WoV Picks Game 2014 (Discussion Thread)
Quote: Mission146I'm going to allow Buzzard's picks:
Cincinnati +3
Tennessee +5.5
Miami +3
Jacksonville +5.5
Saint Louis +7
They were only an hour late, and I doubt if he used any kind of consensus picking to make his own.
I have to protest. It's one thing to get them in late, but quite another to get them in after everyone else's picks have been published. I think he should take an 0-5 if he wants to continue.
I don't think you need consensus picks, you just need to know what the Wizard is doing to have an edge.
Quote: Mission146I'm going to allow Buzzard's picks:
Cincinnati +3
Tennessee +5.5
Miami +3
Jacksonville +5.5
Saint Louis +7
They were only an hour late, and I doubt if he used any kind of consensus picking to make his own.
That is definitely not fair.
This contest has clear rules, and you already added a second, extra bye week. Buzzard has now missed three weeks.
Quote: sodawaterThat is definitely not fair.
This contest has clear rules, and you already added a second, extra bye week. Buzzard has now missed three weeks.
I'll tell you guys what I'm going to do, then. The only way this has a negative effect on anyone is if Buzzard wins, so what we'll do is that Buzzard went 4-1 this week, so we'll take the 4-1 out of his record at the end of the season if he is in first place and we'll see if he still wins after that.
Does that sound fair?
I received his PM 32 minutes after I posted the Picks.
Quote: Mission146I'll tell you guys what I'm going to do, then. The only way this has a negative effect on anyone is if Buzzard wins, so what we'll do is that Buzzard went 4-1 this week, so we'll take the 4-1 out of his record at the end of the season if he is in first place and we'll see if he still wins after that.
Does that sound fair?
I received his PM 32 minutes after I posted the Picks.
Same as 0-5, so I am satisfied.
Any word from VCUSkyhawk? Maybe he's off making real money with his picks.
Quote: Mission146I'll tell you guys what I'm going to do, then. The only way this has a negative effect on anyone is if Buzzard wins, so what we'll do is that Buzzard went 4-1 this week, so we'll take the 4-1 out of his record at the end of the season if he is in first place and we'll see if he still wins after that.
Does that sound fair?
I received his PM 32 minutes after I posted the Picks.
It has a negative effect on the winner by reducing the amount owed because 4-1 instead of 0-5 will result in a higher win percentage.
Quote: Mission146I'll tell you guys what I'm going to do, then. The only way this has a negative effect on anyone is if Buzzard wins, so what we'll do is that Buzzard went 4-1 this week, so we'll take the 4-1 out of his record at the end of the season if he is in first place and we'll see if he still wins after that.
Does that sound fair?
I received his PM 32 minutes after I posted the Picks.
Wait, this is not fair at all.
The point is that you have to make picks every week, except your limited byes. If you take out his 4-1 at the end of the season "to see if he still wins," that has the effect of giving an extra bye.
People with high winning percentages would want extra byes.
I would like to take byes the remainder of the season and gamble that my percentage would be good enough to win.
Also, recording it as 4-1 is not fair to the eventual winner in terms of money owed.
The only fair way is to record it as 0-5.
I don't see how the 32 mins after posting the picks publicly matters. So now does everyone get one week where he can PM his picks a half-hour after the public picks? If I am trailing Wizard by 4 games going into the last week, I will be sure to pick against him every game and PM them 30 mins after the post.
I WILL DROP OUT AND PAY THE WINNER. I THOUGHT I HAD TILL MIDNIGHT SATURDAY TO POST !
Quote: BuzzardSCREW IT> HAVE FUN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I WILL DROP OUT AND PAY THE WINNER. I THOUGHT I HAD TILL MIDNIGHT SATURDAY TO POST !
6.) Picks will be PM'ed to me at any point prior to 11:59p.m. Saturday, all picks will be openly posted by me between midnight Sunday and kick-off.
