Thread Rating:

DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 69
  • Posts: 5202
August 17th, 2019 at 5:21:54 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

You mean other than it being inappropriate to me and to the topic?



How is it inappropriate to the topic of sports betting? Have you profited off of others in sports betting?
Living longer does not always infer +EV
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 17144
August 17th, 2019 at 6:20:47 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze



If any questions or statements regarding my life, family, finances, past, etc. come up, they won't be answered.

Said the guy who was constantly reporting how much money he was making via - EV gambling Voodoo systems.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 102
  • Posts: 5956
August 17th, 2019 at 6:29:38 PM permalink
When will you make your first selection?
JoelDeze
JoelDeze
Joined: Apr 20, 2016
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 467
August 17th, 2019 at 6:56:07 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

When will you make your first selection?



Thursday evening the 22nd. For week 0.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 17144
August 17th, 2019 at 7:04:21 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

How is it inappropriate to the topic of sports betting? Have you profited off of others in sports betting?

No need for him to answer the question. This is from his site. it's a nice site with lots of tools that could be of value to sports bettors. It's no longer subscription based, now its free with an honor system that asks for donations.


1. Making Purchases or Donations

1.a. When you confirm a transaction on xxxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement, you agree to be bound by and pay for that transaction.
1.b. Pay attention to the details of the transaction, and read any notes regarding the package details.
1.c. Don't commit to a transaction unless you are ready to pay, because all sales are final.
1.d. Even though we use terms like "purchase", "buy", and "order" to discuss transactions related to virtual packages, under no circumstances do we transfer ownership of those items to you. The virtual packages are licensed, not sold.
1.e. WE MAKE NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES SOLD ON, OR THROUGH xxxxxxxxxxxxxx PAYMENT AGREEMENT.
2. Payment Sources

We want to provide you a wide range of payments choices and make our payment process convenient. Different payment sources include credit cards, debit cards, cryptocurrency and PayPal.

2.a. When you provide a payment source to us, you confirm that you are permitted to use that payment source. You also authorize us and (our designated payment processor) to store it, along with other related transaction information.
2.b. When you make a payment, you authorize us (and our designated payment processor) to charge the full amount to the payment source you designate for the transaction.
2.c. If you pay by credit, debit, cryptocurrency or paypal, we may obtain a pre-approval form from your issuer for an amount up to the amount of the purchase. We will bill your card, or payment provider at the time of purchase. If you cancel a transaction before completion, that pre-approval may result in your funds not otherwise being immediately available.
2.d. If you pay by debit card and your payment results in an overdraft or other fee from your bank, you alone are responsible for that fee.
2.e. All sports and research services listed on our website can be accessed freely. Optional payments through voluntary monetary gifts or donations are accepted.
3. Donations

3.a. All monthly subscription fees have been suspended until further notice. Any person that upgrades their account will not be charged a subscription fee.
3.b. Any payments made by registered users will be in the form of "optional" monetary donations or voluntary monetary gifts.
4. Cancellations, Disputes and Reversals

4.a. If you believe that an unauthorized or otherwise problematic transaction has taken place under your account, you agree to notify us immediately, so that we may take action to prevent financial loss.
4.b. To the fullest extent of the law, you waive all claims against us related to payments unless you submit the claim to us within 30 days after the charge.
4.c. You are responsible for and agree to reimburse us for all reversals, charge-backs, claims, fees, fines, penalties and other liability incurred by us (including costs and related expenses) that were caused by or arising out of payments you authorized or accepted.
4.d. You may cancel your account at any time. Cancellations can be submitted directly on our website through your account, through email sent to support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Notices and Amendments to These Payments Terms

5.a. We may provide notices to you by posting them on our website, or by sending them to an email address on file, that you previously provided us. Website and email notices shall be considered received by you within 24 hours of the time posted or sent.
5.b. Except as otherwise stated, you must send notices to us related to payments and these Payment Terms by email to: xxxxxxxxxx .
5.c. The Payment Terms in place at the time you confirm a transaction will govern that transaction.
5.d. We may change these Payment Terms, in whole or in part, even though the changes may affect accumulated virtual currency.
6. Other

6.a. All of the commitments you make in the xxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement Statement of Rights and Responsibilities apply to payments through xxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement. In the event of any conflict between these Payments Terms and the xxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement Statement of Rights and Responsibilities, the Payments Terms shall prevail.
6.b. If you are under the age of 18, you are not allowed to use our services nor are you authorized to make payments through our providers.
6.c. If we incur any service outages that directly impact our ability to provide services outlined in our subscription packages, we will not refund any transaction amounts as stated in our note on warranties in Section 1 of these Payments Terms.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SM777
SM777
Joined: Apr 8, 2016
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 740
August 17th, 2019 at 8:46:09 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

No need for him to answer the question. This is from his site. it's a nice site with lots of tools that could be of value to sports bettors. It's no longer subscription based, now its free with an honor system that asks for donations.


