quote: lilredrooster

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ironic to me
42,939 humans perished in auto accidents in 2021 in the U.S.
very little publicity about making cars or highways safer
much sadness re horses perishing (including from me - I'm not so cold as to not feel anything)

but so little feeling for the humans who only wanted to get to work or to travel a little

I was also going to post on another major cause of human death - but that would be a forbidden topic - the ban hammer would come down


horses are bred for racing
racehorses would not even have been born if it were not for racing

unfortunately we cannot ask them:
"would you rather have a life with some risks attached - or would you rather have no life at at all____?"

.
link to original post

Engineers are always at work making cars and roadways safer and government agencies are always at work critically considering new safety standards, And yearly roadway death statistics always make the news.

As for breeding, I hypothesize that race horses are bred for the characteristics that make for a potentially great racehorse, but that breeding also-either on purpose or inadvertently-are breeding out the characteristics that protect horses from fatal injuries.

Quote: lilredrooster

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a Bob Baffert trained horse won the Preakness
before that a Baffert horse was injured in a race and had to be euthanized -
the horse was bumped out of the gate losing ground immediately then later tripped, threw the jock, and kept running with an injury to his leg - which resulted in a fatal injury to his ankle
much of the press is trying to blame Baffert for that - to tie that incident to other incidents involving drugs where Baffert has previously been sanctioned

this is nonsense
a horse having to be euthanized is a sad thing
but Baffert is not blameworthy re this

it's an example of the media sensationalizing something that doesn't deserve to be sensationalized

sportswriters getting their stories published about horse racing who don't know what they're talking about

.
link to original post

I've been following to lay and horse press and have not found a single article blaming Baffert for the Preakness death. The closest I've come is an article citing multiple horses he trained testing positive and him having the highest rate of horse deaths as of 2021. I am willing to be corrected with citations.

Quote: DrawingDead

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Just once, strictly for benefit of the normal people looking in who I know lurk occasionally but naturally don't care to sign in to the the weird dying forum/clubhouse side of this site, as I (along with many) have learned to have less than zero interest in trying to continue any kind of a dialog here. And with my apologies for what will be an annoying simpleton tone for those who've ever actually been around horses...

The lifespan of a wild horse averages about 15 years. And during that time, they crowd together, and run around. The lifespan of a domesticated horse is about 25-30 years (but tends to be a bit longer when lucky enough to be a valuable pampered racehorse, stallion, or broodmare receiving much more frequent, extensive, and better quality medical attention than most average people, say from getting "health care" by showing up in the ER with a Medicaid card at a public hospital in Buffalo.)

Quote: SOOPOO

<SNIP>...try and run as fast as possible in heavy traffic with other horses trying to do the same...<SNIP>
link to original post

You just described what wild horses naturally do. And are doing right now. All over the world. As they did before any humans existed. All on their own, if they never get cozy with a human or have their lifespan doubled as a racehorse. Someone with any actual interest in the subject would also notice that it is what they commonly do after a rider falls off during a human sponsored race. They usually continue with the race, until stopped by people. Someone may not have noticed from all their experience with horses running around Buffalo NY, but horses do not have fangs, claws, horns, wings, shells, stingers, tusks, or hands for making and using weapons. What they do is this: they run away from stuff. All sorts of stuff, even without a need to do that.

And bunching up together and running around is also what they do for fun, because it is what they like and want, as the psychological/emotional consequence of their evolutionary path to avoid becoming dinner. They have evolved a physical ability and desire to run fast, far. And that is what they do, and they seek to do it together in large herds. It is both their means of survival as well as how they establish status and reproductive priority among others. And the same physical characteristics that insure herd survival by running fast and long together in a large group also make an individual's forelegs, ankles, and some other aspects extremely fragile. A stubbed toe or sprained ankle in a human is routinely a fatal catastrophic break-down event for a horse, while doing what they like to do on their own without human intervention. As anybody with any even slight acquaintance with horses or much sincere interest in them is already well aware.

There are certainly some significant criticisms that could reasonably be made about this sport. But this is not among them. And those that are couldn't be discussed in this particular venue without budgeting for some excessive hot water bills from the extra showers that would inevitably become necessary.

And the fevered fantasy above about the use and effect of a riding crop is too spectacularly ludicrous for a civil reply.
link to original post

I like horse racing. At least enough to feel it should not be made illegal. I am just for the (reasonably) humane treatment of animals. But please don’t try and compare some horses running around together in the wild to 20 horses with humans whipping them running in more than tight quarters. I mean seriously, you don’t think a jockey whipping a horse is for the intent of it causing pain to the horse resulting in the horse running faster? And remember, only one of us guarded Spectacular Bid, and it wasn’t you!