Sports betting discussion thread
Quote: Rigondeaux
This needs to be seen.
The best part is that the mental math was actually correct...just the underlying statement made absolutely no sense. Still the most cogent argument Steiner has ever presented in a promo.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe 17% is indeed exactly what they are saying. We could compare it to baseball and the run line. It only matters if the favorite wins by just one run (RL on the dog is a bad idea). So if you just pic favorites to win you get the better payout.
This is a bit of a philosophical angle. Some people would say the run line matters only if the probability of the game being won by one run exceeds the odds to you have give up when betting the +1.5, or the odds you get back when betting -1.5
Quote: AZDuffmanLike anything, take it for what you like. It just says to me that unless you have 6+ points in spread or so just worry about picking the winner.
But picking favorites and laying points, means someone has to pick correctly 70% of the time. Picking winners in 70% of NFL games is extremely tough to do in the NFL. Picking underdogs means someone only has to pick correctly 36% of the time, which should be pretty easy to do
Quote: TomGThis is a bit of a philosophical angle. Some people would say the run line matters only if the probability of the game being won by one run exceeds the odds to you have give up when betting the +1.5, or the odds you get back when betting -1.5
I am working on some stats but it seems to matter about 20% of the time for most teams at the very most. The rest they lose or cover. Still crunching data.
Quote:But picking favorites and laying points, means someone has to pick correctly 70% of the time. Picking winners in 70% of NFL games is extremely tough to do in the NFL. Picking underdogs means someone only has to pick correctly 36% of the time, which should be pretty easy to do
Again, it is just a tool. To me it means ignore close spreads and go for picking winners.
If he had killed dogs for amusement or slapped his gf around it would have only been 4 games.
Quote: AZDuffmanCardinals' Josh Shaw suspended through at least 2020 season for betting on NFL games
If he had killed dogs for amusement or slapped his gf around it would have only been 4 games.
Correct. Killing dogs and slapping your girlfriend is bad, but does not affect the integrity of the game. Quite rankly, if the criminal justice system does not punish you for slapping around your girlfriend, you think it is up to the NFL to dole out punishment? Let's say he was a waiter at Olive Garden. he should not be allowed to go to work because of a non felony problem? One in which there was no prosecutor that thought he should even go to jail?
So let's even say he was convicted and spent 6 months in jail. Should he not be able to work? I mean, should he be a school bus driver, a nursing home worker, a psychologist, or a freaking football player? I want all ex cons to try and be football players, instead of those other jobs. Don't you?
Quote: AZDuffmanCardinals' Josh Shaw suspended through at least 2020 season for betting on NFL games
If he had killed dogs for amusement or slapped his gf around it would have only been 4 games.
The dogs thing is weird. Not to derail, but don't you eat animals for fun every day? I do. Some of it is for sustenance but a lot of times it's just fun. A pizza with mushrooms is just about as good as one with pepperoni. And healthier. But sometimes I just feel like pepperoni. Animals suffer and die horribly to give it to me.
I don't condone dog fighting, but it's not that bad compared to what I do all the time, so how can I get too worked up?
Anyway, betting on the games threatens the integrity of the sport and the incomes of everyone involved with it. The NFL isn't the criminal justice system, nor should it be.
When guys hit women or drink and drive... that's part of life. People do bad stuff. because they are in the public entertainment business the NFL feels like it should hand out penalties to make the public happy. However, if you have 1100 guys or however many are in the nfl, some of them are going to drive drunk, hit women, say dumb stuff... etc. It actually benifits the NFL to have some level of this IMO because it creates this big public drama that sucks everyone in. For example, to nutty dog lovers, Michael Vick is like a heel in wrestling.
When they are proven to commit crimes, it is mainly up to the CJ system to deal with them and the league can toss in something extra to appease the public. Vick did like a year of a hard time for eating pepperoni. What should they have done, hanged him?
