JoelDeze
JoelDeze
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October 2nd, 2017 at 4:29:59 PM permalink
Chiefs are 3-0 ATS with a +12.17 cover diff above the spread margin, ranking #1 in the NFL on ATS this season. Chiefs have a +3 TM advantage over the Redskins. The only similar team each has played this season is Philadelphia. Chiefs won 27-20 while the Redskins lost 30-17. Chiefs have a 40% momentum change on offense in the first few weeks of the season, namely because of the consistent play of Kareem Hunt. Thank God his first name isn't Mike. Defensively, both teams are playing similar with the Redskins showing a drift up spike over a one week period with no confirmation. Kansas City is ranked #1 in the NFL in PERD (Passing Efficiency Rating Difference) with a massive +67.4457 to +23.4613 advantage over the Redskins. KC is also ranked #4 in the NFL in RERD (Rushing Efficiency Rating Difference) holding a +32.217 to +22.273 advantage over Washington.

Chiefs win 31-17.

Enjoy.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
HugoSlavia
HugoSlavia
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October 2nd, 2017 at 8:53:48 PM permalink
Easy money.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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October 2nd, 2017 at 9:37:38 PM permalink
LOL. Easy money?

KC leads by 3 with 4 seconds to go and decide to boot it into the end zone rather than do a squib.

Redskins do the play, fumble, and KC runs it into the end zone to make the 6.5 line. The play also changed the under to over.

I laughed out loud at the end of the game because I knew that millions of dollars turned hands on that stupid play. Not to mention the WoVers (Wizard and SooPoo) who had the Redskins +7 in the pool.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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October 2nd, 2017 at 9:48:58 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

I laughed out loud at the end of the game because I knew that millions of dollars turned hands on that stupid play. Not to mention the WoVers (Wizard and SooPoo) who had the Redskins +7 in the pool.



What a hideous beat that was.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
JoelDeze
JoelDeze
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October 2nd, 2017 at 10:07:44 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What a hideous beat that was.



It was a trifecta for me. I didn't wager a lot but I covered 3 wagers on this game:

Over 9.5 (1st Quarter)
Over 43.5 rushing yards (2H on Kareem Hunt)
-6.5 on KC to cover

The last play was indeed comical but KC missed a FG earlier in the game and they were crushing the entire night. Regardless of the drama, they doubled the Redskins on 1st Downs, outgained them by close to 100 yards, held a +15 min TOP. They honestly should have won by 13+ as I had forecasted. But, they covered.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
EdCollins
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October 2nd, 2017 at 10:12:50 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

...The play also changed the under to over.

Note that after that last play, it was still UNDER for many people. For many betters the over/under line was 49.5. In our forum contest, for example, the over/under line we used for the game was indeed 49.5.
michael99000
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October 2nd, 2017 at 10:34:40 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze



KC missed a FG earlier in the game and they were crushing the entire night.



Really? Let's see... they were losing 10-0 end of first quarter, losing by 3 at halftime , tied after the third, and were never at any point in the game covering the spread until the final play of the game, and needed 9 points in the last 8 seconds to cover that spread. Oh and they had 3 drives kept alive by silly Washington penalties.

Not what I'd call crushing
DRich
DRich
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October 3rd, 2017 at 6:41:05 AM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze


The last play was indeed comical but KC missed a FG earlier in the game and they were crushing the entire night.



I only watched the first half but I thought Washington was outplaying them.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
SM777
SM777
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October 3rd, 2017 at 7:44:25 AM permalink
Quote: michael99000

Really? Let's see... they were losing 10-0 end of first quarter, losing by 3 at halftime , tied after the third, and were never at any point in the game covering the spread until the final play of the game, and needed 9 points in the last 8 seconds to cover that spread. Oh and they had 3 drives kept alive by silly Washington penalties.

Not what I'd call crushing



He's also notorious for posting his winning wagers after the results as well, to show people he's "successful" and that you should purchase his tout service. Half of that was done in his post already in this thread.

I wouldn't put any stock into anything he says regarding sports betting.
JoelDeze
JoelDeze
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October 3rd, 2017 at 9:27:15 AM permalink
Quote: SM777

He's also notorious for posting his winning wagers after the results as well, to show people he's "successful" and that you should purchase his tout service. Half of that was done in his post already in this thread.

