General Sports Talk
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69 members have voted
I often have this discussion with my son.... I think Dak was holding out for something like 35 million a year for 7 years or so, with 125 million or so guaranteed. probably offered 30 million or so for 6 years with 100 million guaranteed. He took this years 30 million on a franchise tag. I think taking less than you might get is worth it if it guarantees 9 figures of money.
Dislocation/fractures of the ankle are REALLY bad. Clean fractures there without dislocation can usually be fixed to near normal state. Adding in the dislocation makes a full recovery not likely. I think he will have to be let go by the Cowboys after this season, and I don't think the free agent market will be kind to him. I saw him play in college and liked him a lot there. He seems like a really good guy. Too bad.
I was wrong on Ben Roethlisberger's recovery, hopefully I am wrong on Dak's as well.
You can't spike the ball on a bad snap on a field goal attempt, nor can you spike the ball from the shotgun.
The rules have changed so much since I knew them as a player forty years ago.
Hopefull, Zak Prescott has an insurance policy that will take care of him because I think his NFL days may be over.
Quote: SOOPOOI've had that same thought before! But I think the rule is such that a 'spike' is different than a regular pass. Even if being rushed it is NEVER called intentional grounding. Remember, you are in the pocket and there is no receiver in the area of the spike. If it were up to me, a 'spike' WOULD be considered intentional grounding... well.... because it IS intentional grounding!
Except it is not. Intentional grounding must include the intent to avoid a sack. Not the case with a spike.
I do not remember spikes before the very late 1980s so it is possible they changed the rules around that time. Also possible I did not notice before or/and nobody thought of the idea before then.
Quote: AZDuffmanExcept it is not. Intentional grounding must include the intent to avoid a sack. Not the case with a spike.
I do not remember spikes before the very late 1980s so it is possible they changed the rules around that time. Also possible I did not notice before or/and nobody thought of the idea before then.
Generally correct, but the NFL has this hard wired into the Intentional Grounding rule now as follows:
Quote:Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.
Item 4. Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s).
Quote: unJonGenerally correct, but the NFL has this hard wired into the Intentional Grounding rule now as follows:
Quote:Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.
Item 4. Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s).
Interesting find and thanks for posting. So I would say Item 3 was added at some point to clear things up. Then Item 4 after they talked about it.
Quote: unJonGenerally correct, but the NFL has this hard wired into the Intentional Grounding rule now as follows:
Quote:Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.
Item 4. Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s).
So in the NFL, according to the "Item 4", the QB can throw the ball into the ground behind him. as long as it is directly into the ground. I doubt we will se a QB test that rule... As I said before, I wish the spike was not allowed. As far as the TE being nearby, they are not nearby enough for most spikes.
In retrospect, the 1975 world series was the first one that I tracked all pitches and plays in my scorebook. Dave Conception, Pete Rose, George Foster, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Ken Griffey, Johnny Bench. Those guys became my first "heroes" in baseball and I can remember that series like it was yesterday.
Quote: mcallister3200Drew Brees is just done he’s out there looking like the football equivalent of rotten fruit was just good and sweet in recent history now toxic with fruit flies eating at its carcass they’re not even pretending he can try to throw more than 20 yards downfield anymore. Give Jameis the trial run ffs they probably should have resigned Teddy two gloves and let Brees walk or retire although if the fan base wasn’t ok with it might be setting him up for failure.
https://i.imgur.com/sDq5HPv.jpg
He is 22/33 for 237 yards with 11 minutes left in the game. Not that bad.
Happy to see Tampa Bay win the first two games. They were hitting Morton so hard i am surprised he didn't give up any runs.
Quote: DRichJoe Morgan passing today really stirred up some memories today. In 1975 is when I really started studying baseball and tracking pitches of all games that I could. I was 9 years old and didn't seriously understand baseball before that. I was a fan but just for the local team, Cleveland Indians. I never got to see that Reds team live because they didn't play the Indians.
In retrospect, the 1975 world series was the first one that I tracked all pitches and plays in my scorebook. Dave Conception, Pete Rose, George Foster, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Ken Griffey, Johnny Bench. Those guys became my first "heroes" in baseball and I can remember that series like it was yesterday.