However, when an athlete gets involved in gambling on his sport, that is a work matter and is, literally, more damaging to the league than a guy who is a serial killer. He is sabotaging the entire product. From a CJ standpoint this isn't serious and probably not a crime at all.
The NFL sells fair contests to fans who might wait 40-50 years for their team to win a championship. For many of them, the drama of the games and their loyality to the teams are more important than half of their own lives. Fantasy and survivor are a billion dollar industry based on fair games. Of course, gambling on football is a multi-billion dollar industry based on fair games. If players are involved in gambling on the games, the entire product becomes questionable. It's like a school having a pedo on staff, or an insurance company that has someone with fraud convictions or a chef who has been caught spitting in food. You just can't have it.
I'd have banned him for life. People are gonna drive drunk or gamble, but I think gambling on your own sport is something that can be pretty well stamped out if you come down hard enough. You can be a degenerate gambler and refrain from betting this one particular thing. And if you can't, best to get you out of the league.
Quote: Rigondeaux
The dogs thing is weird. Not to derail, but don't you eat animals for fun every day? I do. Some of it is for sustenance but a lot of times it's just fun. A pizza with mushrooms is just about as good as one with pepperoni. And healthier. But sometimes I just feel like pepperoni. Animals suffer and die horribly to give it to me.
I don't condone dog fighting, but it's not that bad compared to what I do all the time, so how can I get too worked up?
Vick did not eat dogs for food. He killed them for amusement and nothing else. It does not compare to me.
Quote: SOOPOO
Correct. Killing dogs and slapping your girlfriend is bad, but does not affect the integrity of the game. Quite rankly, if the criminal justice system does not punish you for slapping around your girlfriend, you think it is up to the NFL to dole out punishment? Let's say he was a waiter at Olive Garden. he should not be allowed to go to work because of a non felony problem? One in which there was no prosecutor that thought he should even go to jail?
So let's even say he was convicted and spent 6 months in jail. Should he not be able to work? I mean, should he be a school bus driver, a nursing home worker, a psychologist, or a freaking football player? I want all ex cons to try and be football players, instead of those other jobs. Don't you?
The difference is the NFL claims it has an "image." The NFL told Rush Limbaugh to not even bother trying to be a minority owner for I forget why. He was "divisive." Because the NFL did not like someone's political stance, they said he was not good for the league for some reason.
But kill dogs for amusement or slap around your gf? Four game suspension and all is forgiven!
As to "if the criminal justice system does not punish..." there is a difference between a player and Olive Garden employee. A job like NFL player there is a certain standard of personal behavior you are expected to keep off the job. Consider it similar to back in the day when movie stars had to be dressed up if they went out in public at all. That was to keep the glamour image. For the NFL, most fans do not want to see thugs on the field.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe difference is the NFL claims it has an "image." The NFL told Rush Limbaugh to not even bother trying to be a minority owner for I forget why. He was "divisive." Because the NFL did not like someone's political stance, they said he was not good for the league for some reason.
But kill dogs for amusement or slap around your gf? Four game suspension and all is forgiven!
As to "if the criminal justice system does not punish..." there is a difference between a player and Olive Garden employee. A job like NFL player there is a certain standard of personal behavior you are expected to keep off the job. Consider it similar to back in the day when movie stars had to be dressed up if they went out in public at all. That was to keep the glamour image. For the NFL, most fans do not want to see thugs on the field.
These are kind of separate issues. What the nfl needs to do to keep the public happy as far as dishing out extra punishment to people and so forth on things that have nothing to do with work is one thing. Basically, whether it's Rush or a wife beater, they are trying to manage things that might cause people to stop being fans. It's not about justice, it's about having a marketable product.
Wagering on the games is probably the single most damaging thing a player can do to the product. It's not about "image" or the idea that the privilege of being in the NFL should be reserved for good people. It's about fundamentally undermining the product they sell.
Quote: AZDuffmanVick did not eat dogs for food. He killed them for amusement and nothing else. It does not compare to me.
I have pepperoni on my pizza for amusement and nothing else. It is actually bad for me to eat it.
Edit: I do get your point. Dog fighters are consuming the violence directly, while pepperoni eaters consume it indirectly. Still, I don't think we can get too far on our high horses.
Quote: RigondeauxI have pepperoni on my pizza for amusement and nothing else. It is actually bad for me to eat it.
Edit: I do get your point. Dog fighters are consuming the violence directly, while pepperoni eaters consume it indirectly. Still, I don't think we can get too far on our high horses.
I am not on a high horse. Like the noble plains Indian who used all parts of the buffalo, every part of that pig gets used to make the pepperoni I love on my pizza. Except the squeal. OTOH, the dog Vick killed suffered for his enjoyment only.
Quote: RigondeauxThese are kind of separate issues. What the nfl needs to do to keep the public happy as far as dishing out extra punishment to people and so forth on things that have nothing to do with work is one thing. Basically, whether it's Rush or a wife beater, they are trying to manage things that might cause people to stop being fans. It's not about justice, it's about having a marketable product.
And they are doing ab awful job of it. Private workouts for players who make asses of themselves during the National Anthem, dog killers welcome, how much else. If they did not pretend to care about their image it might not matter so much.
Quote:Wagering on the games is probably the single most damaging thing a player can do to the product. It's not about "image" or the idea that the privilege of being in the NFL should be reserved for good people. It's about fundamentally undermining the product they sell.
I can see where they do not want the appearance of impropriety, but given the other things they allow a player betting on games he is not involved in is the least of bad things.
If I run a restaurant, and the public knows that someone who works there has had a DUI or a domestic violence issue, it's not really that big a deal. If I run a restaurant and the public knows that someone who works there has been caught sticking food up his butt and then serving it, I'm toast. The actual product itself is no longer desirable. The restaurant is done. From a business staindpoint, this is worse than having a convicted murderer working there. Much worse.
Yes, it is a bigger deal in entertainment, because you are supposed to like and root for the entertainer, which is why they do hand out suspensions and stuff. However, a fair football game in which some of the players are have done bad things is still a fair football game. A crooked game is no longer a desirable product. The actual product I am selling is now worthless.
Do you really not get that?
Quote: RigondeauxIt's hard to believe that you can't grasp this.
If I run a restaurant, and the public knows that someone who works there has had a DUI or a domestic violence issue, it's not really that big a deal. If I run a restaurant and the public knows that someone who works there has been caught sticking food up his butt and then serving it, I'm toast. The actual product itself is no longer desirable. The restaurant is done. From a business staindpoint, this is worse than having a convicted murderer working there. Much worse.
Yes, it is a bigger deal in entertainment, because you are supposed to like and root for the entertainer, which is why they do hand out suspensions and stuff. However, a fair football game in which some of the players are have done bad things is still a fair football game. A crooked game is no longer a desirable product. The actual product I am selling is now worthless.
Do you really not get that?
How is it a crooked football game?
I'd rather watch a guy betting games he is not involved in than a guy who kills dogs for amusement. The NFL welcomed him back and keeps trying to whitewash what he did. Give me the gambler.
Quote: Rigondeaux
A crooked game is no longer a desirable product.
disagree. the gamblers are not going to be able to resist betting even if they think the game might be somewhat crooked
gamblers are not people with a great deal of self discipline
for many years gamblers have known horse racing has a great deal of crookedness - mostly degenerate trainers juicing horses with illegal drugs
the handle goes up almost every year - the gamblers try to figure out which trainers are the most crooked and bet on their horses
Baseball went nuclear on corruption and it's still there.
Boxing and horse racing tolerated it and are fringe sports for old people.
There are other factors, but all the crookedness didn't help.
Quote: Rigondeaux
Baseball went nuclear on corruption and it's still there.
your argument fell apart when you mentioned baseball
baseball is still fantastically popular
total attendance in baseball as of the last year available is close to 70 million..........................
the NFL.....................................about 18 million
baseball has never been a big betting sport and I don't have the figures but I seriously doubt all the corruption affected the betting handle at all
corruption is as American as apple pie
nobody is surprised or shocked by corruption anymore -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures
Baseball has a zero tolerance policy, dating back to shoeless joe. The other 2 sports are famously corrupt.
If this shows anything, it's that you must crackdown hard on corruption and illicit gambling.
I'm not that concerned with the betting Handle that is only one aspect of a sports popularity.
If I'm looking for someone to paint my house, I'm looking for someone who is good at painting houses. I don't give a hoot if he's a satanic animal rapist, a hippie vegan, or even a roulette martingaler! I care if he's good at painting houses and offers me a good deal and product.
Quote: RSPeople still care about the whole Michael Vick and dog fighting thing? I honestly couldn't care less. I don't think the NFL should ban/suspend/etc. someone for doing something that doesn't effect the game. If it's illegal then it should be taken care of legally. Of course, the NFL can do as they please and I think they should be able to, I just don't think they should. If Michael Vick is good at football then he should play -- if he's not, then he shouldn't. It's that simple.
Yes, people still care. And the point I am making is the NFL was fine with that but told Limbaugh he need not apply. Limbaugh committed no crime and is an upstanding citizen. Just some people disagree with him.
Quote:If I'm looking for someone to paint my house, I'm looking for someone who is good at painting houses. I don't give a hoot if he's a satanic animal rapist, a hippie vegan, or even a roulette martingaler! I care if he's good at painting houses and offers me a good deal and product.
But in today's world it is very uneven. Vick kills dogs for enjoyment and the NFL and networks do all they can to help him. But if someone told a Black Joke 20 years ago he will end up fired. Kind of out of whack.
Quote: lilredroosteryour argument fell apart when you mentioned baseball
baseball is still fantastically popular
total attendance in baseball as of the last year available is close to 70 million..........................
the NFL.....................................about 18 million
baseball has never been a big betting sport and I don't have the figures but I seriously doubt all the corruption affected the betting handle at all
corruption is as American as apple pie
nobody is surprised or shocked by corruption anymore -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures
Apples and oranges.
NFL - 32 teams @ 16 games.
MLB - 30 teams @ 162 games.
NFL attendance opportunities = 512/2 = 256
MLB " " = 4860/2 = 2430
70,000,000/ 2430 = 28,807/game MLB
18,000,000/256 = 70,313/ game NFL
This does not include pre-season/post-season attendance. I'm using your figures, which might include them (and probably do, actually). But we're now looking at it apples to apples. Accuracy in actual figures could be way off - for example, I doubt more than a couple NFL stadiums hold that many.
Edit :.more than a couple. 13 out of 31 hold more than 70,300 according to wiki. (Jets/giants share)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_stadiums
Quote: RSPeople still care about the whole Michael Vick and dog fighting thing? I honestly couldn't care less. I don't think the NFL should ban/suspend/etc. someone for doing something that doesn't effect the game. If it's illegal then it should be taken care of legally. Of course, the NFL can do as they please and I think they should be able to, I just don't think they should. If Michael Vick is good at football then he should play -- if he's not, then he shouldn't. It's that simple.
If I'm looking for someone to paint my house, I'm looking for someone who is good at painting houses. I don't give a hoot if he's a satanic animal rapist, a hippie vegan, or even a roulette martingaler! I care if he's good at painting houses and offers me a good deal and product.
For a post like this to be effective, you really need to post a photograph of some high value chips and maybe a stock photo of a great strip view.
Yes some hunters eat the animals. Some don't. Some do sometimes and sometimes not. But even if they eat em, they are hunting mainly because they like hunting, which is the practice of killing animals. Some people like hunting deer but don't like the meat that much and kind of eat it just because it's there.
I've been hunting once. I didn't eat the birds. I think my cousin did, but I don't know. It was fun.