I wouldn't put any stock into anything he says regarding sports betting.



I posted a pick before the result. It won.
Where in any part of my post am I soliciting or attempting to solicit or linking/referencing any 3rd party site?

I'll ask the moderators to look at your post and determine if it violates the forum rules. It seems like a troll attempt to attack and harass me and includes a lot of misinformation.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
JoelDeze
JoelDeze
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October 3rd, 2017 at 9:31:02 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I only watched the first half but I thought Washington was outplaying them.



Washington won the first quarter. The Chiefs out gained them the rest of the way. The final score was not indicative of the outcome.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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October 3rd, 2017 at 9:35:24 AM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

Washington won the first quarter. The Chiefs out gained them the rest of the way. The final score was not indicative of the outcome.


Just like in a poker tournament. You don't have to win all of the hands, just the last one!
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Mission146
Mission146
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October 3rd, 2017 at 9:37:27 AM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

I posted a pick before the result. It won.
Where in any part of my post am I soliciting or attempting to solicit or linking/referencing any 3rd party site?

I'll ask the moderators to look at your post and determine if it violates the forum rules. It seems like a troll attempt to attack and harass me and includes a lot of misinformation.



He stated his opinion and you defended yourself. I donât think it rose to the level of an insult, and in my opinion, itâs have to be a repeated thing to really be called trolling.

You also picked prettt well in last yearâs Picks game, and those were definitely before start of game. Limited sample size, of course, but still looks good on you.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
JoelDeze
JoelDeze
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October 3rd, 2017 at 3:26:21 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


You also picked pretty well in last year's Picks game, and those were definitely before start of game. Limited sample size, of course, but still looks good on you.



I appreciate it Mission. I just want to state very clearly to anyone listening that I am not trying to provide any type of service of any kind, especially a tout/pick service. I'm here to have some fun and to be involved with sports and gambling. I enjoy both. I do however want people to be successful because I don't like the house winning all of the time.

This year I decided to wait until Week 4 of College and Week 4 of NFL to try out some new ATS regression modeling I've been working on heavily in the offseason. For college it seems to be rock solid. For the NFL, it works well when I pair it with PERD and RERD scenarios.

I'll add some College and NFL picks this week. I missed out the NFL pickem contest this year. I've been heavily involved in multiple projects this year so I've just been plain busy.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
speedycrap
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October 3rd, 2017 at 4:50:25 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

I appreciate it Mission. I just want to state very clearly to anyone listening that I am not trying to provide any type of service of any kind, especially a tout/pick service. I'm here to have some fun and to be involved with sports and gambling. I enjoy both. I do however want people to be successful because I don't like the house winning all of the time.

This year I decided to wait until Week 4 of College and Week 4 of NFL to try out some new ATS regression modeling I've been working on heavily in the offseason. For college it seems to be rock solid. For the NFL, it works well when I pair it with PERD and RERD scenarios.

I'll add some College and NFL picks this week. I missed out the NFL pickem contest this year. I've been heavily involved in multiple projects this year so I've just been plain busy.

I love freebie. If I win anything from this, I will buy u a drink and even dinner in Vegas (one day).
djatc
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October 3rd, 2017 at 6:47:07 PM permalink
I had Chiefs -6.5 what a crazy win
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
monet0412
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October 3rd, 2017 at 10:39:38 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

I had Chiefs -6.5 what a crazy win



I am sure that all the players who bet on New England and the Over last Super Bowl felt the same way... nothing really new. I usually lose in the book anyway but I try not to watch the games. I just check the scores when they are finished and could care less how anything happened. I only care about if my team won or covered the spread.
onenickelmiracle
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October 3rd, 2017 at 11:35:11 PM permalink
It made my day. I'll be shocked if Kansas City beats Houston but not too shocked.
I am a robot.
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2017 at 8:14:49 AM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

I just want to state very clearly to anyone listening that I am not trying to provide any type of service of any kind, especially a tout/pick service. I'm here to have some fun and to be involved with sports and gambling. I enjoy both. I do however want people to be successful because I don't like the house winning all of the time.

That's what they all say (-;

You do have some type of website and or paied service or something like that correct? Ya, I know, the fees are small, just enough to cover the costs.

