Rich Little Piggies
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20 members have voted
Our next look at slots that are sometimes in a positive state is Rich Little Piggies (RLP). This is a popular and I think fairly new, so should be a valuable asset in the advantage player's bag of tricks.
I have already written up the rules and placed the rule screens on a new page at Wizard of Odds. Shortly, I'll be adding information on when the play is in a positive state.
There are two versions of the game -- Hog Wild and Meal Ticket.
In both versions, there are three different bonuses, one for each color pig. As the player plays, he sometimes gets coins. These coins can trigger the bonus, increase a meter associated with that bonus, or do nothing. If these meters get large enough, then the game can have a player advantage.
I believe the triggers on when to play are different between the two versions.
The meters associated with each bonus correlated to the fatness of the pig of that color. So, unlike Racin' Bacon, the size of the pigs does matter.
My question for now is what are your thoughts on when RLP is in a positive state?
The question for the poll is which statements do you agree with (multiple votes allowed)?
Quote: 100xOddsWhat happened to USpapergames?
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I don't know. I hope he's doing well, but he is not welcome back here.
To boil it down, a simple and conservative strategy is to play with 18 free spins or more.
Thx!Quote: WizardBased on discussion with a non-forum member, it seems the Blue meter of free games is the key element to this game. I think it happens a lot that all three bonuses are hit at the same time. Remember, when that happens, the number of free spins is that of the Blue pig.
To boil it down, a simple and conservative strategy is to play with 18 free spins or more.
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Can you add 'Big 5 Safari' to your list?
link?Quote: linksjunkieDo you folks think pigs is better than pot game with sparklers?
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pic?
Kinda like years ago when Mission mentioned something along the line of “vegetables vs the undead” for a now well know AP game.
Fairly sure you’ve seen the game I’m alluding to.
explain?Quote: linksjunkieOriginal version of game was not a play. Newest version is.
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A rule of thumb - when trying to determine if a game may be vulturable. If you cycle thru the denominations and the “bonus state” does not appear to change - then the game is probably not a play.
Good luck.
Quote: WizardIs it true that the fatness of the Blue pig is associated with the number of free games?
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I believe so. The two different versions the pigs have different rewards if I remember correctly.
This is a Ploppy game disguised as an AP.
Even with a huge number of free games you can get ridiculous low pays. I had maybe 40 spins I think and won maybe $25 at max bet. Lots of zero wins, even some wins worth fifty cents.
To be profitable you need AT LEAST two simultaneous pigs to burst. I did okay when that happened. Unfortunately it's rare. And I never saw all three burst together.
The bursting is independent (compared to say Golden Jungle where the different columns are all in sync).
You often have all three pigs grossly fat, playing for a long while and they still won't pop but they seem so close and then bam, only one pops and you wind up with a crappy bonus.
Worse, the other pigs are still fat so you feel compelled to avoid giving that to a vulture, you keep going and bam a second fat pig bursts and you get another crappy win that doesn't bring you above your investment.
By the time you burst that third pig, you lost too much to recoup and now the first pig you burst is fat again.
Welcome to a nasty Ploppy cycle.
For these plays to be truly AP, in my honest opinion, they need to be more than a Vulture game. They need to give the player a control over the +ev state as in Golden Jungle where the tenth spin puts the control over the positive state into the hands of the AP. Where the AP understands the final destination so to speak.
You can bet up to $45 a spin on this game so imagine being into it for 200-300 bets and then the pigs triggering one at a time.
So you are investing a large amount of money but a reasonable payoff will only come if you trigger multiple pigs at the same time.
Interestedly enough in my admittedly limited experience with this game it seems like in lower RTP markets pigs tend to trigger 1 at a time, but in higher RTP markets you seem to trigger multiples more often,
Makes me wonder if the frequency of the pigs being triggered is how the RTP is controlled.
Ploppies probably make the mistake of putting too much stock in the yellow and red pigs.
100?!Quote: rsactuaryLady Luck HQ has a few videos on this machine. Her most recent, she got 100 free spins and it was incredibly disappointing. Bricks hand after hand after hand.