I actually agree with RS. The idea of your employer regulating your personal life and playing a CJ function makes my skin crawl. I do understand, as I've said, that in the entertainment industry they might have to do it to appease fans, but I think it's a really nasty turn in our culture. We're so obsessed with tearing down people we disapprove of. Worry bout your own self. But, I think that's why we do it. It's easier to feel high and mighty by obsessing on people you don't like. As if it's some shocking revelation that people do bad things.
Won't be so fun if you lose your job over an unproven domestic violence charge. Or heck, even though you've been a perfect siant in your life up till now, maybe you'll actually do something wrong. Good to know that legal penalties aren't enough anymore. Your entire life must be destroyed.
Quote: Rigondeaux
I actually agree with RS. The idea of your employer regulating your personal life and playing a CJ function makes my skin crawl. I do understand, as I've said, that in the entertainment industry they might have to do it to appease fans, but I think it's a really nasty turn in our culture. We're so obsessed with tearing down people we disapprove of. Worry bout your own self. But, I think that's why we do it. It's easier to feel high and mighty by obsessing on people you don't like. As if it's some shocking revelation that people do bad things.
Won't be so fun if you lose your job over an unproven domestic violence charge. Or heck, even though you've been a perfect siant in your life up till now, maybe you'll actually do something wrong. Good to know that legal penalties aren't enough anymore. Your entire life must be destroyed.
Not quite a valid comparison. Certain jobs have a public image that goes with the job. To name a few: pro athlete, politician, news anchor, disc jockey, corporate officer.
An NFL player IS the team. Much like early in my career the company drilled it into you that YOU ARE US when representing us. An NFL player represents the team 24/7. Don't like that, don't take the job.
I love dogs. Vick killed dogs for amusement. Steelers sign Vick. Steelers are OK with a guy who kills dogs for amusement. I dump or donate all my Steeler items and never care about the team again.
That is how the progression works. That is why the "higher standard."
Quote: AZDuffmanNot quite a valid comparison. Certain jobs have a public image that goes with the job. To name a few: pro athlete, politician, news anchor, disc jockey, corporate officer.
An NFL player IS the team. Much like early in my career the company drilled it into you that YOU ARE US when representing us. An NFL player represents the team 24/7. Don't like that, don't take the job.
I love dogs. Vick killed dogs for amusement. Steelers sign Vick. Steelers are OK with a guy who kills dogs for amusement. I dump or donate all my Steeler items and never care about the team again.
That is how the progression works. That is why the "higher standard."
And that is the big joke! That an NFL player NEEDS a good public mage to play football! It's NOT being a doctor, or a teacher. IT'S RUNNING FAST! Catching a ball! Blocking a field goal!
I guess that's the difference between you and me, AZ. I NEVER care about the personality off the field of the player. I care whether he can do the things, well, that I can't do! That amaze me. I used to play basketball with an NFL player that had 4 children through 4 different women. Should I not be a fan because he didn't uphold to my moral standards? There was a play when a ball was clearly going out of bounds. He was able to track it down but his momentum was obviously going to take him out of bounds. But it didn't. He got the ball and stopped. I thought he broke a few laws of physics. I pay to see that! If he keeps knocking up women, why the f... should I care?
From what I understand the rotisserie chicken I eat is tortured more than a fighting dog. I am content with our laws against dog fighting, by the way. Just once you are done serving your time, I think the NFL is a totally acceptable landing spot.
Quote: SOOPOOAnd that is the big joke! That an NFL player NEEDS a good public mage to play football! It's NOT being a doctor, or a teacher. IT'S RUNNING FAST! Catching a ball! Blocking a field goal!
SNIPPED FOR SIMPLICITY
That is the on-field part. As late as the 60s it would be more valid. Things have changed. Today sports has become so much more. Stadiums are about spending all day. Teams get involved in local charity work. They are woven into the community. They demand lots of public money for facilities. Thus a higher standard.
Quote:From what I understand the rotisserie chicken I eat is tortured more than a fighting dog. I am content with our laws against dog fighting, by the way. Just once you are done serving your time, I think the NFL is a totally acceptable landing spot.