I think SM777 was probably out of line, but I think its good to keep the sports guys in check.

How is your never losing craps system(or whatever you call it) going?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2017 at 8:20:44 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

He stated his opinion and you defended yourself. I donât think it rose to the level of an insult, and in my opinion, itâs have to be a repeated thing to really be called trolling.

You also picked prettt well in last yearâs Picks game, and those were definitely before start of game. Limited sample size, of course, but still looks good on you.

SM777 "He's also notorious for posting his winning wagers after the results as well, to show people he's "successful" and that you should purchase his tout service."

I guess I don't know the difference between a statement presenting something as fact VS. an opinion. Can you explain to me how this is just an opinion?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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October 4th, 2017 at 9:08:13 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

SM777 "He's also notorious for posting his winning wagers after the results as well, to show people he's "successful" and that you should purchase his tout service."

I guess I don't know the difference between a statement presenting something as fact VS. an opinion. Can you explain to me how this is just an opinion?



The point is that there is no Personal Insult or infraction of Forum Rules that I can see, which is what matters. I said, 'Opinion,' only because I do not recall JoelDeze posting picks after the results were known, so I cannot speak with authority as to that accusation. I'm not saying he has ever done that, I'm not saying he has never done that. I don't know that he owns a tout service and have no desire to research the matter, but SM777 said nothing in his post to prove that JoelDeze does, so again, I said, 'Opinion.'

Point is, if someone is going to make an accusation in a post, then it would be proper form to also prove that accusation in the very same post. If no such accusation is proven, and I lack personal knowledge, I am going to call it an, 'Opinion.'

Either way, I see no infraction against JoelDeze whatsoever in the post of SM777, which is really the heart of the issue at hand.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
speedycrap
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Thanked by
Mission146
October 4th, 2017 at 9:16:50 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The point is that there is no Personal Insult or infraction of Forum Rules that I can see, which is what matters. I said, 'Opinion,' only because I do not recall JoelDeze posting picks after the results were known, so I cannot speak with authority as to that accusation. I'm not saying he has ever done that, I'm not saying he has never done that. I don't know that he owns a tout service and have no desire to research the matter, but SM777 said nothing in his post to prove that JoelDeze does, so again, I said, 'Opinion.'

Point is, if someone is going to make an accusation in a post, then it would be proper form to also prove that accusation in the very same post. If no such accusation is proven, and I lack personal knowledge, I am going to call it an, 'Opinion.'

Either way, I see no infraction against JoelDeze whatsoever in the post of SM777, which is really the heart of the issue at hand.

After reading all these posts, I believe I am getting closer to become a lawyer.
Mission146
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October 4th, 2017 at 9:21:44 AM permalink
Quote: speedycrap

After reading all these posts, I believe I am getting closer to become a lawyer.



Law firms should take Forum Administration experience in lieu of a pertinent degree, jk.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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October 4th, 2017 at 11:29:48 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The point is that there is no Personal Insult or infraction of Forum Rules that I can see, which is what matters. I said, 'Opinion,' only because I do not recall JoelDeze posting picks after the results were known, so I cannot speak with authority as to that accusation. I'm not saying he has ever done that, I'm not saying he has never done that. I don't know that he owns a tout service and have no desire to research the matter, but SM777 said nothing in his post to prove that JoelDeze does, so again, I said, 'Opinion.'

Point is, if someone is going to make an accusation in a post, then it would be proper form to also prove that accusation in the very same post. If no such accusation is proven, and I lack personal knowledge, I am going to call it an, 'Opinion.'

Either way, I see no infraction against JoelDeze whatsoever in the post of SM777, which is really the heart of the issue at hand.

If Jole does notoriously post his winning wagers after the results, then its a fact, not an opinion. If he doesn't, then MS777 is lying and presenting something as fact in order to discredit and shame another member. How is that not obvious? SM777 got me wondering if Joel has, in fact, posted winners after the fact. If true, this makes Joel look bad since he would have us believe his program gives people an advantage.