1. Making Purchases or Donations

1.a. When you confirm a transaction on xxxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement, you agree to be bound by and pay for that transaction.
1.b. Pay attention to the details of the transaction, and read any notes regarding the package details.
1.c. Don't commit to a transaction unless you are ready to pay, because all sales are final.
1.d. Even though we use terms like "purchase", "buy", and "order" to discuss transactions related to virtual packages, under no circumstances do we transfer ownership of those items to you. The virtual packages are licensed, not sold.
1.e. WE MAKE NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES SOLD ON, OR THROUGH xxxxxxxxxxxxxx PAYMENT AGREEMENT.
2. Payment Sources

We want to provide you a wide range of payments choices and make our payment process convenient. Different payment sources include credit cards, debit cards, cryptocurrency and PayPal.

2.a. When you provide a payment source to us, you confirm that you are permitted to use that payment source. You also authorize us and (our designated payment processor) to store it, along with other related transaction information.
2.b. When you make a payment, you authorize us (and our designated payment processor) to charge the full amount to the payment source you designate for the transaction.
2.c. If you pay by credit, debit, cryptocurrency or paypal, we may obtain a pre-approval form from your issuer for an amount up to the amount of the purchase. We will bill your card, or payment provider at the time of purchase. If you cancel a transaction before completion, that pre-approval may result in your funds not otherwise being immediately available.
2.d. If you pay by debit card and your payment results in an overdraft or other fee from your bank, you alone are responsible for that fee.
2.e. All sports and research services listed on our website can be accessed freely. Optional payments through voluntary monetary gifts or donations are accepted.
3. Donations

3.a. All monthly subscription fees have been suspended until further notice. Any person that upgrades their account will not be charged a subscription fee.
3.b. Any payments made by registered users will be in the form of "optional" monetary donations or voluntary monetary gifts.
4. Cancellations, Disputes and Reversals

4.a. If you believe that an unauthorized or otherwise problematic transaction has taken place under your account, you agree to notify us immediately, so that we may take action to prevent financial loss.
4.b. To the fullest extent of the law, you waive all claims against us related to payments unless you submit the claim to us within 30 days after the charge.
4.c. You are responsible for and agree to reimburse us for all reversals, charge-backs, claims, fees, fines, penalties and other liability incurred by us (including costs and related expenses) that were caused by or arising out of payments you authorized or accepted.
4.d. You may cancel your account at any time. Cancellations can be submitted directly on our website through your account, through email sent to support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Notices and Amendments to These Payments Terms

5.a. We may provide notices to you by posting them on our website, or by sending them to an email address on file, that you previously provided us. Website and email notices shall be considered received by you within 24 hours of the time posted or sent.
5.b. Except as otherwise stated, you must send notices to us related to payments and these Payment Terms by email to: xxxxxxxxxx .
5.c. The Payment Terms in place at the time you confirm a transaction will govern that transaction.
5.d. We may change these Payment Terms, in whole or in part, even though the changes may affect accumulated virtual currency.
6. Other

6.a. All of the commitments you make in the xxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement Statement of Rights and Responsibilities apply to payments through xxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement. In the event of any conflict between these Payments Terms and the xxxxxxxxxx Payment Agreement Statement of Rights and Responsibilities, the Payments Terms shall prevail.
6.b. If you are under the age of 18, you are not allowed to use our services nor are you authorized to make payments through our providers.
6.c. If we incur any service outages that directly impact our ability to provide services outlined in our subscription packages, we will not refund any transaction amounts as stated in our note on warranties in Section 1 of these Payments Terms.



Incredible
SM777
SM777
Joined: Apr 8, 2016
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 740
August 17th, 2019 at 8:47:14 PM permalink
For anyone keeping score, and to answer Axel's question, Joel posted this on this very site:

"If I had posted all my picks you would have said differently. I can post a lead off game here and there but it wouldn't be fair to paying customers to post an entire slate of weekly picks."
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 17144
August 17th, 2019 at 10:11:44 PM permalink
Quote: SM777

For anyone keeping score, and to answer Axel's question, Joel posted this on this very site:

"If I had posted all my picks you would have said differently. I can post a lead off game here and there but it wouldn't be fair to paying customers to post an entire slate of weekly picks."

To make things more interesting, he raised a total of about five hundred bucks on a 10,000 goal via a Kickstarter fund. I can't 100% say for certain it was related to this particular project But perhaps it was something similar.