The chicken may suffer but it it so become part of the food chain. Killing dogs for amusement is just barbaric. The worst part was how they tried to excuse Vick based on "culture." One reporterette said "culture" and the anchor said, "what culture is that." Caught she stammered "southern." We all know what she wanted it to mean before being called on it.
Quote: AZDuffmanBut in today's world it is very uneven. Vick kills dogs for enjoyment and the NFL and networks do all they can to help him. But if someone told a Black Joke 20 years ago he will end up fired. Kind of out of whack.
Vick was suspended for two years. Riley Cooper signed a $25 million contract just a few months after the NFL saw the video of his racial slurs. Your statement doesn't hold up to the reality of the NFL conduct policy -- which is agreed upon by both management and labor.
Quote: TomGVick was suspended for two years. Riley Cooper signed a $25 million contract just a few months after the NFL saw the video of his racial slurs. Your statement doesn't hold up to the reality of the NFL conduct policy -- which is agreed upon by both management and labor.
Nope. Vick was suspended for 4 games.
Dogfighting is a felony, racial slurs are not.
Quote: AZDuffmanNope. Vick was suspended for 4 games.
Dogfighting is a felony, racial slurs are not.
https://www.google.com/search?q=michael+vick+suspension&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS877US877&oq=michael+vick+suspension&aqs=chrome..69i57.7472j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Suspended indefinitely in August 2007. Conditionally reinstated in July 2009, but still not able to receive game checks for several more months.
We all agree racial slurs are not felonies. You seemed to think that alone would be enough for an NFL player to lose their job. Doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Quote: TomGhttps://www.google.com/search?q=michael+vick+suspension&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS877US877&oq=michael+vick+suspension&aqs=chrome..69i57.7472j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Suspended indefinitely in August 2007. Conditionally reinstated in July 2009, but still not able to receive game checks for several more months.
His indefinite suspension was while he was in prison, which does not count since he could not play. When the rubber hit the road he got 4 games.
Quote:We all agree racial slurs are not felonies. You seemed to think that alone would be enough for an NFL player to lose their job. Doesn't seem to be the case at all.
In this case it was not. Give it time. Over in MLB an owner was suspended a year for racial slurs. I can see it being demanded in the NFL if it comes up.
Quote: RigondeauxAnd buffalo are one game back in the East, with a game against NE.
I hope but takes it. Would love to see Pat's as a wild card.
Btw I think steelers beat buff in 2 weeks and Pat's also will beat them
+115
Yeah, but what if he's a cactus killer?Quote: RSPeople still care about the whole Michael Vick and dog fighting thing? I honestly couldn't care less. I don't think the NFL should ban/suspend/etc. someone for doing something that doesn't effect the game. If it's illegal then it should be taken care of legally. Of course, the NFL can do as they please and I think they should be able to, I just don't think they should. If Michael Vick is good at football then he should play -- if he's not, then he shouldn't. It's that simple.
If I'm looking for someone to paint my house, I'm looking for someone who is good at painting houses. I don't give a hoot if he's a satanic animal rapist, a hippie vegan, or even a roulette martingaler! I care if he's good at painting houses and offers me a good deal and product.
Quote: SOOPOOHas anyone done more with less than Mike Tomlin this year?
I don't think that is the case. Pittsburgh has very good players on defense that carries the team. The offense has been bad and must rely on the defense for points and turnovers. But I think we should all root for a non-drafted QB from Samford named "Duck".
Quote: DRichI don't think that is the case. Pittsburgh has very good players on defense that carries the team. The offense has been bad and must rely on the defense for points and turnovers. But I think we should all root for a non-drafted QB from Samford named "Duck".
I am really pulling for duck. I like the way he throws the ball. He just needs to make better decisions with his feet. Too many times when the pocket collapsed he took off to the side instead of up the center. The announcers even picked up on that and they usually know nothing.