I still can't see how anyone(you) can use the opinion clause on this, its a stretch for sure. While I'm not calling for a suspension, I think he should prove his claim or be forced to change or retract his statement.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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October 4th, 2017 at 12:48:53 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

If Jole does notoriously post his winning wagers after the results, then its a fact, not an opinion. If he doesn't, then MS777 is lying and presenting something as fact in order to discredit and shame another member. How is that not obvious? SM777 got me wondering if Joel has, in fact, posted winners after the fact. If true, this makes Joel look bad since he would have us believe his program gives people an advantage.

I still can't see how anyone(you) can use the opinion clause on this, its a stretch for sure. While I'm not calling for a suspension, I think he should prove his claim or be forced to change or retract his statement.



I mean, it is provable, and thats why I said it would be good girl to indicate some proof in that post. Should it really be upon me to read every post JoelDeze has ever written on this site and perhaps others to prove or disprove something.

The question was insult or trolling, and I saw neither in that post.

When we talk winners, he might have meant in this thread when JD said he nailed the game three ways. One was posted before the game and the other two werent, so to me, its opinion.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
SM777
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October 4th, 2017 at 9:17:56 PM permalink
View this thread by JoelDeeze (page 6) https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/26907-college-football-picks-consolidated/6/#post562609

Someone else actually called him out for posting his picks after the games.

JoelDeeze tried to scam people into signing up for his website/service early on in his college picks, but they weren't going so well and I don't think anyone bit on his free trial he was offering. That's a fact as well.
onenickelmiracle
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October 4th, 2017 at 9:44:12 PM permalink
The cost of advice doesn't mean the end result is worthless. People want to believe someone knows more than them and are willing to pay to hear it. That's what they're paying for, to believe they're getting good informAtion, not for getting good information. I could throw darts, tell someone I have an algorithm and what difference is there. They want to win and they want to lose. If you help them do either, they win.
I don't think it's a scam, the advice might be worthless, might be harmful because it's wrong, might cost more than the buyer can get from it, but personal responsibility is their responsibility in the first place. Lets look at it as a horoscope, without any way to verify and for entertainment some people feel good paying for.
I am a robot.
JoelDeze
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October 5th, 2017 at 3:57:43 AM permalink
Quote: SM777

View this thread by JoelDeeze (page 6) https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/26907-college-football-picks-consolidated/6/#post562609

Someone else actually called him out for posting his picks after the games.

JoelDeeze tried to scam people into signing up for his website/service early on in his college picks, but they weren't going so well and I don't think anyone bit on his free trial he was offering. That's a fact as well.



I would like to ask the moderators to review this as well and then have SM prove within this forum where I ever attempted to scam people to sign up for a service or where I posted a link to a service oriented site.

Also, in the reference link he posted I had posted before the game was played that I had been leaning towards a pick and it won. Z was simply telling me that if I posted this is an official pick I would get more credit. Since that time, when I post a pick I do in fact do that.

SM has followed my posts repeatedly and provided a lot of misinformation. I understand he doesn't like me. I'm fine with that. But, I would politely ask that he stop. It's pretty silly, imho.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
JoelDeze
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October 5th, 2017 at 4:38:33 AM permalink
I shouldn't have to do this but first game of the season for me so here:

4 wagers in total (painted my account out of the pictures):





And, having to post/verify wagers is not something I'm going to do all of the time. But, in this case, I will. And, first game of the season for me for wagering so the total amount I will spend on one game is around $400 or less.

I lost the 2-play parlay but still won $50 on the over 1st Q wager. I won the Chiefs outright. I won the 2h on Kareem Hunt. I believe that covers the 3 wagers I mentioned in my first post does it not?

Overall, ended up with +$200 on the game via the plays I made.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
SM777
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October 5th, 2017 at 5:18:04 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

I would like to ask the moderators to review this as well and then have SM prove within this forum where I ever attempted to scam people to sign up for a service or where I posted a link to a service oriented site.

Also, in the reference link he posted I had posted before the game was played that I had been leaning towards a pick and it won. Z was simply telling me that if I posted this is an official pick I would get more credit. Since that time, when I post a pick I do in fact do that.

SM has followed my posts repeatedly and provided a lot of misinformation. I understand he doesn't like me. I'm fine with that. But, I would politely ask that he stop. It's pretty silly, imho.



So you in fact did NOT type "4-1 on plays I posted.... Won on 2 earlier games this week so I've gone 6-1 on wagers?"