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she much have lost a bundle since free games start at 9
Quote: 100xOdds100?!Quote: rsactuaryLady Luck HQ has a few videos on this machine. Her most recent, she got 100 free spins and it was incredibly disappointing. Bricks hand after hand after hand.
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she much have lost a bundle since free games start at 9
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She probably found it at a higher number. Maybe 64 or something like that.
is that for the hitting the blue pig?Quote: rsactuaryMy apologies all. 100 wilds added to the reels. So sorry.
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Quote: 100xOddsis that for the hitting the blue pig?Quote: rsactuaryMy apologies all. 100 wilds added to the reels. So sorry.
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No the red one. sorry, I was just way off base here from the beginning. My apologies for sidetracking the conversation.
I took it earlier than wiz recommendation because that's the highest I've seen abandoned blue pig in my casino.
And I got lucky hitting quickly and all 3!
Result:
No idea if that's a good return for 15 games with all 3 pigs
assuming a 90% game?Quote: WizardBased on discussion with a non-forum member, it seems the Blue meter of free games is the key element to this game. I think it happens a lot that all three bonuses are hit at the same time. Remember, when that happens, the number of free spins is that of the Blue pig.
To boil it down, a simple and conservative strategy is to play with 18 free spins or more.
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Quote: McSweeney^ I have been playing Big 5 Safari and its sister game, Pyramid Progressives, for 5 months now in an attempt to gain an advantage. I have been unsuccessful at turning a profit so far, despite the fact I only play when the jackpots are way more inflated than usual (I refuse to touch the game if the lowest jackpot is any lower than $45.00 at the 75 cent bet level, and this only happens about once every few weeks). If it's possible to gain an advantage, the window of opportunity is so tiny and the reward potential is so low that it's honestly not even worth it.
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$45 is 2.25x reset.
Never thought it's ok to take it that early?
2x reset for the rest of the animals too?
So far I've lost $1,360.91 at the game with a sample size of 5,751 spins (though various betting levels, not always the minimum). Have I gotten unlucky? Maybe, but even if I were to trigger 2 Lions (which is nearly impossible) at minimum bet I'd still be down! That's a bad sign and why I seriously doubt the advantage potential of this game at all.
If someone wants to thread split this into its own thread (Big 5 Safari and Pyramid Progressives) I'm all for it.
Buffalo: 338
Rhino: 959
Cheetah: 1,438
Elephant: ??? (never triggered)
Lion: ??? (never triggered)
I think it's possible to factually extrapolate how many spins it takes on average to trigger a jackpot by finding out at which point each jackpot starts glowing. Because I think it starts glowing once it is inflated past its average hit point.
Quote: 100xOdds
I took it earlier than wiz recommendation because that's the highest I've seen abandoned blue pig in my casino.
And I got lucky hitting quickly and all 3!
Result:
No idea if that's a good return for 15 games with all 3 pigs
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Hit all 3 pigs.
Won $400.
Would have thought paid more because red pig
Quote: McSweeneyAlso, I can share with you my data of how many spins it takes, on average, to trigger each jackpot according to said 5,751 spin sample size:
Buffalo: 338
Rhino: 959
Cheetah: 1,438
Elephant: ??? (never triggered)
Lion: ??? (never triggered)
I think it's possible to factually extrapolate how many spins it takes on average to trigger a jackpot by finding out at which point each jackpot starts glowing. Because I think it starts glowing once it is inflated past its average hit point.
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$3.75 Lion almost 2x reset.
To bad nothing to go along with it for me to take a shot.
(Rhino not even close to 2x reset)
Quote: McSweeneyAlso, I can share with you my data of how many spins it takes, on average, to trigger each jackpot according to said 5,751 spin sample size:
Buffalo: 338
Rhino: 959
Cheetah: 1,438
Elephant: ??? (never triggered)
Lion: ??? (never triggered)
I think it's possible to factually extrapolate how many spins it takes on average to trigger a jackpot by finding out at which point each jackpot starts glowing. Because I think it starts glowing once it is inflated past its average hit point.