Also if he becomes good it will be fun seeing a stadium full of grown men dressed as a duck. Too bad duck calls are banned at the stadium.
Quote: DRichI don't think that is the case. Pittsburgh has very good players on defense that carries the team. The offense has been bad and must rely on the defense for points and turnovers. But I think we should all root for a non-drafted QB from Samford named "Duck".
I agree with SOOPOO on this one.
For one thing, Tomlin is and has always been considered a defensive-minded coach, so it's fair to say that it is his strength in this regard that is carrying the team because the defense has been outstanding.
More than that, being down to your second-string QB is not ideal. Third-string is worse. Undrafted dude who didn't even start the season signed to a team is even worse than that! More than that, it's usually not considered ideal for half of your offensive skill players to come from your practice squad...much less the practice squads of other teams.
The one criticism of Mike Tomlin has always been that he has been able to coast by on high-end offensive talent. Not this year. The fake Steelers fans have to eat a nice heaping plate of crow now. I'm a Patriots fan, but I've always been an ardent supporter and defender of Mike Tomlin.
Quote: Mission146I agree with SOOPOO on this one.
For one thing, Tomlin is and has always been considered a defensive-minded coach, so it's fair to say that it is his strength in this regard that is carrying the team because the defense has been outstanding.
More than that, being down to your second-string QB is not ideal. Third-string is worse. Undrafted dude who didn't even start the season signed to a team is even worse than that! More than that, it's usually not considered ideal for half of your offensive skill players to come from your practice squad...much less the practice squads of other teams.
The one criticism of Mike Tomlin has always been that he has been able to coast by on high-end offensive talent. Not this year. The fake Steelers fans have to eat a nice heaping plate of crow now. I'm a Patriots fan, but I've always been an ardent supporter and defender of Mike Tomlin.
Mike Tomlin is a great player coach and he gets the most from them. But I and many other Steeler fans I know can’t stand his clock management and ability to blow a lead. You have to understand that we were used to Cowher, who had a ridiculous record of not blowing a lead.
Quote: unJonQuote: Mission146I agree with SOOPOO on this one.
For one thing, Tomlin is and has always been considered a defensive-minded coach, so it's fair to say that it is his strength in this regard that is carrying the team because the defense has been outstanding.
More than that, being down to your second-string QB is not ideal. Third-string is worse. Undrafted dude who didn't even start the season signed to a team is even worse than that! More than that, it's usually not considered ideal for half of your offensive skill players to come from your practice squad...much less the practice squads of other teams.
The one criticism of Mike Tomlin has always been that he has been able to coast by on high-end offensive talent. Not this year. The fake Steelers fans have to eat a nice heaping plate of crow now. I'm a Patriots fan, but I've always been an ardent supporter and defender of Mike Tomlin.
Mike Tomlin is a great player coach and he gets the most from them. But I and many other Steeler fans I know can’t stand his clock management and ability to blow a lead. You have to understand that we were used to Cowher, who had a ridiculous record of not blowing a lead.
I would say Tomlin is one of the worst in game coaches in the league.
Quote: DRichQuote: unJonQuote: Mission146I agree with SOOPOO on this one.
For one thing, Tomlin is and has always been considered a defensive-minded coach, so it's fair to say that it is his strength in this regard that is carrying the team because the defense has been outstanding.
More than that, being down to your second-string QB is not ideal. Third-string is worse. Undrafted dude who didn't even start the season signed to a team is even worse than that! More than that, it's usually not considered ideal for half of your offensive skill players to come from your practice squad...much less the practice squads of other teams.
The one criticism of Mike Tomlin has always been that he has been able to coast by on high-end offensive talent. Not this year. The fake Steelers fans have to eat a nice heaping plate of crow now. I'm a Patriots fan, but I've always been an ardent supporter and defender of Mike Tomlin.
Mike Tomlin is a great player coach and he gets the most from them. But I and many other Steeler fans I know can’t stand his clock management and ability to blow a lead. You have to understand that we were used to Cowher, who had a ridiculous record of not blowing a lead.