To: Mission146
Date Sent: October 18, 2014 10:01 pm
This message was first read by the recipient on Sunday, October 19th, 2014 at 9:38:46 PM (Pacific Time)
Cincinnati +3
Tennessee +5.5
Miami +3
Jacksonville +5.5
Saint Louis +7
Quote: Buzzard6.) Picks will be PM'ed to me at any point prior to 11:59p.m. Saturday, all picks will be openly posted by me between midnight Sunday and kick-off.
You conveniently left off this part: "may be picked at any time prior to 11:59p.m. EST the Saturday before the game."
Quote: sodawaterYou conveniently left off this part: "may be picked at any time prior to 11:59p.m. EST the Saturday before the game."
Technically he did get them in before 11:59 pm Eastern Standard Time.
Quote: mipletTechnically he did get them in before 11:59 pm Eastern Standard Time.
haha, I noticed that too. It would still be 1 minute late as Buzzard's PM is stamped 10:01 PDT which would be 12:01 AM EST :)
Now that I am in the running with a high percentage, very interested in bye weeks since I have not taken one yet.
The way I look at it, bye weeks are an advantage if you have a high percentage because the odds are hitting 50 per cent which would lower my luckily high percentage.
I have no confidence in my picks, I am where I am at with a high percentage due to sheer luck of spending 5 min every sat nite picking as a fan. No serious evaluations, just picking for fun.
Can I take 1 or 2?
Quote: terapinedWhat are exactly the rules on bye weeks. 1 or 2
Can I take 1 or 2?
This season you are allowed up to two (2) optional bye weeks.
Good luck to the NON-CRYBABIES.
Go whine to the admin if you think my name should be in RED..................LOSERS
I respect Soda's and Aycarumba's stance on sticking to the rules. I really really do. I'm a stickler for rules myself. If you don't believe, ask any member of my family or some of my poker buddies. You wouldn't believe some of the arguments we've had. Or ask my next chess opponent who touches a piece and then chooses not to move it.
However, Mission made a ruling and accepted Buzzard' picks (and with it the 4-1 record. Nice job) and I accept that. He's the host.
If I thought for a minute that Buzzard posted his picks late specifically because he wanted to look at everyone else's picks first and benefit from them, I'd be here protesting too.
If it was much later in the season, I also might be protesting. As it is, we are not even at the halfway point yet.
I do have the opposite feeling about Soda's comment: "This contest shouldn't represent serious money to anyone involved. That's all the more reason to follow the rules strictly." To me, if there WERE serious money involved, THEN that would be all the more reason to follow the rules strictly. As it is, we have a little forum contest between members to help make the NFL season more fun, a contest that shouldn't represent any serious money to anyone, and thus the rules can be more relaxed. (We already modified the one optional bye week to two, after Week 2 or 3 or whatever it was.)
I don't think it's fair to Buzzard that he can keep his 4-1 record but only under the condition that he keep it if he doesn't win. I think he should be able to keep with no restrictions and if he wins, then he wins.
And no, just because Buzzard posted late doesn't mean that anyone else can for any future week. It will Mission's call again and he could say yes or no.
If you don't like his rulings, you don't have to participate in his game.
I myself still plan on winning this thing. After I go 6-0 the next three weekends, I'm right back in it. :)
Quote: EdCollins
I do have the opposite feeling about Soda's comment: "This contest shouldn't represent serious money to anyone involved. That's all the more reason to follow the rules strictly." To me, if there WERE serious money involved, THEN that would be all the more reason to follow the rules strictly. As it is, we have a little forum contest between members to help make the NFL season more fun, a contest that shouldn't represent any serious money to anyone, and thus the rules can be more relaxed.
Yeah, I believe the exact opposite. Sounds like Buzzard had a busy week. I also do not believe he was trying to gain any kind of unfair advantage. But my point is that the stakes are so small, it's silly to make accommodations.
If it were for real money, I would be all for making exceptions due to personal reasons, as life happens.