Why must you deny that you posted games as wins after they were over? I don't understand, it's literally in the link I posted. You added 2 games to your record that were unposted. I don't even remember it, but it looks like you tried to stick an NFL "winner" in there too to pad your college record. I'm seeing that now as well. And it's quite obvious you were doing it to pad your record to get people to sign up for your website.

In that thread multiple people mention posting winners after the results are in, not listing the correct juice when you stupidly buy points, and one member even thanks you for his free password and login to your scam site. It's clear as day, and even funnier that you're trying to deny it.
AxelWolf
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October 6th, 2017 at 2:31:49 AM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

I shouldn't have to do this but first game of the season for me so here:

4 wagers in total (painted my account out of the pictures):





And, having to post/verify wagers is not something I'm going to do all of the time. But, in this case, I will. And, first game of the season for me for wagering so the total amount I will spend on one game is around $400 or less.

I lost the 2-play parlay but still won $50 on the over 1st Q wager. I won the Chiefs outright. I won the 2h on Kareem Hunt. I believe that covers the 3 wagers I mentioned in my first post does it not?

Overall, ended up with +$200 on the game via the plays I made.

A stellar sports better such as yourself should be adding at least 2 zeros to them bests.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ZenKinG
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October 6th, 2017 at 4:55:05 AM permalink
When will you people realize sports is beyond rigged. Just look at that play at the end. The guy fumbles for no reason. Wouldnt be surprised if players in the professional leagues arent in on it for a friend or a big whale paying them off. Ive seen so many strange things watching NBA and other sports that just make you go hmmm.
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
monet0412
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October 6th, 2017 at 7:10:59 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

When will you people realize sports is beyond rigged. Just look at that play at the end. The guy fumbles for no reason. Wouldnt be surprised if players in the professional leagues arent in on it for a friend or a big whale paying them off. Ive seen so many strange things watching NBA and other sports that just make you go hmmm.



This is funny. I hear it almost every day for decades now. However the really humorous thing is people like you or even yourself continue to play games that they say and believe are rigged. You and these fine fellas I know keep watching all the sporting events that are... rigged. One guy is actually called the Rigged Man here in Vegas... or Rigman if you will. This is his literal nickname because he is always crying rigged... especially in the NBA which he calls the RIGGED BA or RIGBA lol... I don't understand why you guys even bother.

Here are two pictures from my session last night from the RIGGED CASINO in Mob Invested Las Vegas... where I somehow went home winner... Total Win was just over + $9300 not counting comp and cash back or other perks.

However I did bet the RIGGED NFL and pushed for 550 dollars when the score finished 19-14 and I gave up the 5 points with NE.

If sports or a sporting event is rigged which I am sure they are at times... all you need is the inside information and you won't ever complain again!

$12,000 Royal



$3,120 set of Deuces

Last edited by: monet0412 on Oct 6, 2017
JoelDeze
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October 6th, 2017 at 11:59:13 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

A stellar sports better such as yourself should be adding at least 2 zeros to them bests.



Not on Week 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and possibly even 7. I'm a very patient person and wait until latter weeks to bet larger. What I wager should have nothing to do with the pick. If it wins, I win. If someone wagered $10,000 on it and won, great for them! My system is data driven and data is much more reliable mid to end season.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
Rigondeaux
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October 6th, 2017 at 12:06:39 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

The cost of advice doesn't mean the end result is worthless. People want to believe someone knows more than them and are willing to pay to hear it. That's what they're paying for, to believe they're getting good informAtion, not for getting good information. I could throw darts, tell someone I have an algorithm and what difference is there. They want to win and they want to lose. If you help them do either, they win.
I don't think it's a scam, the advice might be worthless, might be harmful because it's wrong, might cost more than the buyer can get from it, but personal responsibility is their responsibility in the first place. Lets look at it as a horoscope, without any way to verify and for entertainment some people feel good paying for.



If knowingly selling bad financial advice is not a scam, what is?
Rigondeaux
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October 6th, 2017 at 12:12:46 PM permalink
Quote: monet0412



However I did bet the RIGGED NFL and pushed for 550 dollars when the score finished 19-14 and I gave up the 5 points with NE.

If sports or a sporting event is rigged which I am sure they are at times... all you need is the inside information and you won't ever complain again!



Exactly. And the funny thing is, they'll often claim to know how it was rigged, after betting on the other side.

"Of course the refs rigged the games for the team with LeBron." If you know that, why aren't you extremely rich?

I actually have made some money off boxing being corrupt. It's not rigged, usually, and it's pretty complicated. But judges are the direct employees of the promoters. The judges also work in the boxing industry. They want that industry to do well. If a rising young star is derailed by a savvy journeyman, millions of dollars might be taken out of the business in which they work.

Now, if it were outright rigged, you could just bet everything you own every time. But, there is an edge there in some cases.
JoelDeze
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October 6th, 2017 at 1:18:03 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Exactly. And the funny thing is, they'll often claim to know how it was rigged, after betting on the other side.

"Of course the refs rigged the games for the team with LeBron." If you know that, why aren't you extremely rich?

I actually have made some money off boxing being corrupt. It's not rigged, usually, and it's pretty complicated. But judges are the direct employees of the promoters. The judges also work in the boxing industry. They want that industry to do well. If a rising young star is derailed by a savvy journeyman, millions of dollars might be taken out of the business in which they work.

Now, if it were outright rigged, you could just bet everything you own every time. But, there is an edge there in some cases.



I have a friend of mine who really does well on Tennis matches. While I hate that particular sport and would never watch it if I were paid to watch it, I believe it to be one of the more honorable sports. Golf as well. I find it very difficult to put wagers on 1v1 sports, especially boxing matches.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
Mission146
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October 6th, 2017 at 2:29:09 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

When will you people realize sports is beyond rigged. Just look at that play at the end. The guy fumbles for no reason. Wouldnt be surprised if players in the professional leagues arent in on it for a friend or a big whale paying them off. Ive seen so many strange things watching NBA and other sports that just make you go hmmm.



Must be those Chinese manufactured footballs.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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October 6th, 2017 at 2:33:10 PM permalink
Quote: JoelDeze

I have a friend of mine who really does well on Tennis matches. While I hate that particular sport and would never watch it if I were paid to watch it, I believe it to be one of the more honorable sports. Golf as well. I find it very difficult to put wagers on 1v1 sports, especially boxing matches.

Google: tennis players rigging matches or some variant of that.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Ibeatyouraces
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October 6th, 2017 at 2:34:40 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Must be those Chinese manufactured footballs.



👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
monet0412
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October 6th, 2017 at 2:36:26 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Must be those Chinese manufactured footballs.



Just too easy but really funny to me at least!

Quote: JoelDeze

I have a friend of mine who really does well on Tennis matches. While I hate that particular sport and would never watch it if I were paid to watch it, I believe it to be one of the more honorable sports. Golf as well. I find it very difficult to put wagers on 1v1 sports, especially boxing matches.



I thought that Tennis just got caught a year or so ago for fixing matches? Especially matches that nobody cared about or that wasn't televised and doubles matches as well. I don't mind that the fix is in on any match or any sport... I just want to know which way the fix is going to go before I bet. I certainly can't get upset betting in the sports book and losing even if the game was rigged or fixed. They certainly didn't hold a gun to my head to go and bet on the NFL, NHL, NBA, or MLB. It is just an American Tradition or Culture to put money on sporting events... especially if you live in Vegas.

This reminds me of people playing in Poker Games where they know players have cheated before or they know that they are teaming up. How can you be mad when you get cheated in that game... you know they are cheating and yet you keep playing with them.
AxelWolf
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October 6th, 2017 at 2:37:12 PM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

When will you people realize sports is beyond rigged. Just look at that play at the end. The guy fumbles for no reason. Wouldnt be surprised if players in the professional leagues arent in on it for a friend or a big whale paying them off. Ive seen so many strange things watching NBA and other sports that just make you go hmmm.

Sounds like a bettor could make a significant amount of money if it's rigged.

Imagine all the live in-game betting opportunities you would have.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
onenickelmiracle
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October 7th, 2017 at 5:26:12 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

When will you people realize sports is beyond rigged. Just look at that play at the end. The guy fumbles for no reason. Wouldnt be surprised if players in the professional leagues arent in on it for a friend or a big whale paying them off. Ive seen so many strange things watching NBA and other sports that just make you go hmmm.