If I had to guess, he went to a 100% donation model because he didn't have enough paid membership or it didn't/ doesn't do well enough to warrant a paid subscription.

I have no clue how many sites are around that are similar to his, or how much is involved in setting something like that up I don't know what kind of stats is entered calculated and generated generated. Given mine limited knowledge his sight seems pretty impressive to me.

For a Recreational Sports better I have a feeling it could be fun, interesting and helpful.

Can his Website help a player gain a long-term advantage and beat Sports? Could his website add something to a professional sports Bettors tools that would significantly help? I don't have enough knowledge to determine that. My guess is probably not any more than what someone whose line shopping can do.

If someone had a sports modeling program, or whatever you want to call it that would gain them a long-term advantage it seems to me that they would be absolutely raping those Sports. I think you would have people beating down your door just to get in on the action.

I MAKE NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO ANY COMMENTS OR SPECULATIONS GIVEN ON, OR THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD. FURTHER MORE, I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MILLIONS YOU MAY LOSE OUT ON BY NOT BETTING JoelDeze's PICKS OR USING HIS BETTING TOOLS.

The same holds true for Nathan's Lottery picks.
The same holds true for the millions you could save by ridding the bus while using DarkOz's bus ridding system.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
JoelDeze
JoelDeze
Joined: Apr 20, 2016
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 467
August 17th, 2019 at 10:49:30 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf



If I had to guess, he went to a 100% donation model because he didn't have enough paid membership or it didn't/ doesn't do well enough to warrant a paid subscription.



Kind of feel like you are stalking me but to set things straight, I felt it was unscrupulous to charge anyone after 2017. The website was created as a research based site, with tools to help people determine their own forecasting methodology and philosophies. The monies were very small, and meant to be small - just enough to pay for site expenses. The value from people that had joined was in the form of feedback and understanding what type of data they were interested in.


Quote: AxelWolf


I have no clue how many sites are around that are similar to his, or how much is involved in setting something like that up I don't know what kind of stats is entered calculated and generated generated. Given mine limited knowledge his sight seems pretty impressive to me.

For a Recreational Sports better I have a feeling it could be fun, interesting and helpful.



One of the issues I've had with people here, and yes I do get the whole tout perspective is I'm not a tout. I'm just a research guy - love combing stats and building data that could help with gaining some type of edge. Regardless of what the site has today, I still won't link it or provide links to it. I've always honored or tried to honor the forum terms of services, and I'll continue to do that in the future.

Quote: AxelWolf



Can his Website help a player gain a long-term advantage and beat Sports? Could his website add something to a professional sports Bettors tools that would significantly help? I don't have enough knowledge to determine that. My guess is probably not any more than what someone whose line shopping can do.

If someone had a sports modeling program, or whatever you want to call it that would gain them a long-term advantage it seems to me that they would be absolutely raping those Sports. I think you would have people beating down your door just to get in on the action.



My first steps into sports betting really had nothing to do with ATS at all. The original system was designed for ML predictions and taking advantage of line values somewhere in the range of +250 to -300. If the system favorite was a vegas underdog, I would bet the equivalent of a full unit on the ATS for the underdog and a 0.5 unit on the ML in favor of the underdog. If the system favorite was a vegas favorite, I would bet the ML only.

Eventually, people wanted an ATS model so I built one that just wasn't ready. I released it in 2017 and it went just over 43%, which is not going to win money for anyone. After that occurred, I said no more fees - I'd eat the site fees myself. So, in 2018 everything became free and it was still primarily a research based website with a test driven model for ATS. The system, with no influence from me hit just under 51%. Again, this won't win any money either. But, it saw some improvement. So, my goal this year is to get to 65%. It's lofty, and if I don't, so be it. I'm competitive as hell. I'd rather have tried and failed than not tried at all.

And, finally, no I won't be charging or selling any sports service subscriptions now or in the future in case I'm asked yet again. I believe with the optional donation model I had in place last year I was able to cover about 60% of site expenses for the year. That's all it's there for since I don't link or advertise on the site.

For purposes of this thread it's a competition for me to see what I can do with a $1k starting bankroll. If it hits $0 then I'm done with picking for the year. I'm not allowed to refresh the capital. It's $1k+ or bust.

First pick is 8/22 in the evening. I have to find a good image site to link the wager images. If anyone has info on a good image sharing site for forums, please let me know.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 133
  • Posts: 17144
August 17th, 2019 at 11:36:10 PM permalink
JoelDeze, I will be looking forward to see what you can do.

Being upfront honest and out in the open about this sort of thing is always the best policy.

I vaguely remember you saying something in the past about putting down upwards of $50,000 per game? Why be messing around with a measly $1,000 starting bankroll?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

  • Jump to: