Poll

2 votes (15.38%)
3 votes (23.07%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (15.38%)
No votes (0%)
6 votes (46.15%)
No votes (0%)
4 votes (30.76%)
3 votes (23.07%)
2 votes (15.38%)

13 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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May 26th, 2023 at 12:12:41 PM permalink


I haven't covered a variable-state slot machine for a while. The next one I'll share is Star Goddess. This one is like Scarab in that positions on the screen in a frame will eventually become wild. If the previous player left enough of them on the screen, preferably in the first three reels, the odds swing to the player's favor. Unlike Scarab, in Star Goddess, those positions with a frame become wild on a random basis.

Here is my initial vulturing strategy. Play if any of the following are true:

  • Three frames in the first three reels.
  • Five frames in the first four reels.
  • Seven frames in the first five reels.


Please see my preliminary page on Star Goddess at Wizard of Odds.

As always, I welcome all comments.

The question for the poll is what do you think about my strategy?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
DogHand
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May 26th, 2023 at 4:07:57 PM permalink
Wiz,

In the first line of your page you call the game Scarab.

Dog Hand
Wizard
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May 26th, 2023 at 6:20:06 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

Wiz,

In the first line of your page you call the game Scarab.

Dog Hand
link to original post



Thanks -- corrected. It does share the same feature with Scarab of a frame around certain positions, that will eventually convert to wilds. In either game, if you have enough of them, then play.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
100xOdds
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Sulfur5989
May 27th, 2023 at 5:38:59 AM permalink
How about doing Wolf Run Eclipse next? (and it's sequel, Fortune Owl)



Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Sulfur5989
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June 1st, 2023 at 6:42:46 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard



I haven't covered a variable-state slot machine for a while. The next one I'll share is Star Goddess. This one is like Scarab in that positions on the screen in a frame will eventually become wild. If the previous player left enough of them on the screen, preferably in the first three reels, the odds swing to the player's favor. Unlike Scarab, in Star Goddess, those positions with a frame become wild on a random basis.

Here is my initial vulturing strategy. Play if any of the following are true:

  • Three frames in the first three reels.
  • Five frames in the first four reels.
  • Seven frames in the first five reels.


Please see my preliminary page on Star Goddess at Wizard of Odds.

As always, I welcome all comments.

The question for the poll is what do you think about my strategy?
link to original post



From my experience with this game, column 3 is the most valuable since when the wild explosion occur it seem to affect surrounding area as well. Would have to film and watch in slow motion to confirm
100xOdds
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June 26th, 2023 at 8:15:33 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

How about doing Wolf Run Eclipse next? (and it's sequel, Fortune Owl)




link to original post

My casino removed Wolf run Eclipse so no need to do that. :)
(Weird that it got removed so soon since it was getting lots of play)

But still hoping for Fortune Owl...
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
DWizard7
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June 4th, 2024 at 5:13:14 PM permalink
Y'all acting like the vastly superior Cats version doesn't exist lol.
100xOdds
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June 4th, 2024 at 11:35:41 PM permalink
Quote: DWizard7

Y'all acting like the vastly superior Cats version doesn't exist lol.
link to original post


Why is it better if both are set to same 85%?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
darkoz
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June 5th, 2024 at 12:41:59 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: DWizard7

Y'all acting like the vastly superior Cats version doesn't exist lol.
link to original post


Why is it better if both are set to same 85%?
link to original post



The advantage play.

Take Scarab for instance (or even ultimate X poker). The vultures only play such that their money isn't exposed meaningfully to the machines overall edge.
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Nathan
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June 5th, 2024 at 2:54:08 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: DWizard7

Y'all acting like the vastly superior Cats version doesn't exist lol.
link to original post