He fumbled for a reason. At the end of the game, first of all, most of the people touching the ball are not too used to it, and they have no reason to want to not fumble. Fumbling keeps the game alive, another member of his team could possibly pick it up, then lateral to another, hopefully eventually going down field. Now I think about it, hooked had no reason to score, he it could be argued, should have just went down and not risk losing possession.
I am a robot.
monet0412
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October 7th, 2017 at 5:29:33 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

He fumbled for a reason. At the end of the game, first of all, most of the people touching the ball are not too used to it, and they have no reason to want to not fumble. Fumbling keeps the game alive, another member of his team could possibly pick it up, then lateral to another, hopefully eventually going down field. Now I think about it, hooked had no reason to score, he it could be argued, should have just went down and not risk losing possession.



I think it's safe to say scoring a touch down on Monday Night Football is every players dream!?
gordonm888
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October 7th, 2017 at 7:45:17 AM permalink
If JoelDeze wants to post free NFL picks on the WOV forum then I thinks its a positive contribution to the forum. We're all adults and capable of evaluating Joel as a picker and his specific picks. I personally haven't seen anything in his WOV posts that comes even remotely close to violating a forum rule. Just saying.

I also value reading Axel's skeptical comments about JoelDeze and Joel's responses. I just think the suggestion that Joel has done something that merits being banned is unfair/wrong.

Stay calm and play on.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
gordonm888
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October 7th, 2017 at 8:06:58 AM permalink
Quote: ZenKinG

When will you people realize sports is beyond rigged. Just look at that play at the end. The guy fumbles for no reason. Wouldnt be surprised if players in the professional leagues arent in on it for a friend or a big whale paying them off. Ive seen so many strange things watching NBA and other sports that just make you go hmmm.



I'm not saying that no game/contest has ever been rigged in any sport. In particular, 1-on-1 sports like tennis, boxing and martial arts are most susceptible to tampering. And I know the NBA and college basketball have occasionally (but very rarely) had issues.

But the NFL? No way. With 45 players on a team roster and 11 players on the field on any given play, no one could predict beforehand that any one player (other than a starting QB) could make an action that would decisively change the outcome of a sports wager. And players can make more money by playing well than by throwing a game and subsequently being cut for their bad play on the field. Its just not credible to claim the end of the KC game was due to 'rigging.'
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Rigondeaux
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October 7th, 2017 at 10:36:13 AM permalink
People always think sports are rigged in the most obvious fashion imaginable. "Let's wait until there's 11 seconds left in the game and have a missed field goal returned for a touchdown."

Never, let's just pay the field goal kicker to have a crappy day.

But then, obviously, even a field goal kicker makes so much money, what can you pay him to screw up his career and risk going to prison?
ZenKinG
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October 11th, 2017 at 11:03:28 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Sounds like a bettor could make a significant amount of money if it's rigged.

Imagine all the live in-game betting opportunities you would have.



I already thought about that, but it still doesn't entice me to bet.

My idea back then was this: This might need a back-test of some sort to see if there is a long term edge, but from some anecdotal evidence or selective memory, more than not if an NBA road underdog has a somewhat sizeable lead such as 8-10 points after halftime or a small lead going into the 4th, the favored home team almost always comes back and covers and im sure there will be great value on the in game odds especially at half time if the underdog is up by 10-15 points etc. I would only touch the games where the favored team is at home and needs to come back. If you can find that road underdog team on a back-to-back as well that can add some tremendous value as well.

I used to do a bunch of back-testing years ago with just pen and paper and i actually found some value. One of the back testing systems i did was find a road team that was on a back to back AFTER losing their previous game and then see if the home team for that game covered the spread regardless of the skill level of that team. Even better and another variation i did was use the same criteria but have that back to back team lose their previous game at HOME and then have to travel that night on a back to back to the road city and see if the home team covered.

I tried a bunch of different variations, which i cant remember now off the top of my head but several of them had value. Still didn't interest me to start betting though. The live-betting interested me more, but I knew of only one bookie that offered it and I dont think they offer it anymore. Live-betting to me seems like you can get a significant edge and seems to be an under-rated aspect of betting. Just like blackjack, in-game betting already has past information displayed to you and with the right studying and picking your spots, I think there could be major value in it. Maybe one day I'll try it out.
Last edited by: ZenKinG on Oct 11, 2017
Any private business open to the PUBLIC (ie. droned out casinos) cannot have a criminal trespass enforced against an individual without GOOD CAUSE (Disruptive or Disorderly conduct). You will never go to prison for being thrown out of a casino for legal advantage play and then returning because it's simply unconstitutional 'as applied' to the individual. 'As applied' constitutional issues must FIRST be raised in DISTRICT COURT (trial court) to have it thrown out. You CANNOT raise it on APPEAL This is the best kept secret in the world of casinos not just in Vegas but everywhere in the country. Thank me later.
AxelWolf
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October 12th, 2017 at 2:10:10 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

If JoelDeze wants to post free NFL picks on the WOV forum then I thinks its a positive contribution to the forum. We're all adults and capable of evaluating Joel as a picker and his specific picks. I personally haven't seen anything in his WOV posts that comes even remotely close to violating a forum rule. Just saying.

I also value reading Axel's skeptical comments about JoelDeze and Joel's responses. I just think the suggestion that Joel has done something that merits being banned is unfair/wrong.

Stay calm and play on.

Did I suggest he had done something that merits him being banned? I don't recall that. I thought SM777 was a tad bit over the line with his comments. I thought Mission used some BS when claiming what SM777 said was just an opinion.

For someone who I consider a clever tout, I like JoelDeze, he seems like a very smart individual, even if he claims he can beat -EV craps with voodoo.(how's that going, Joel?). He never insults anyone or gets heated(that may be in the advanced guide to clever touting handbook)

IIRC he has a website that includes something about beating horses with astrology or something like that?
Add that to his "never losing" craps stories and I have a hard time believing he's got the keys to beating football.

I have to respect his website, software program and the fact that he seems to be doing something he really likes/loves.

With that being said. I think anyone who is claiming they have a winning system or giving out picks should be scrutinized heavily. Any past posting us or mistakes should get criticised heavily.

If you want to hear my really skeptical side. I was skeptical when Joel decided to get into card counting( back into counting?). I was thinking to myself, Joel figured out that Craps and voodoo crap gets no respect around here. What a better way to gain some support, than by stoking some egos and getting some BJ advice from someone like Romes and "becoming a legit" +EVer.

Now, who's astopsychic, Joel?
Last edited by: AxelWolf on Oct 12, 2017
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
JoelDeze
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October 12th, 2017 at 4:58:52 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Did I suggest he had done something that merits him being banned? I don't recall that. I thought SM777 was a tad bit over the line with his comments. I thought Mission used some BS when claiming what SM777 said was just an opinion.

For someone who I consider a clever tout, I like JoelDeze, he seems like a very smart individual, even if he claims he can beat -EV craps with voodoo.(how's that going, Joel?). He never insults anyone or gets heated(that may be in the advanced guide to clever touting handbook)

IIRC he has a website that includes something about beating horses with astrology or something like that?
Add that to his "never losing" craps stories and I have a hard time believing he's got the keys to beating football.

I have to respect his website, software program and the fact that he seems to be doing something he really likes/loves.

With that being said. I think anyone who is claiming they have a winning system or giving out picks should be scrutinized heavily. Any past posting us or mistakes should get criticised heavily.

If you want to hear my really skeptical side. I was skeptical when Joel decided to get into card counting( back into counting?). I was thinking to myself, Joel figured out that Craps and voodoo crap gets no respect around here. What a better way to gain some support, than by stoking some egos and getting some BJ advice from someone like Romes and "becoming a legit" +EVer.

Now, who's astopsychic, Joel?



After playing for a very long time, and trying out as many different strategies as possible, none of them worked for blackjack or craps. I can only say that in the end I lost a considerable amount of money. I stopped playing blackjack entirely. As for craps, I play very seldom now. In the beginning, I was doing well at both games. In the end, the house wins over time.

As for sports, I only do football. And, it's all done programmatically using regression based research and a great deal of math.

I don't get heated or angry with people because it doesn't promote a positive response or even a neutral response. There are good arguments that aren't built on negative exchanges and those are the ones worthy of conversation.
Its a dog eat dog world out there and Im wearing milkbone underwear . Norm Peterson
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