I would say Tomlin is one of the worst in game coaches in the league.
I’d go with Matt Patricia in Detroit. Shurmur with the giants is bad too. Tomlin is right there with those two though.
Quote: AxelWolfYeah, but what if he's a cactus killer?
Michael Vick would never do something so bad as killing a cactus.
Quote: unJon
Mike Tomlin is a great player coach and he gets the most from them. But I and many other Steeler fans I know can’t stand his clock management and ability to blow a lead. You have to understand that we were used to Cowher, who had a ridiculous record of not blowing a lead.
That was my complaint from the start. Cowher put his boot on your neck when he was ahead. Blew what, 1.5 of 110 big leads in his time?
I cannot remember any team playing as far above their talent as this years Steeler squad, it has to catch up with them sooner or later. Indy should have beaten them. Every win save one has been by a whisker. Cleveland owned them the first half then seemed intent on giving the game away.
Longer term you have to wonder how much tine Ben has left, because after he retires they appear to be the Steelers of the mid-80s.
Quote: AZDuffmanThat was my complaint from the start. Cowher put his boot on your neck when he was ahead. Blew what, 1.5 of 110 big leads in his time?
I cannot remember any team playing as far above their talent as this years Steeler squad, it has to catch up with them sooner or later. Indy should have beaten them. Every win save one has been by a whisker. Cleveland owned them the first half then seemed intent on giving the game away.
Longer term you have to wonder how much tine Ben has left, because after he retires they appear to be the Steelers of the mid-80s.
He also had Bettis. I don't think Tomlin has had a running back that could run the clock at the end. Although this year Snell seems like he could turn into something very good.
Tomlin is definitely the worst 2 min coach that I have ever seen. I am not sure he understands what timeout are. His record on challenges is also crazy terrible. He will challenge something that no one things will overturn and misses challenges on clear cut screw ups.
Quote: GWAEHe also had Bettis. I don't think Tomlin has had a running back that could run the clock at the end. Although this year Snell seems like he could turn into something very good.
Tomlin is definitely the worst 2 min coach that I have ever seen. I am not sure he understands what timeout are. His record on challenges is also crazy terrible. He will challenge something that no one things will overturn and misses challenges on clear cut screw ups.
No Bettis, but you have to find a new Bettis. Even a Hoge. Players come, players go, coaches have to keep recruiting and drafting them.
To give some balance, the entire NFL seems to be forgetting about running the ball. But if the Steelers do somehow back into the playoffs it will be a very good bet against them. Meantime let the outdoor stores make some cash selling duck calls.
Quote: AZDuffmanNo Bettis, but you have to find a new Bettis. Even a Hoge. Players come, players go, coaches have to keep recruiting and drafting them.
To give some balance, the entire NFL seems to be forgetting about running the ball. But if the Steelers do somehow back into the playoffs it will be a very good bet against them. Meantime let the outdoor stores make some cash selling duck calls.
I took them last week $50 to win superbowl at 120/1. I think they will get into the playoffs and then I plan on hedging away because I think there is no way in hell they win SB. Only thing I am not sure about is will they be such large underdogs that it will make a hedge tough. Although if they happen to be better than I think and run the table the last 4 games the odds for each game may work well for a hedge
Eta: this bet was not being a homer. I think it was the longest shot for any teams that had a good chance to make the playoffs.
Quote: GWAEI took them last week $50 to win superbowl at 120/1. I think they will get into the playoffs and then I plan on hedging away because I think there is no way in hell they win SB. Only thing I am not sure about is will they be such large underdogs that it will make a hedge tough. Although if they happen to be better than I think and run the table the last 4 games the odds for each game may work well for a hedge
Eta: this bet was not being a homer. I think it was the longest shot for any teams that had a good chance to make the playoffs.
Not a bad hedge, but if they make the playoffs I see them as a #6 seed that gets blown into next week the opening round.