Quote: BuzzardBut I still think my picks were in on time per the rules ! PERIOD
You should read the rules, then. The rules say the picks are due the Saturday before the games, 11:59 pm eastern time.
Picks will be PM'ed to me at any point prior to 11:59p.m. Saturday, all picks will be openly posted by me between midnight Sunday and kick-off.
NO EST ON THE SUBMISSION PROCESS.
JUST SUPPOSED TO BE A FRIENDLY BET, NOT A COURSE IN CONTRACT LAW !
seen Felix Unger lately ? ? ? ?
He says you can borrow his hat if anything happens to yours.
Quote: BuzzardOH MY ERROR I CAN NOT READ EVIDENTLY
Evidently.
Figured I had time and sent in my picks.
In a contract if two clauses contradict each other, it is held against whoever drew the contract up. That was not me.
My only law experience was usually as the defendant, but I think that is right.
This was a friendly contest before all this SHIT.
You do own a hat, don't you ?
Quote: BuzzardOk Now this is what happened. Lots of BAD things going on, saw PM , looked at rules saw item 86that said 11:59 PM. No EST
Figured I had time and sent in my picks.
In a contract if two clauses contradict each other, it is held against whoever drew the contract up. That was not me.
My only law experience was usually as the defendant, but I think that is right.
This was a friendly contest before all this SHIT.
You do own a hat, don't you ?
I am sorry about the bad things going on in your life. This contest is inconsequential in the bigger picture. Hope things get better for you.
Quote: EdCollinsHi Gang,
I respect Soda's and Aycarumba's stance on sticking to the rules. I really really do. I'm a stickler for rules myself. If you don't believe, ask any member of my family or some of my poker buddies. You wouldn't believe some of the arguments we've had. Or ask my next chess opponent who touches a piece and then chooses not to move it.
However, Mission made a ruling and accepted Buzzard' picks (and with it the 4-1 record. Nice job) and I accept that. He's the host.
If I thought for a minute that Buzzard posted his picks late specifically because he wanted to look at everyone else's picks first and benefit from them, I'd be here protesting too.
If it was much later in the season, I also might be protesting. As it is, we are not even at the halfway point yet.
I do have the opposite feeling about Soda's comment: "This contest shouldn't represent serious money to anyone involved. That's all the more reason to follow the rules strictly." To me, if there WERE serious money involved, THEN that would be all the more reason to follow the rules strictly. As it is, we have a little forum contest between members to help make the NFL season more fun, a contest that shouldn't represent any serious money to anyone, and thus the rules can be more relaxed. (We already modified the one optional bye week to two, after Week 2 or 3 or whatever it was.)
I don't think it's fair to Buzzard that he can keep his 4-1 record but only under the condition that he keep it if he doesn't win. I think he should be able to keep with no restrictions and if he wins, then he wins.
And no, just because Buzzard posted late doesn't mean that anyone else can for any future week. It will Mission's call again and he could say yes or no.
If you don't like his rulings, you don't have to participate in his game.
I myself still plan on winning this thing. After I go 6-0 the next three weekends, I'm right back in it. :)
Thanks, Ed!
Okay, I'm sticking with my ruling about Buzzard drops the 4-1 Week if he wins and we'll see if he's still the winner after that.
If anyone other than Buzzard wins and contests that he should have four wins removed from his record and four losses added to his record, then I will add the difference in monies owed to the $25 that I am throwing into the contest.
To that point, I want to emphasize that the Rule for timely submission of Picks exists, as written, for two reasons:
1.) This Rule did not originally exist:
From the original thread, back in 2012:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/11200-wov-picks-game-bet/#post178708
Quote:6.) Picks will be PM'ed to me at any point prior to Sunday kick-off. The exception to this Rule is that I will respond to all who make picks with one of my E-Mail addresses the first time he or she makes a pick. E-Mailing your pick is ONLY acceptable if you are banned from WoV at the time the pick is made. You MUST include your WoV handle in the E-Mail subject which MUST be formatted as follows (Handle-WoV Picks).