Joe Morgan was the best payer in baseball for a number of years. Nuff Said.
Rest in Peace.
. I believe so. The game clock takes precedence over the second team’s right to receive the ball. (I think!). It really is a STUPID way to run an overtime.Quote: DRichIn the NFL does the team receiving the ball in overtime win if they kick the field goal, no time left on the 10 minute clock, on their first possession even though the other team never got the ball?
Here is how to do it..... Have each coach put a yard line on a piece of paper. Whichever coach puts the yard line closer to their own end zone gets the ball there, with it just being first team to score wins. Would you rather have the ball on your own 1 yard line or play defense from there? I think all coaches would play defense. I think the ‘break even’ yard line is probably around the 10 yard line.
Quote: SOOPOO. I believe so. The game clock takes precedence over the second team’s right to receive the ball. (I think!). It really is a STUPID way to run an overtime.
Here is how to do it..... Have each coach put a yard line on a piece of paper. Whichever coach puts the yard line closer to their own end zone gets the ball there, with it just being first team to score wins. Would you rather have the ball on your own 1 yard line or play defense from there? I think all coaches would play defense. I think the ‘break even’ yard line is probably around the 10 yard line.
Sounds like something the XFL would have tried out. Might be interesting.
Quote: SOOPOO.
Here is how to do it..... Have each coach put a yard line on a piece of paper. Whichever coach puts the yard line closer to their own end zone gets the ball there, with it just being first team to score wins. Would you rather have the ball on your own 1 yard line or play defense from there? I think all coaches would play defense. I think the ‘break even’ yard line is probably around the 10 yard line.
I like it
Giants-Colts, the Christmas Day OT, and there was one in the AFL.
There is nothing wrong with a tie. The greatest game in NCAA history ended in a tie. There is no reason why regular-season games cant end in a tie.
Make sudden death special again by eliminating it in the regular season.
Quote: billryanMy vote would be to do away with regular season overtime. Sudden death overtime used to be a huge deal when it happened.
Giants-Colts, the Christmas Day OT, and there was one in the AFL.
There is nothing wrong with a tie. The greatest game in NCAA history ended in a tie. There is no reason why regular-season games cant end in a tie.
Make sudden death special again by eliminating it in the regular season.
I wouldn’t mind this but would not be a fan of sudden death overtime for playoff games. Coin flip just too important in football SD.
Dodgeball style.Quote: billryanInstead of a coin flip, have both teams line up on their 40, put the ball on the fifty and whoever ends up with it gets the ball at the spot they recover it.
Quote: billryanInstead of a coin flip, have both teams line up on their 40, put the ball on the fifty and whoever ends up with it gets the ball at the spot they recover it.
Isn't that how the XFL originally did their kickoffs?
Quote: DRichIsn't that how the XFL originally did their kickoffs?
Sort of. They each selected a guy and they lined up side by side. Had to get to the ball like 10 yards away first. I think it was too injury prone to last beyond the first season.
Wait, the XFL only lasted 1 season then.
And, did you watch Tuesday night football? Titans beat the Bills by 26 points! With many starters out due to covid/quarantine. Without on-field practices and with closure of their workout and training facilities! They looked faster and better than Bills (who played pretty well.)
My conclusion:
Titans (4-0) may be a better team than we thought.
Quote: gordonm888Titans are exonerated by the NFL's covid investigators who say they found no evidence that any Titans player or employee knowingly broke a covid rule or protocol. So much for the social media chatter that Vrabel would be suspended for a year and team fined $50 million as a result of the investigation.
And, did you watch Tuesday night football? Titans beat the Bills by 26 points! With many starters out due to covid/quarantine. Without on-field practices and with closure of their workout and training facilities! They looked faster and better than Bills (who played pretty well.)
My conclusion:
Titans (4-0) may be a better team than we thought.
Titans missing way less important players than the Bills. Bills missing BOTH starting cornerbacks including maybe best in the league now Tradavious White. Also missing STAR linebacker Matt Milano, and key WR John Brown. That being said, Bills were whooped.
I don’t like Bills’ chances against Mahomes next weekend. I mean Monday.
Outfield: Willie Mays, Barry Bonds and Mike Trout
1B: Babe Ruth
2B; Jackie Robinson
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Alex Rodriguez
C: Johnny Bench
Can you pick a team of non-pitchers (maybe with a DH) that does not include those 8 guys that would be competitive with the above all-time team?
Quote: gordonm888I just read an on-line article in which a sports journalist picked the non-pitchers for an all-time baseball team:
Outfield: Willie Mays, Barry Bonds and Mike Trout
1B: Babe Ruth
2B; Jackie Robinson
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Alex Rodriguez
C: Johnny Bench
Can you pick a team of non-pitchers (maybe with a DH) that does not include those 8 guys that would be competitive with the above all-time team?
Where is Roberto Clemente? The guy played in an outfield the size of Rhode Island.
Quote: gordonm888I just read an on-line article in which a sports journalist picked the non-pitchers for an all-time baseball team:
Outfield: Willie Mays, Barry Bonds and Mike Trout
1B: Babe Ruth
2B; Jackie Robinson
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Alex Rodriguez
C: Johnny Bench
Can you pick a team of non-pitchers (maybe with a DH) that does not include those 8 guys that would be competitive with the above all-time team?
Babe Ruth at first?????
I'd put Babe on the mound
He was one of the greatest pitchers ever
Let him pitch and hit
Quote: AZDuffmanWhere is Roberto Clemente? The guy played in an outfield the size of Rhode Island.
He also had one of the great all-time arms for an outfielder. But, like many pioneering Latin players, he didn't walk that frequently and tends to be downrated by modern stats for that reason.
Quote: gordonm888I just read an on-line article in which a sports journalist picked the non-pitchers for an all-time baseball team:
Outfield: Willie Mays, Barry Bonds and Mike Trout
1B: Babe Ruth
2B; Jackie Robinson
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Alex Rodriguez
C: Johnny Bench
Can you pick a team of non-pitchers (maybe with a DH) that does not include those 8 guys that would be competitive with the above all-time team?
So many outfielders you might be able to create a better outfield than above. Easily would be competitive I think only positions a considerable difference maybe 1B, 2B, possibly 3rd 3rd base seems like a weak position historically looking at lists
OF: Ted Williams Hank Aaron Ken Griffey Jr (should probably be Cobb/Mantle/Musial/Clemente but my personal favorite and had to put a modern player in)
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Honus Wagner
3B: George Brett
C: Yogi Berra
Quote: terapinedBabe Ruth at first?????
I'd put Babe on the mound
He was one of the greatest pitchers ever
Let him pitch and hit
No, he wasn't. He had a great run during the World Series but he wasn't an all time great pitcher.
OF- Joe Dimaggio, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth
1B- Willie McCovey
2b- Rogers Hornsby
SS-Mickey Mantle
3b-George Brett
C- Yogi Berra
If I can't use Ruth as an outfielder because some guy thinks he is a first baseman, I'll slide Mantle into the outfield and put Ernie Banks at short.
Quote: terapinedBabe Ruth at first?????
I'd put Babe on the mound
He was one of the greatest pitchers ever
Let him pitch and hit
No, he wasn't. He had a great run during the World Series but he wasn't an all time great pitcher.
OF- Joe Dimaggio, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth
1B- Willie McCovey
2b- Rogers Hornsby
SS-Mickey Mantle
3b-George Brett
C- Yogi Berra
If I can't use Ruth as an outfielder because some guy thinks he is a first baseman, I'll slide Mantle into the outfield and put Ernie Banks at short.
OF: Stan Musial, Ty Cobb, Ted Williams
1b: Lou Gehrig
2b: Napoleon Lajoie
3b: Rogers Hornsby
SS: Honus Wagner
C: Mike Piazza
For some reason, Stan Musial has become lost to modern sensibility. He won the MVP 3 times and finished 2nd in MVP voting 4 times (and 4th once and 5th once and 6th once and 8th twice and 9th once and . . ) He lost one year in his prime to WWII and still had 3600 hits and 475 HRs, He never led the league in HRs but led the league in total bases 6 times.
Not sure about Piazza, I could be argued out of that one, I guess.