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$2.25 Buffalo at 2.2x
Result:
Missed the 1st time I had blackout buffalos.
Got it the 2nd time for about $100 profit.
Surprised I got it within 5min of sitting down
Max Red pig and it didnt do much.
i dont think i had that many 5 Oaks.
and if i did, it was like a single line.
i've had better lines with a naked Red pig at reset. (7 Free games with only the red pig and only the 10 crossed out)
Quote: McSweeney^ I have been playing Big 5 Safari and its sister game, Pyramid Progressives, for 5 months now in an attempt to gain an advantage. I have been unsuccessful at turning a profit so far, despite the fact I only play when the jackpots are way more inflated than usual (I refuse to touch the game if the lowest jackpot is any lower than $45.00 at the 75 cent bet level, and this only happens about once every few weeks). If it's possible to gain an advantage, the window of opportunity is so tiny and the reward potential is so low that it's honestly not even worth it.
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You should wait a little longer if the second jackpot (L2) is near reset. It is twice as hard to hit, but often pays more than twice as much. You have to factor in the current L2 level into your threshold or you will rarely find L1s that are actually +EV. You will take down L2 about half the time you attack L1, so it really matters where L2 is. You only hit an L3 about once in 10 tries, so L3 matters a lot less.
found a L3 @ $825 (2.2 x 3.75 bet level)Quote: MentalQuote: McSweeney^ I have been playing Big 5 Safari and its sister game, Pyramid Progressives, for 5 months now in an attempt to gain an advantage. I have been unsuccessful at turning a profit so far, despite the fact I only play when the jackpots are way more inflated than usual (I refuse to touch the game if the lowest jackpot is any lower than $45.00 at the 75 cent bet level, and this only happens about once every few weeks). If it's possible to gain an advantage, the window of opportunity is so tiny and the reward potential is so low that it's honestly not even worth it.
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You should wait a little longer if the second jackpot (L2) is near reset. It is twice as hard to hit, but often pays more than twice as much. You have to factor in the current L2 level into your threshold or you will rarely find L1s that are actually +EV. You will take down L2 about half the time you attack L1, so it really matters where L2 is. You only hit an L3 about once in 10 tries, so L3 matters a lot less.
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5th spin hit L1 for near reset.
I quit.
I still lost $ with blue and maxed out red pig (both no poker symbols and 100 wilds versions).
Quote: MentalQuote: McSweeney^ I have been playing Big 5 Safari and its sister game, Pyramid Progressives, for 5 months now in an attempt to gain an advantage. I have been unsuccessful at turning a profit so far, despite the fact I only play when the jackpots are way more inflated than usual (I refuse to touch the game if the lowest jackpot is any lower than $45.00 at the 75 cent bet level, and this only happens about once every few weeks). If it's possible to gain an advantage, the window of opportunity is so tiny and the reward potential is so low that it's honestly not even worth it.
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You should wait a little longer if the second jackpot (L2) is near reset. It is twice as hard to hit, but often pays more than twice as much. You have to factor in the current L2 level into your threshold or you will rarely find L1s that are actually +EV. You will take down L2 about half the time you attack L1, so it really matters where L2 is. You only hit an L3 about once in 10 tries, so L3 matters a lot less.
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Got it for $400 profit.
This was the 3rd cheetah full screen I got and it was all within 5min of each other.
On another note, this same machine at $2.25 denom had L2 at $310 (2.05x).
It ate a $100 quick and didn't get even 1 full screen of anything.
Abandoned it to try the cheetah @3.75 denom
Speaking of getting cocky...Quote: McSweeneyI also was up on Big 5 Safari/Pyramid Progressives after my first 500 spins or so.
I got cocky and started playing when Buffalo was like $40.00 at minimum bet (or higher bet equivalent).
The house edge caught up to me and now I am deeply in the negative and will not touch the game again unless Buffalo and/or Rhino are extremely high.
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Chasing $3.75 yellow:
Lost $100 then hit this:
Lost another $300 before i quit.
Probably should have quit when i hit it instead of being cocky/overconfident in getting yellow soon.
in all that time, never got a blackout screen of any animal for even a chance at a progressive.
Chasing Green @ $2.25 (2.15x):Quote: McSweeneyThat was negative EV in my view. I also was up on Big 5 Safari/Pyramid Progressives after my first 500 spins or so. I got cocky and started playing when Buffalo was like $40.00 at minimum bet (or higher bet equivalent). The house edge caught up to me and now I am deeply in the negative and will not touch the game again unless Buffalo and/or Rhino are extremely high.
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When this popped up telling me to switch to max bet for the Panther progressive (1.3x):
So i switched to it and got this a few spins later:
Won $328 so i cashed out for ~$100 profit.
1a) What was that pop up?
1b) is it +EV to switch when i get it?
Or just a come on to increase my bet (and loses)?
2) After i hit the baby cheetah progressive with 5x, should i still play till i hit the Panthers like the pop up suggested?
Or was leaving the right move?
Heck, or go back to $2.25 to chase Green again???
i screwed up..
baby cheetah $52/40 = 1.3
panther = reset
adult cheetah $316/150 = 2.11
originally thought baby cheetah was 52/20 = 2.6 (as in .75 bet level).. oops.
so i thought i had a double... nope.
but i got LUCKY!
Quote: VegasriderI played this game tonight after reading this post. I sat down noticing that the blue pig had 18 free games. But when I began, it reset to 9. I managed to get it to pop after the blue was at 25 free games and got the gold pig to pop at the same time. I have no idea what the meaning of the gold and red pigs are. I was betting max bet, 600 units per spin. I was in for $300 and managed to win $100 in a span of 30 minutes. I learned more free games you have, the better chance of hitting the progressive, the mega, grand, and the major and minors.
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The games on the pigs are different for each bet denomination, so you changed from whatever was last played by prior player.
Quote: McSweeneyThis game definitely teases you with the Grand and Mega coins during the yellow pig bonus round. On several occasions now I've rapidly filled up all the slots except for the last one, and still had like 20 free games to go, and never got the last coin. I used to get a big adrenaline rush when I was only 1 away and anxiously awaiting the uncovering of the question blocks, but now I don't even get excited anymore because I know I'm not going to get it. I assume that the bonus round is set up in a way where you collect coins based off a genuine RNG system, but once you get to the last coin in the Grand and Mega, the difficulty in collecting the coin skyrockets and is easier to get if you make a large bet (which only makes sense since the Grand and Mega jackpot amounts do not increase with a higher bet; it's always a flat $500.00 and $10,000.00, respectively).
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That aspect is not dissimilar from many of the, 'Link,' type games.
Quote: VegasriderWatched a couple play the other night. Got up to 48 free games, they kept running out of money. I along with a couple of people were waiting for them to abandon the machine. The machine next to them became available so I started to play that. I’d figure I would have the best shot of hopping on that machine in the event they left. I could easily insert my money as they got up. The blue pig popped without the yellow pig. 48 free games would have certainly been able to hit the big progressive if they could get the other pig to pop.
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No guarantee. Last summer I caught a $2.25 at 27 Blue and ran it up to 51 before it popped, luckily with the Yellow. I was one away from both Grand and Mega after 20 spins and hit neither. Consider I had $700 in, I was lucky to only be a $40 loser.
Quote: IamSpartacusQuote: VegasriderWatched a couple play the other night. Got up to 48 free games, they kept running out of money. I along with a couple of people were waiting for them to abandon the machine. The machine next to them became available so I started to play that. I’d figure I would have the best shot of hopping on that machine in the event they left. I could easily insert my money as they got up. The blue pig popped without the yellow pig. 48 free games would have certainly been able to hit the big progressive if they could get the other pig to pop.
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No guarantee. Last summer I caught a $2.25 at 27 Blue and ran it up to 51 before it popped, luckily with the Yellow. I was one away from both Grand and Mega after 20 spins and hit neither. Consider I had $700 in, I was lucky to only be a $40 loser.
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I would hesitate to assume that the number of Free Spins has anything to do with the probability of hitting the top prizes. I'm not suggesting it doesn't, but I wouldn't assume that it does.