Anyway, we only modified the Rule because people were interested in being able to, "Follow the action," of what was going on with everyone's Picks in real time rather than having an announcement on Tuesday with the weekly results.
Thus, I had to Pick a time which balanced people having an adequate amount of time to submit their Picks (That's why the Lines are posted on Thursday rather than the originally planned Friday) and also to give me a reasonable window to post the Picks prior to game time.
2.) Game Integrity:
I think the real question here is whether or not the integrity of the game is compromised with Buzzard's late Picks and I argue that it is not. As EdCollins mentioned, if I had even the faintest question in my mind that Buzzard wanted to use the posted Picks in order to make a decision about his own Picks, he'd take an 0-5 week and I'd not allow the Picks. In this case, it's Week 7, so I'm not even convinced there is any advantage in seeing everyone else's Picks ahead of time, at least, not in terms of, "Betting the opposite," or anything like that.
Further, nothing about his Picks suggests that he played a strong strategy relative to our leader, The Wizard. In my opinion, the Optimal Strategy would be to take the opposite of Wizard's Picks in an effort to close the gap, and the second strongest strategy would be to mimic Wizard's Picks hoping to log a strong week.
Anyway, I tend to allow late Picks as long as I have not yet posted the Picks, but even though I already posted the Picks, in this case, I don't think Buzzard used that in any way to his advantage. I'd probably be more strict with something like this in the later weeks of the season.
Ace will be seeking a court order to stay this contest. Also a subpena is being drafted for ZUGA.
of Logical Thinking
Docket # 60324
BUZZARD vs WHINERS & LOSERS & CRY BABIES
It is the ruling of this court that Ed Collins is the Voice of Reason. Furthermore Mission 146 has been
found innocent all charges except being a NICE guy under trying circumstances. It is further noted that
had Buzzard gone 1-4, there would have been no objections.
But now the court must rule in the matter before. This court recognized that Buzzard may indeed be a
great handicapper, but Zuga has always insisted that we rule in the best interest of all forum members.
In doing so, this is our ruling :
Buzzard will withdraw immediately from this thread, and block it as well. Since he currently owes $18.81
to Mike as of today's standing, he must render payment after week 16 to the current leader. The court has
a heavy heart in posting it's unanimous decision, but is doing so in the best interest of whiners, losers , and
cry babies ( You know who you are ) on this forum. Especially if such mentioned members own a hat !
Chief Justice Joseph Force Crater
Post Script from the Clerk of the Court :
Any and all appeals will only be honored if hand delivered to Chief Justice Crater.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Beginning this Week, Picks made AFTER the deadline AND after the Picks have been posted will be deemed void resulting in either A.) A Skip Week or B.) The repercussions of missing three weeks pursuant to the Rules if both Skip Weeks have already been used.
Thank you for your kind attention, and:
The Week 8 LINES have been posted:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/19451-wov-picks-game-2014-official-thread/2/#post405918
Quote: Mission146Greetings!
IMPORTANT NOTE: Beginning this Week, Picks made AFTER the deadline AND after the Picks have been posted will be deemed void resulting in either A.) A Skip Week or B.) The repercussions of missing three weeks pursuant to the Rules if both Skip Weeks have already been used.
Thank you for your kind attention, and:
The Week 8 LINES have been posted:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/19451-wov-picks-game-2014-official-thread/2/#post405918
Lol, I thought that was beginning week 1.
Quote: sodawaterLol, I thought that was beginning week 1.
Don't go stirring the pot, making it call the kettle black.
No PM requesting same from Mission . Zuga must be proud of him.
Just kidding Mission
The Week 8 Picks have been posted:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/19451-wov-picks-game-2014-official-thread/2/#post406285
(I wanted you to keep playing, Buzzard, but you're not a man to be questioned once you've made a decision.)