My second team would have been
OF: Tris Speaker, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle
1b: Jimmy Foxx
2b: Eddie Collins
3b: George Brett
SS: Ernie Banks
C: Roy Campanella
Quote: gordonm888He also had one of the great all-time arms for an outfielder. But, like many pioneering Latin players, he didn't walk that frequently and tends to be downrated by modern stats for that reason.
The stories I have heard about his arm are of legend. But I do not get the point of not walking?
A team that walks more gets starters out earlier and a hitter who walks more will get better pitches to swing at.
Joe Morgan would walk 110 times a season and steal second after a walk about twenty or more.
Tony Perez would walk 100 times and clog the bases. Not all walks are equal.
Quote: billryanNo, he wasn't. He had a great run during the World Series but he wasn't an all time great pitcher.
OF- Joe Dimaggio, Ted Williams, Babe Ruth
1B- Willie McCovey
2b- Rogers Hornsby
SS-Mickey Mantle
3b-George Brett
C- Yogi Berra
If I can't use Ruth as an outfielder because some guy thinks he is a first baseman, I'll slide Mantle into the outfield and put Ernie Banks at short.
Seems very generous to include Mantle as a SS. Wasn’t aware he had played there before seeing this, wiki says he played SS in the minors but a grand total of 7 games at SS in the majors.
It was dicey against the Astros
Thankfully they got it done
Always love it when moneyball teams go fa.
Hate it when the big spenders win
Go Rays. Congrats on making it to the World Series
Quote: mcallister3200Seems very generous to include Mantle as a SS. Wasn’t aware he had played there before seeing this, wiki says he played SS in the minors but a grand total of 7 games at SS in the majors.
Yankees had a Hall of Fame/ MVP player at Short in Phil Rizzuto when Mantle joined them. Just like what happened when ARod joined them. I will concede seven games in the majors isn't enough. So put Mantle at First and Ernie Banks at Short. I thought about putting ARod at Short but decided to go drug free. Probably should put Lou Gehrig at First, but Mickey Mantle was the man!
Quote: terapinedHow about them Rays
It was dicey against the Astros
Thankfully they got it done
Always love it when moneyball teams go fa.
Hate it when the big spenders win
Go Rays. Congrats on making it to the World Series
I was happy to see the Rays win with their small payroll. Hopefully today we can get the Braves in and Dodgers out. I am sure the TV networks are rooting for the Dodgers as no non fan will watch Rays vs Braves.
he had 264 total yards yesterday
the Titans as a team had over 600 yards
Quote: gordonm888I just read an on-line article in which a sports journalist picked the non-pitchers for an all-time baseball team:
Outfield: Willie Mays, Barry Bonds and Mike Trout
1B: Babe Ruth
2B; Jackie Robinson
3B: Mike Schmidt
SS: Alex Rodriguez
C: Johnny Bench
Can you pick a team of non-pitchers (maybe with a DH) that does not include those 8 guys that would be competitive with the above all-time team?
Point the first: Baseball has this weird historical context where people think it is the only sport where athletes born before World War I are equally competitive with contemporary players. Imagine if someone listed a defensive back a point guard from over 100 years ago as the best ever. Yet Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, are all common names among best ever baseball players. For this, I will go with whomever helped their team the most.
Point the second: Ruth barely ever played first base. If someone is going to list him there, just pick the eight best players, then figure out a way to get them in the lineup. Move Bonds to second base, so Williams can play in left field, and let Mantle play third base. I will not do this.
Best catcher in baseball history was Josh Gibson.
First base is Gehrig, if there is no era adjustment; Pujols if there is.
Second base is either Collins on Morgan. Hornsby is also ahead of Robinson.
Wager at short stop. Ripken is probably the next best after A-Rod.
Mathews is very close to Schmidt (and Brett is very close after that).
Williams is the second best left fielder; Mantle is still ahead of Pujols as the second best ever in center field, and his best seasons were better than Mays' best; Aaron is the second best right fielder.
The team I came up with has an advantage at 1B and RF, as the original author did not pick anyone for those positions. The team I picked also has an edge at C and 2B. SS could go either way. His team has a slight edge at 3B, LF, and CF. So look at that, he got the first eight picks and I still came up with a better lineup. Not even Marcia Clark blew a lead that big.
Ruth was not an all-time great pitcher, 1200 innings with an ERA+ of 122. Bret Saberhagen pitched twice as many innings with a better adjusted ERA.
Quote: TomGPoint the first: Baseball has this weird historical context where people think it is the only sport where athletes born before World War I are equally competitive with contemporary players. Imagine if someone listed a defensive back a point guard from over 100 years ago as the best ever. Yet Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, are all common names among best ever baseball players. For this, I will go with whomever helped their team the most.
Point the second: Ruth barely ever played first base. If someone is going to list him there, just pick the eight best players, then figure out a way to get them in the lineup. Move Bonds to second base, so Williams can play in left field, and let Mantle play third base. I will not do this.
Best catcher in baseball history was Josh Gibson.
First base is Gehrig, if there is no era adjustment; Pujols if there is.
Second base is either Collins on Morgan. Hornsby is also ahead of Robinson.
Wager at short stop. Ripken is probably the next best after A-Rod.
Mathews is very close to Schmidt (and Brett is very close after that).
Williams is the second best left fielder; Mantle is still ahead of Pujols as the second best ever in center field, and his best seasons were better than Mays' best; Aaron is the second best right fielder.
The team I came up with has an advantage at 1B and RF, as the original author did not pick anyone for those positions. The team I picked also has an edge at C and 2B. SS could go either way. His team has a slight edge at 3B, LF, and CF. So look at that, he got the first eight picks and I still came up with a better lineup. Not even Marcia Clark blew a lead that big.
Ruth was not an all-time great pitcher, 1200 innings with an ERA+ of 122. Bret Saberhagen pitched twice as many innings with a better adjusted ERA.
Josh Gibson is tough to compare with Bench, Berra, Dickey, Campanella, Piazza, etc. Who would you pick at Catcher from the Major Leagues?
Quote: mcallister3200Piazza is a tough one to place since he was so poor defensively. It took piazza it looks like four years of eligibility to get into the HOF. He was either penalized because he was so easy to run on, because there was some suspicion of PED use, or both. I suppose George Brett kind of falls in the great hitter poor fielder category too.
For best defensive catchers who would be ahead of Yadiar Molina?
Quote: mcallister3200Piazza is a tough one to place since he was so poor defensively. It took piazza it looks like four years of eligibility to get into the HOF. He was either penalized because he was so easy to run on, because there was some suspicion of PED use, or both. I suppose George Brett kind of falls in the great hitter poor fielder category too.
Brett was definitely an above average defensive third baseman. Behind the most of the other all-time greats at the position, like Schmidt, Santo, Beltre, Rolen, Robinson; ahead of Boggs and Jones; about even with Mathews.
The most important defensive skill for a catcher is pitch framing. The best data we have for that only goes back about 10 years, there is some data that goes back about 30 years. Piazza was definitely above average in that area, which made him a passable defensive catcher. Still not Rodriguez level, but much closer than people thought when they were playing.
Bench was the best catcher in Major League history. I would take Piazza as second best, just because we know nothing about Berra's framing, so I'll value him as about average. If anyone is able to show he had some value in that area, he could move to second (as could Carter, Fisk, Cochrane, Torre, Dickey, etc., if any of them were all-time greats in that area).
Probably the first and last active 100 year old major sports media journalist. Started selling newspapers at the age of 9 so over 90 years in the newspaper business. Rest In Peace to every Minnesota sports fans “close personal friend,” Sid. What a life.
Quote: billryanI think people have this misconception that the Negro Leagues were somehow equivalent to the Major Leagues of the time. Josh Gibbons, Satchell Paige, Buck Leonard, and the rest played the vast majority of their games against pickup teams that often were made up of former high school players in whatever town they were in. It's not that they weren't great players, it's that they rarely played against competitive teams.
If we were to take the eight strongest Negro League teams from the 20s and 30s, they would have been comparable in talent to an average American League or National League team. Take the 150 to 200 best players who could not play because of their skin color and it would have been an equal.
Looking at a few years of Negro National League standings from those years, they typically played about 80 games per year against each other. That is not "rarely". That would mean up to another 50 to 100 days (and maybe 50 to 150 games) of barnstorming against whatever level of competition was available. I would hardly consider between 1/3 and 2/3 of games to be "the vast majority"