Why is it better if both are set to same 85%?
link to original post



Because CATS (The official spelling of the Slot, not me "Screaming," 😉😏 has the double symbol feature AND has one of the highest paying top symbols. Five CATS symbols in a row is worth $100. In comparison, five American Original symbols in the American Original slot is only worth $20 and five wolf/moon in original Wild Wolf and Wolf Run is only worth $10. Stinking Rich to the best of my knowledge is the only other game with a $100 top symbols. The older rich lady is worth $100. As I write this post, I JUST remembered that actually, Queen Of The Nile actually has the best top symbol of all slots. All five Cleopatra symbols in the Bonus Round is worth $450 because she multiplies herself/the payout like 15 times. 😀 I personally ALMOST won $450 on a penny bet, but Cleopatra didn't come up five times in a row. She came up about three times, but she had two Ramses accompanying her, so Cleopatra was Ramses wilds and paid out as Ramses being multiplied 15 times, so, I got paid $90 on a literal penny bet, 9,000 times my bet 😀 My best payout by bet size ever. 😀 If only it was five Cleopatra in a row, I would have won $450 on a penny bet, or 45,000 times my bet! 😀
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
Mental
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June 5th, 2024 at 3:36:27 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: DogHand

Wiz,

In the first line of your page you call the game Scarab.

Dog Hand
link to original post



Thanks -- corrected. It does share the same feature with Scarab of a frame around certain positions, that will eventually convert to wilds. In either game, if you have enough of them, then play.
link to original post

If the RTP of the Scarab game is set high enough, my threshold for playing is zero scarab frames, but only for game #1 of 10 games.

The online version of Scarab was modified years ago to start out at game #2 with zero frames locked.

On my last cruise, I had the Wolf Run Mini and Minor both above 40 free games at the same time. I lost $1500 on the play.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
DWizard7
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June 5th, 2024 at 9:15:01 AM permalink
When they put in all new Game King (I think technically Game King X on paper?) machines at my casino a few months ago, all the Scarabs were set to 2 out of 10 at every denom with zero scarabs in play. So in theory, that's the dead-even odds state?
CzarChasm
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June 5th, 2024 at 9:21:15 AM permalink
I just watched a guy chase the mini from 31 to 66 before it finally hit.
Mental
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June 5th, 2024 at 9:45:25 AM permalink
Quote: DWizard7

When they put in all new Game King (I think technically Game King X on paper?) machines at my casino a few months ago, all the Scarabs were set to 2 out of 10 at every denom with zero scarabs in play. So in theory, that's the dead-even odds state?
link to original post

This is a reasonable conjecture, but it is impossible to confirm without an accurate model of the reels. IGT has that model and they probably did the full Markov chain before they decided to change the starting state. Scarab and GE don't have independent reels, so one would need to understand the correlation of symbol frequencies across reels quite well to model the Markov chain and develop a good strategy.
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Nathan
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June 5th, 2024 at 10:06:58 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Quote: Wizard

Quote: DogHand

Wiz,

In the first line of your page you call the game Scarab.

Dog Hand
link to original post



Thanks -- corrected. It does share the same feature with Scarab of a frame around certain positions, that will eventually convert to wilds. In either game, if you have enough of them, then play.
link to original post

If the RTP of the Scarab game is set high enough, my threshold for playing is zero scarab frames, but only for game #1 of 10 games.

The online version of Scarab was modified years ago to start out at game #2 with zero frames locked.

On my last cruise, I had the Wolf Run Mini and Minor both above 40 free games at the same time. I lost $1500 on the play.
link to original post



At FIRST, I read it as,"I won $1,500 on the play and I thought, $A $1,500 win is decent, but not REALLY big money," and then I saw that you actually LOST $1,500, and DIDN'T win it. YIKES! 🥶😱😳😵‍💫😫
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
RideTheEdge
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June 5th, 2024 at 10:17:31 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

...Scarab and GE don't have independent reels...
link to original post



How do you determine that the wheels are not independent?
Mental
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Mooseton
June 5th, 2024 at 10:49:53 AM permalink
Quote: Nathan

Quote: Mental


On my last cruise, I had the Wolf Run Mini and Minor both above 40 free games at the same time. I lost $1500 on the play.
link to original post



At FIRST, I read it as,"I won $1,500 on the play and I thought, $A $1,500 win is decent, but not REALLY big money," and then I saw that you actually LOST $1,500, and DIDN'T win it. YIKES! 🥶😱😳😵‍💫😫
link to original post


In fact, I did hit both progressives before I left the game. I was stuck over $2000 before the Minor triggered in the low 40s, and then I stayed until the Mini triggered in the low 50s.

I also played CATS, but I have no idea whether the free games are worth more due to the possibility of double cats.
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Mental
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RideTheEdge
June 5th, 2024 at 11:13:03 AM permalink
Quote: RideTheEdge

Quote: Mental

...Scarab and GE don't have independent reels...
link to original post



How do you determine that the wheels are not independent?
link to original post


The rules mention symbol stacking:
Quote: Scarab Game Rules

Synchronised Reels Feature
Each reel in Scarab includes large stacks of the same symbol.

Before each spin, a reel set with one of the stacked symbols is randomly selected.

Any symbol may appear in any stack, except the Pyramid scatter symbol.

The same symbol may appear in large stacks on multiple reels on the same spin.


The Game Rules don't tell you enough to create a model of the reels.

You have to observe the game in action to see that the stacked symbols are correlated across reels. If you get a stack of two, three, or four symbols, any later stacks are almost always the same symbol. I did a little test just now. I observed 9 spins where I had a stack on more than one reel. Only the last spin had two different types of symbols stacked (two K, four K, three A). In the other 8 spins, the stacked symbols always matched.

You also need data to prove that the lower value symbols are more likely to stack than the high-value reels.

Without a good model of the stacks, you cannot know what a pattern of frames is worth. If there were no stacks, the Scarab game would seldom pay much. Most of the base game hits are from side by side stacks. The stacks also help boost the value of the 10th game.
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camapl
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June 11th, 2024 at 11:11:21 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

If the RTP of the Scarab game is set high enough, my threshold for playing is zero scarab frames, but only for game #1 of 10 games.

The online version of Scarab was modified years ago to start out at game #2 with zero frames locked.

On my last cruise, I had the Wolf Run Mini and Minor both above 40 free games at the same time. I lost $1500 on the play.
link to original post



Hey, Mental! Just to clarify, when you see a Scarab game showing 10/10 in the lower right, you spin it off to see if it improves on the first spin of a new cycle? Under what conditions do you continue? Thanks in advance!
Expectation is the root of all heartache.
Mental
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June 11th, 2024 at 3:11:56 PM permalink
Quote: camapl

Quote: Mental

If the RTP of the Scarab game is set high enough, my threshold for playing is zero scarab frames, but only for game #1 of 10 games.

The online version of Scarab was modified years ago to start out at game #2 with zero frames locked.

On my last cruise, I had the Wolf Run Mini and Minor both above 40 free games at the same time. I lost $1500 on the play.
link to original post



Hey, Mental! Just to clarify, when you see a Scarab game showing 10/10 in the lower right, you spin it off to see if it improves on the first spin of a new cycle? Under what conditions do you continue? Thanks in advance!
link to original post

I can't give you a simple number because each cell in the 4x5 grid is worth a different value. However, two Scarabs on the first spin is usually good enough, and one Scarab in the first three columns is a go. The two rows in the middle are better, and the center column is the best column. It is the hardest column to land Scarabs and the least likely to be duplicated later.

If I have a borderline case for the second spin, I am quitting if I get no more Scarabs. My rules were based on a Markov chain model and are very complicated. If I had to write a very simple set of rules, I need at least as many Scarabs as spins until game #6 where I am usually committed if I have five locked Scarabs. But connections between the Scarabs and which row they are in makes a difference. I did this work 7 or 8 years ago and I don't play Scarab any more.

I will not play Scarab this way on a penny game where the RTP is likely to be below 90%. Scarab has a 95% RTP online. Sadly, the new version starts at game #2. Also, there is no vulturing possible online. I have played Scarab online at $750 a spin. When I checked Scarab on one site today, they had set the min and max bet to 75 cents. Yikes! I am also seeing other good online games being throttled by reducing the max denom. It is spreading like a plague this year. Possibly, I am a victim of my own success.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
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