THANKS I needed that !
4-2: Steeldco, Johnzimbo
3-2: Wizard, Paradigm, 10DollarBri
3-3: Wudged, Ten2Win, Aluisio
2-3: JW17, JML24
2-4: Vendman1, TGarrettCPA, Sodawater, Miplet, EdCollins, Beardgoat, Beachbumbabs, AyeCarumba
1-4: YouCanBetOnThat, RDW4Potus, Mission146, Genwyzgy
1-5: StrictlyAP, MWalz9, GWAE
0-5: Terapined
Regular Picks: 49-65
Confidence Picks: 2-14 (Ouch)
Current Standings:
| Name | Wins | Losses | % | Owes |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wizard | 30 | 10 | 75.00% | - |
| VCUSkyhawk | 16 | 8 | 66.67% | $8.33 |
| Steeldco | 23 | 13 | 63.89% | $11.11 |
| Wudged | 28 | 19 | 59.57% | $15.43 |
| Buzzard | 14 | 10 | 58.33% | $16.67 |
| SodaWater | 24 | 18 | 57.14% | $17.86 |
| Terapined | 22 | 17 | 56.41% | $18.59 |
| JohnZimbo | 23 | 19 | 54.76% | $20.24 |
| YouCanBetOnThat | 19 | 16 | 54.29% | $20.71 |
| 10DollarBri | 23 | 20 | 53.49% | $21.51 |
| RDW4Potus | 21 | 19 | 52.50% | $22.50 |
| Aluisio | 24 | 22 | 52.17% | $22.83 |
| Paradigm | 19 | 18 | 51.35% | $23.65 |
| StrictlyAP | 24 | 23 | 51.06% | $23.94 |
| Genwyzgy | 19 | 19 | 50.00% | $25.00 |
| Miplet | 21 | 21 | 50.00% | $25.00 |
| AyeCarumba | 22 | 23 | 48.89% | $26.11 |
| MWalz9 | 21 | 22 | 48.84% | $26.16 |
| KMUMF | 17 | 18 | 48.57% | $26.43 |
| JW17 | 19 | 21 | 47.50% | $27.50 |
| Mission146 | 17 | 19 | 47.22% | $25.00 |
| EdCollins | 20 | 23 | 46.51% | $28.49 |
| TGarrettCPA | 22 | 26 | 45.83% | $29.17 |
| Beardgoat | 19 | 23 | 45.24% | $29.76 |
| Malaru | 17 | 22 | 43.59% | $31.41 |
| Ten2Win | 18 | 24 | 42.86% | $32.14 |
| JML24 | 18 | 26 | 40.91% | $34.09 |
| Vendman1 | 15 | 24 | 38.46% | $36.54 |
| BeachBumBabs | 17 | 29 | 36.96% | $38.04 |
| GWAE | 13 | 27 | 32.50% | $42.50 |
| Totals | 605 | 599 | 50.25% | $726.70 |
Quote: AyecarumbaWe need to hire a Cooler to stand next to the Wizard. 75%! Our only hope is that he misses a third week and DQ' s...
For those of us in Midwest's contest, we need to hope that you get hit by a bus.
:)
Bbb you are no match for me.
Quote: EdCollinsFor those of us in Midwest's contest, we need to hope that you get hit by a bus.
:)
hehe... I'm looking both ways before crossing.
Regarding the, "forfeit" escape clause, the rules say you must use it, "prior to Week 10", but when is the exact deadline to declare, "No Mas!"?
For a while there, right up there in the stratosphere with the Wiz.
Now back among the teeming masses in just above 500 land :-)
Quote: Ayecarumbahehe... I'm looking both ways before crossing.
As it happens, for me, Aye, and wudged in the Handicrapper, we're the only 3 who've passed the 50 game threshold, so if Aye got called to Glory tomorrow, we'd owe it to the estate. Laggards! lol...
